Power Kite Forum - decisions. long thread...

decisions. long thread...

revpaul - 28-7-2008 at 09:54 PM

hopefully there is enough info in the following ramblings to get the point across.
been flying other types of kites for years. it has been a short time since i bought a buggy. everything is coming along nicely and we are hooked.
-brother has added Pansh: Legend 4.5, Ace 6, Ace 8 with handles and a bar.
-Nephew has added a FS Pulse 13. figures he may try some water stuff.
-I bought buggy (PL race) with 04 Ozone Frenzy 7.5.
I already have an Ozone Little Devil 4.5 with very little hours.
We all share our gear but we are not always in the same area.
We fly inland on soccer fields. winds are usually gusty (12-20 Kph) but not terribly/scary so.
Now that I have an understanding of de-power vs. fixed bridle uses, I am eager to pick up maybe two more kites for myself when it's just me and the buggy.
*I am not too fond of the Pansh stuff. Lots of pull but unstable near(and not so near) window edge. the term "folds up like a cheap lawn chair" has been used a lot. I will not lay all blame on the kites. None of us have experience fiddling with bridle(s).
I am thinking about the following stuff.
Adding a 2 to 3 meter and a 5 or 6 meter.
*HQ Beamers
*Ozone Cult or Flexifoil Blurr
*dare I consider a Yak
how much more pull would a modern 4.5 fixed bridle have compared to my LD 4.5 with same AR and with higher AR?
I figure since the wind is usually 12-20 Kph I could handle a higher AR kite, especially a smaller one which is why i looked at the Yak. I wonder if it would be too unstable (like the Pansh Aces. Not into jumping or freestyle, just going to point A and back on the buggy.
I have been using the 4.5 LD most of the time so far but it only goes well in the gustier part wind. maybe a high AR 5m or medium high AR 6m would do the trick. too much?
Paul

acampbell - 29-7-2008 at 04:58 AM

Putting Beamers in the same mix as a Blurr and a Yak is a funny combo as the Beamer is easy to fly and good in gusts but out of the performance league of the others.
The Blurr will do the better job of being the best of all. It is as about as stable and easy to fly as a Beamer (!) but with terrific performance, including upwind. Flexifoil claims racekite performance from the Blurr but I have yet to fly it back-to-back with something like a Yak or Nitro. (Anyone at ANABX able to?)
Another way they describe the Blurr is as being squarely between the Rage and Blade, without the agressiveness of the later.
The Blurr is definately not easy to fold. The few times I have luffed it such as when running out of room at the surf line on a deep broad reach, the kite easily re-inflated before hitting the ground and powered up smoothly in the direction anticipated- something I cannot say of other kites like Blade or Reactor (or Yak, from my little time with one).

kitemaker4 - 29-7-2008 at 10:00 AM

Have you thought about nasa wings. They are great with inland gusty winds.

Susan (npw goddess)

BeamerBob - 29-7-2008 at 10:07 AM

To add to what Angus says about reduced performance from the Beamer regards how far into the edge of the wind it will propel you along. The Beamer will have more side load than the higher performance kites. If you are trying to go upwind, you won't be able to get the Beamer as far around towards the edge of the window placing more load sideways on the buggy instead of propelling you forward. The beamer is fine if you don't have alot of upwind work, in fact mine is very responsive and quick to go where you want it to be, but you will quickly reach its limit if you need to aggressively work your way upwind.

so many darn choices

revpaul - 29-7-2008 at 11:39 AM

i considered HQ's Beamers as a price point/value not so much for pure performance.
i've seen the Blurr promo video and it does look great (as does the Cult). wonder when will they arrive abroad?
i want a kite(s) that I will grow into and not have to shelve/trade/sell it once i get a good handle on the sport.
i think it'll be a Blurr or Cult, 5m, but not sure about a 3m.
nasa wing come in 4 line?

so far, i like de-power/bars for standing/static stuff but prefer handles for buggy-ing. i will definitely try my 7.5m frenzy some more when i get more a better handle on buggy-ing.
thanks again
Paul

WELDNGOD - 29-7-2008 at 11:55 AM

I buggy w/ a 4.7 RAGE with a AAA kit on it. ( bought from flexifoil. does not come on rages) which makes it a very flexible range kite.There is a setting for high wind that takes a little grunt out of it, but it flys through the window faster and increases the size of the window ( better upwind performance). And you can get just as much power if not more by workin it through the window. or you can set it the other way and add some grunt( but you lose some window). It is my most used kite.the blurr comes w/AAA already on it, Im lookin at the 5.0 myself. I swear by flexi quality and flyability. If you get the blurr you won't be disappointed . I bet if you got a 5.0 blurr , it would be you favorite buggy kite. Anyway that's just my two cents worth!

acampbell - 29-7-2008 at 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by revpaul
i considered HQ's Beamers as a price point/value not so much for pure performance.
i've seen the Blurr promo video and it does look great (as does the Cult). wonder when will they arrive abroad?

Blurrs are here on this side of the pond.

WELDNGOD - 29-7-2008 at 12:37 PM

yeah ,I know . But now just isn't the time.

kiteNH - 29-7-2008 at 12:51 PM

I read somewhere that Ozone dropped the price on the Cult by 20% recently so you may be able to get a good deal on one. I've never flown the Blurr or Cult and I don't buggy so I don't have any idea how they compare though.

ripsessionkites - 29-7-2008 at 07:00 PM

if you want to try out a race kite, just for the sake of trying one ... hit up Prairewind on here. dunno how close he is to you, but its worth a try.

in no order, but these kites also fall into what you're looking for. i'd go a lower AR for stablity in high winds.

Peter Lynn Viper
Flexifoil Blurr
Ozone Cult
U-Turn Oxigen Pro II
Libre Vampir II
Jojo ET
PKD Brooza
HQ (dunno which one, since i've never flown one)
Radsail (same as above)

if you have lots of running room, i'd go race style kite all the way, because of the Higher AR it sits further to the outside of the wind window ... just point, hold on, and go!

just my wooden nickel thought

Bladerunner - 29-7-2008 at 07:31 PM

I might throw a Skycountry Reflex into the mix !
These are a real good kite that is proving itself around Vancouver. Unfortunately they aren't getting a lot of exposure elsewhere.
Being so close , you should contact them and see if they can pop you off a demo ?

What about Mr. Kite Rip?

ripsessionkites - 29-7-2008 at 08:37 PM

them too,

i'm not ready to start advertising Mr.Kitesurf just yet, until more people get a feel for the kite. i have sent mr.kitesurf some feedback that will help make the kite even better. i know DS likes them, since they have more pull than lift, perfect for the buggy. the kites are doing quite well over in France right now. best advertising for our sport seems to be more "word of mouth" than some girl in a bikini riding a buggy in a magazine.

what's AAA kit :^)

revpaul - 29-7-2008 at 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WELDNGOD
I buggy w/ a 4.7 RAGE with a AAA kit on it. ( bought from flexifoil. does not come on rages) which makes it a very flexible range kite.There is a setting for high wind that takes a little grunt out of it, but it flys through the window faster and increases the size of the window ( better upwind performance). And you can get just as much power if not more by workin it through the window. or you can set it the other way and add some grunt( but you lose some window). It is my most used kite.the blurr comes w/AAA already on it, Im lookin at the 5.0 myself. I swear by flexi quality and flyability. If you get the blurr you won't be disappointed . I bet if you got a 5.0 blurr , it would be you favorite buggy kite. Anyway that's just my two cents worth!

high AR for wider window....

revpaul - 29-7-2008 at 09:00 PM

my biggest obstacle/bummer/stall is the constant change in wind direction around here. it's not unusual for a change between 30 and 45 degrees every 10 minutes or so. usually changes back to original direction. it can change between 90 and 180 degrees in a few hours time span.

i get two or three passes on the same course/heading then stall.
i'm now trying to get a feel for when the kite pulls best while it's riding just ahead of me instead of simply picking a course/heading and sticking to it. tough to do on a field with a dozen sets of soccer goals and three sets of football uprights.

i figure a race kite will allow for a wider window to help stay on a predetermined course.
Paul

furbowski - 29-7-2008 at 09:28 PM

constant change in wind direction is something you can handle a lot better with a few more hours of flying time, it is frustrating, but what you describe isn't all that hard to deal with, I've happily flown much gnarlier winds, and I've only got a few hundred hours of flying time, all in the past year and all static, mostly on beaches.

AAA stands for Angle of Attack Adjustment, which varies the angle at which the bridle makes the canopy of the kite meet the wind. Your nephew's flysurfer does this on the fly as it is a depower kite (like the frenzy), but I reckon he's told you how much it costs! The AAA kit or bridle set up allows you to adjust the angle while the kite is sitting on the ground. My blade has it and it is like havng three different kites in one. the low angle has really good manners and stability and not so much lift/power and flies nice in low winds, the high angle has bad manners at the edge, not so stable, and huge lift/power and flies well only in stronger winds. The middle is a mix and that's where I usually leave the AAA setting.

lunchbox - 30-7-2008 at 08:20 AM

I've flown quite a few kites that you've mentioned. For what you're looking for I can definitely recommend 4 kites - Ozone Cult, Peter Lynn Reactor, Flexifoil Blurr and the Ozone Yakuza.

All these kites have pretty good to excellent upwind capabilities and have good to excellent stability.

I would probably rate the Cult as the most stable...it performs amazingly well in my inland gusty conditions and still has some kick.

I also like the Reactors for their stability and upwind performance and especially their price point.

I really like the Blurr....the stability was really good...maybe just a tad bit less stable than the Cult but soo much more powerful. I was really impressed with that aspect in particular.

Finally the Yakuza...well what do I say about the Yakuza that hasn't been said so far in other forums....This is my baby...I absolutely love this kite. I only have a 4.0m but even in winds that are around 12mph, this kite has some power! In higher winds, look out! The upwind capability is simply amazing and for a race kite has good stability. Probably the funnest kite I've flown.

...but in the conditions, you've described I would probably lean to the Blurr. Such a great kite.

HTH.

WELDNGOD - 30-7-2008 at 09:04 AM

revpaul this is a AAA kit ,40 dollars w/ shipping from UK. But I don't see em on their web any more. Furb, it has 4 adjustments bro', maybe the one you buy from them is different.It worked so good ,I need one for my 2.5 rage.

attachment.jpg - 33kB

WELDNGOD - 30-7-2008 at 09:05 AM

the knot closest to the kite is very low angle .This setting is mostley for bigger kites.It reduces the raw power of the kite,speeds up the kite through the window and goes upwind really well. on some kites this may result in less stability.( not my 4.7 rage)
the next knot is low angle ,the kite flies faster in the window and has less static grunt. the power comes from flying through the window quickly,it also sits at the edge really well and has good upwind performance.good for higher winds.
The third knot is the normal setting

The last knot is high angle ,the kite is slower through the window,but more powerful. the kite sits deep in the window( which is very small) and is difficult to launch also.
hope this helps.

furbowski - 11-8-2008 at 07:16 PM

hey WG the fourth knot is the first one you mention in your post, and very low angle it is, too, I had big loss of stability and don't ever use it! I use the middle two, and the high angle setting is max power, small window, very strong on the pull...

WELDNGOD - 11-8-2008 at 07:25 PM

Furbs here is the manual, hope you can read it. My rage flies great in high wind on the first knot,and will go way upwind ,ya just lose a little power . but if the wind is kickin it doesn't matter. Maybe it just acts different on different kites? But I swear by it!

aaa manual (Small).jpg - 24kB

revpaul - 19-8-2008 at 10:29 PM

interesting. according to WG's manual, i am a$$ backwards on my adjustments with the 7m Blurr. might help to explain why I am feeling the 7m is under powered vs 6m Ace (in low wind with what I thought was low wind setting AAA). I will dig out manual later but for now I assume the AAA is same for Blurrs and Blades.
I know, RTFM rookie :mad:

Paul