Hardrock - 17-7-2008 at 02:45 PM
I am wondering about the different types of kites. I don't know the correct terminology but will try to ask a question.
Looking at the water types where you inflate the leading edge, I wonder how they pull and lift compared to other types like a Beamer.
So if you had an inflated leading edge kite in 5m and a beamer 5m, would they be about the same? I understand that 5m in one style like an Ace would
lift more than a beamer 5m but it would still IMO, be comparable.
Would that amount of difference change even more with an inflatable 5m? or would it be comparable?
SCREWYFITS - 17-7-2008 at 03:11 PM
This is a broad question... there so many inflatables and as foils some lift more than others... now... this being said, I'm under the impression that
a 7m de-power (foil/twin skin/inflatable) would be comparable to a 5m foil... as far as a inflatable having more lift in a comparable size foil (5m vs
7m) I would say yes you could ultimately get better lift from a good de-power... I would go as far to say the right 5m inflatable would have more lift
than a 5m Beamer, so in essence the inflatable would be less lifty with the bar out and more lifty with the bar pulled in... you might be hard pressed
to match a 5m inflatable to Ace/crossfire II/HAKA/Blade IV in lift but it's passable... the great deal about inflatables is you change the AOA while
you are flying and can make it a crazy lifty kite or a kids kite all in the pull/push of the bar...
good luck...
a good example Tuesday I was flying a HQ Crossfire II 5m and a Naish Helix 9m I could put the Helix strait up the window in 20mph and not take a step
forward and with the Crossfire II no way in hell that could be done and when powered up the Helix would out preform the CF II in lift by far needles
to say it is a 9m but I can have less or tons more power at my finger tips...
DenisLaMenace - 17-7-2008 at 03:26 PM
check this thread
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=5189
no rule of thumb, as there are too many kites with so many different features but in general:
A depower inflatable is less powerful than a depower Foil kite the same size.
And a Beamer is a fixed bridle kite, so it pulls more than a depower 5m like the APEX, which will pull more than a Waroo 5m.
Features that may impact the inflatable kite performance:
- aspect ratio
- projected surface (C-shape vs BOW)
- projected surface as surface distribution more centered (smaller tips), like the F-One Bandit which has a Delta Shape
- turning and flying speed to generate power
- size of leading edge (fly upwind better when smaller)
- vents like in th Ocean Rodeo Rise
and so many....
If you like riding a foil, and want to hit water, then Flysurfer is the answer....
speleopower - 17-7-2008 at 03:36 PM
I've been flying with both inflatos and fixed bridle foil kites and have found the following.
For any given size fixed foil kite an inflato has to be not quite twice the size to make the same "power" as the fixed bridle kite. For example a 5
meter fixed bridle foil makes the same power as a 7-9 meter inflato. A 8 meter fixed kite is about the same as a 12-16 meter inflato. It's not a
perfect thing but it can help some when choosing a kite.
Scott
flexiblade - 17-7-2008 at 05:10 PM
What kind of kites have you been looking into as far as LEI's (Leading Edge Inflatables), are you looking for pure grunt (pull) or lift? More
importantly what do you plan on doing with the kite, jumping, buggying, kite surfing? The information provided previously will give you some insight
into what size ranges equalize from one kite type to another but the only way to know what you need really comes down to test flying a range of kites
- hooking up with people on this forum in person (if possible) will help alleviate this - I and others have no problem in helping someone out in
testing the feel of our kites. Practical hands on experience will give you a much better determination on what you need.
Hardrock - 17-7-2008 at 06:37 PM
there is some good info here. I have got to hit the hay but will try and explain why I'm asking tomorrow.
so much to learn,
Thanks guys
ripsessionkites - 18-7-2008 at 03:06 AM
here is some examples:
Foil Size Equivalent Twin Skin Size
2-3 m2 Phantom 6 / Guerilla-II 9
4-5.5 m2 Phantom 12 / Guerilla-II 11-13
5.5-8 m2 Phantom 15 / Guerilla-II 15
Venom size LEI equivalent
Venom 19 Inflatable 16-17
Venom 16 Inflatable 14
Venom 13 Inflatable 11-11.5
Venom 10 Inflatable 8-9
Hardrock - 18-7-2008 at 06:32 PM
The reason I'm asking is that I spend allot of time on the lakes around here. Man made but big lakes. There's always wind. I'm wanting to fly and have
some different kind of fun while there. I don't get the water ski out much due to the pain I bring to myself in my old age. Jumping the boat wake and
cutting up to much always ends in rough wipe outs at high speeds. Plus the 454 doesn't care about the price of gas.
I'm not ready to go all out with a board yet and don't know if the lake would be a place for that. But I'm thinking some body dragging would be fun
and you might be able to wrap your legs around a foam rubber float and cover some distance. There's a point where we fly smaller kites that has a 7'
sandy drop to deep water, I'd like to fly and jump off that but not with my Beamer.
So just having one to play with and learn might lead to surfing. Might even get a set of Hobie Cat hulls and rig up something. Also thinking about
lashing two kayaks together, we take them a good bit.
From what I'm reading above, a 6 to 8ish meter LEI might be what I need to goof around with, learn to water launch and just have some fun trying
different things.
I know this probably sounds pretty ridiculous to you guys who are doing it up right but I want combine some flying with water and see what comes from
it. Always flying in a field under the 95 degree sun is a mother.
I really don’t want any more pull than the 5m beamer has. But you just don’t see used LEI’s that small on eBay to much, so that is why I’m asking if
the larger LEI’s would compare to it.
Thanks for the info, I think I can go a bit larger and still learn a few things.
But if you guys think I’m making a mistake and shouldn’t be wanting to do such things, let me know. I’d like to hear your thoughts.
You guys wrote some things I'll be coming back to read for years. I'm sorry if my reason seemed to simple for the information you provided. But it's
very interesting and answered my question and will help others starting out for sure. Some one could compile the writings in this group and have a
best seller. Thanks.
SCREWYFITS - 18-7-2008 at 07:41 PM
well you sound like you want to have any kind of fun you can dream of... I like this... but be careful... I'd say you are on the right track... A LEI,
maybe a lil bigger than what you state like a 9-11m hybrid or bow, bow being the fav, and try for used within 3-4 years (they seem safer and more
de-power)... and start off in lighter winds and make sure you know the kite and have the adjustments in low settings and work your way up... try and
start off in a wide open area, have friends there to assist you... side launch for safety, if you can get instruction, even better (recommended)...
I like your style though get whatever you can get your hands on and ride it with a kite... I'd like to figure a way to bungee kite with an ginormas
lifty kite... hhmmmm... just me being SCREWY...
Good luck and be safe...
Hardrock - 20-7-2008 at 07:29 AM
I'm going to have to get one. Was on the lake all day yesterday and couldn't stop thinking about it. I would be there today if I had one of those.
If you ever figure out how to bungee kite, I'll be your camera man!!! LOL
SCREWYFITS - 21-7-2008 at 02:03 AM
ooooh!!! ooooh!!! I found a new one...
"POWER RISER KITING" I came up with the name too... kinda catchy eehhh...
Check these out and imagine holding onto a kite...:o:o:D:D:D
Now we're talking...:o
It's my idea, I declare it right here and now...:D:D:D