Power Kite Forum

3m or 4m first kite?

Alexwilson - 5-8-2008 at 12:14 PM

alright,
im looking at getting my first power kite soonish hopefully and have been browsing the internet for different types and sizes ect...i have had a go on a quad line kite in cornwall before so i know the basics and sort of what to expect from them ( i think the biggest they let me on there was a 3.5 if i remeber right... the 4m pulled me all over the place aswell lol )
After looking around i cant decide on one particular size. Everywhere i read people say 3m is a good size to start on but its likely ill only be getting one kite with my budget so dont want to go too small then regret it later on.
Im wanting it to pull me about and stuff and have enough power for lift for me to give jumping ago once ive got the basics down.
I live inland so would probably be using the kite in slow-medium winds mostly, mabey on the coast if i ever make trips there lol

anybody with anyadvise/reconmendations on the size or any kites in paritcular would be appreciated...i know there loads of these threads on here so sorry for being new lol

oh and lastly, my budget is only around £140
cheers

BeamerBob - 5-8-2008 at 12:38 PM

there isn't that magic kite that will be forgiving of you noobieness and yet be good for jumping later. The only thing you might regret is that you bought too much kite to learn on and you can't have fun with it or worse yet, you get yourself hurt. You really probably will get another kite or two though. I think I bought 6 or 7 kites in my first year. I've sold 3 of those for upgrades.

Bladerunner - 5-8-2008 at 01:02 PM

Good questions and good for you not rushing into things.
If there are any locals try and pick their brains .
Unfortunately you are going to have to accept the fact that no one kite can do it all. I think you get that already.
The basic rules are. A 3m provides the power and feel to learn the basic skills. Generally the best place to start. A 5m kite is about as small a kite as you can use when learning jump properly and safely.

As you saw with too big a kite at 1st you spend all your time getting yanked around and it takes a long time to gain full control of the kite and start learning. So unless you are big and have very low winds the 4m may just slow the learning curve. It will still be too small to do much but go through the motions and get lifted / DROPPED. 4m is also a bad size for re-sale. Beginers don't want it and folks step up tp a 5 and keep the 3 usually.

The best approach I can suggest is that you shop for a good quality second hand, 4 line, 3m kite. H.Q. Beamer in particular. Accept the fact that you will have to either move up or trade up. Most folks hold on the their Beamer ( or similar kite ) because it never loses it's usefulness. Re-sale of a good quality 3m is usually very easy and you can demand a good price. Lots of folks buy and sell 5m + kites so with time you can find a screamin' deal to move up to. You shouldn't have to throw in a ton of money to trade up and will have time to save + figure out the best single kite size for your area and you !

kiteNH - 5-8-2008 at 01:07 PM

How much do you weigh? What are the average winds that you will be flying in? Or what are the top winds that you'd want to be out in?

Neither a 3m or 4m is something that you want to be jumping with. I'd say that a 3m would probably be the better bet, but if you're a bigger guy or will be flying mostly in sub-15mph winds than the 4m may make sense. You really don't want to have too much kite when you're starting out so keep that in mind.

(BTW.....start saving you money......9 months into the sport.......8 kites):D

Alexwilson - 5-8-2008 at 01:14 PM

ahh i think im getting this now, thanks for the advise, i wasnt sure wheather a 4m would be any good for jummping or not to be honest but id read on the internet that it was possible, if its not safe then ill give that a miss and go for a 5/6m kite later on then.

I think ill take your advise and go for a 3m first then, hopefully ill enjoy it enough to upgrade ( im sure i will if its anything like the taster i got in cornwall lol )

cheers for the advise...ive been looking for ages on the internet for this info, found it here in 5 minutes lol

furbowski - 5-8-2008 at 01:22 PM

you could always try the pansh option and get both for your budget, i.e. a forgiving 3m (the legend) and a grunty 5m for a couple months down the road...

you'll need to set up your kites a bit, they won't come ready to fly, and be willing to mod and play with the bridles a bit, for some that is fine, for others a real problem...

also sometimes people have real problems with them... but the more you are worried about the money-hungry side of the kite game the more they are worth a look.

If you are in the UK you are in the land of pansh - bashers! They are def not the best, but do deliver a quality experience, their main failing is they do not come ready to fly and require some work to get them working well! A riskier option but may be worth it for the price factor.

Bladerunner - 5-8-2008 at 01:28 PM

:wow: WOW you are a refreshing newcomer !!!!! :wow:

You actually get it ! Even your 3m will allow you to go through the motions safely . It will lift you if you go for it ( or don't watch out ) so you can get it all figured out with minimal damage. Then as you see, a 6m may be a better choice for your location moving on !!!

I'll be happy to answer any of your questions and so will most folks on here. It's nice help someone do it right and love it like we do ! :thumbup: :thumbup:


Quote:
Originally posted by Alexwilson
ahh i think im getting this now, thanks for the advise, i wasnt sure wheather a 4m would be any good for jummping or not to be honest but id read on the internet that it was possible, if its not safe then ill give that a miss and go for a 5/6m kite later on then.

I think ill take your advise and go for a 3m first then, hopefully ill enjoy it enough to upgrade ( im sure i will if its anything like the taster i got in cornwall lol )

cheers for the advise...ive been looking for ages on the internet for this info, found it here in 5 minutes lol

BeamerBob - 5-8-2008 at 01:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by furbowski
you could always try the pansh option and get both for your budget, i.e. a forgiving 3m (the legend) and a grunty 5m for a couple months down the road...

you'll need to set up your kites a bit, they won't come ready to fly, and be willing to mod and play with the bridles a bit, for some that is fine, for others a real problem...

also sometimes people have real problems with them... but the more you are worried about the money-hungry side of the kite game the more they are worth a look.

If you are in the UK you are in the land of pansh - bashers! They are def not the best, but do deliver a quality experience, their main failing is they do not come ready to fly and require some work to get them working well! A riskier option but may be worth it for the price factor.


I will be the dissenter on Pansh kites. I feel like I can speak about them since I've owned 2 and flown 4 different sizes and models. Except in the most consistent of winds, the Pansh Ace will bowtie and fall from the sky if you get too close to the edge of the wind window. In smooth coastal winds they will be ok, but not exemplary. Every one I've flown has been sent back home with me not wanting one, or the ones I did own, I flew for awhile till I found something of a higher caliber that rendered the Pansh kites in my quiver obsolete due to inferior flying quality. Maybe with some tweaking and modifications, you can make a Pansh a great kite. I just don't have the experience to sign on as my own R&D department to make my kites fly well. I would rather those with alot of experience doing that figure how to make great kites. There is a family down the street that drives nothing but Kias. I have more discriminating tastes in cars too. I'm glad they make Kias for that family and others, but I'm glad I have other choices that better match my tastes. Pansh kites can add some ripstop to your quiver but many fliers move on after getting further experience. In other words, you might enjoy them as a second or third kite to gain experience beyond your first kite.

Alexwilson - 5-8-2008 at 01:47 PM

cheers for the advise again,
3m beamer it is then, now to search the internet for the cheapest possible price haha...theres no shops near in this area that offer anything remotely like power kites so ill have to rely on the trusty internet lol

As for the 5/6m second kite ( without jummping the gun ) which is better for low winds as everyday here usualy has a slight breeze but stonger winds pop up only the odd time a month really so id want one i could still fly in weak conditions?

Ill be sure to ask more in detail questions when it comes around to the time of upgrading anyway im sure lol
thanks

furbowski - 5-8-2008 at 02:33 PM

BB does have it right, in less than ideal wind they can be a real handful. With skills and modding they can be a different story.

And you are inland, so you will need a more stable kite.

you won't go wrong with that beamer 3....

as for the second 5-6 meter kite, I'd give it time... Research, see what is out there, and wait for a good second-hand opportunity, some very good deals to be had on used 5-6 meter kites like an ozone samurai on this forum for $300 USD. The trade in used kites is way bigger in the UK, you likely know the sites worth lurking by now...

hve fun with that 3m, if you get bored with it well then wait for a little more wind!

KiteProject - 5-8-2008 at 03:52 PM

Alexwilson,

Your first kite should be a kite that is easy to fly and will come in handy after you've learned your basics. You can't go wrong with a Profoil. They are selling at a 50% discount and are great kites for beginners. They are easy to control and can do sweet turns. They also pull a lot and aren't very lifty. I still have my 3.5 and 2.5 for teaching new kiters and just relaxed quad-line kiting fun -- other kites are a bit of a handful.

http://www.kiteinnovations.com/Profoil.htm

There are a few still available. You won't find a better quality, brand new kite in the market for this price.

Bladerunner - 5-8-2008 at 06:41 PM

The problem with profoils for you is shipping.

I think they are only in the States.

Also the actual cost of a Profoil goes up once you factor in handles , lines, killers and such. No instuctions either. Yes I know the come with handles but in my opinion the ones that they come with it only devalue the kite. The make Pansh hanldes look Pro !

Check out Flexiforum at flexifoil kites. You may find a deal + people close to you there.

Bigger kites are for smaller wind. Smaller kites end up being for big winds.

KiteProject - 5-8-2008 at 07:27 PM

Profoil 3.5 m selling for $105 translates to roughly 55 GBP.

Are you saying that he can get a better deal for $105 (55 GBP) which will include "handles , lines, killers and such"?

I frequent racekites.com and I have never seen a kite
with "handles , lines, killers and such" for 55 GBP.

I bought my handles, lines and safeties separately. He can get them used, cheap. Even with separately purchased handles, lines, my profoil came out ahead because they are so much fun to fly. Quality trumps all. :thumbup:

Postage to UK is the only factor that can tank this deal for
alexwilson.


Quote:
Originally posted by Bladerunner
The problem with profoils for you is shipping.

I think they are only in the States.

Also the actual cost of a Profoil goes up once you factor in handles , lines, killers and such. No instuctions either. Yes I know the come with handles but in my opinion the ones that they come with it only devalue the kite. The make Pansh hanldes look Pro !

Check out Flexiforum at flexifoil kites. You may find a deal + people close to you there.

Bigger kites are for smaller wind. Smaller kites end up being for big winds.

Bladerunner - 5-8-2008 at 08:10 PM

I think the Profoil is a good kite at a great price. I own 2 of them myself. I have plenty of handles and line sets so the arrangment is ideal for someone like me !

I think it's selling as kite ( and terrible handles ) only is a too bad.
Like you say you can go out and get lines + handles + killers + a stake + a DVD and get an instruction set from another kite maker all pretty cheap. It just needs to be factored in to the decision for a beginer.




Quote:
Originally posted by KiteProject
Profoil 3.5 m selling for $105 translates to roughly 55 GBP.

Are you saying that he can get a better deal for $105 (55 GBP) which will include "handles , lines, killers and such"?

I frequent racekites.com and I have never seen a kite
with "handles , lines, killers and such" for 55 GBP.


Postage to UK is the only factor that can tank this deal for
alexwilson.


KiteProject - 5-8-2008 at 08:34 PM

I hear ya.

Alexwilson - 6-8-2008 at 11:12 AM

after reading abit more and suff, i noticed size and weight play a big part along with wind speed, im only light, like 8/9 stone but the winds around here are very light...will the 3m still be able to fly stable in such low winds ?

as for the weight, that was just me wondering if id be able to move on to scudding eventually with this kite or would i need to upgrade ?
cheers.

kiteNH - 6-8-2008 at 11:25 AM

What is "very light" wind? At your weight I think a 3m would have you scudding at 10-12 mph.

furbowski - 6-8-2008 at 11:28 AM

you'll be able to scud, definitely, but you'll need at least 10-15 mph of wind, maybe a bit less. Also you might think of the ground, you'll scud a lot quicker on wet grass than on soft dry sand. A thread a while back mentioned "pop bottle shoes" with one side cut out from a 1.5 or 2 litre plastic bottle and the edges made a bit less lethal with duct tape! Put your feet in a pair of those and find some wet grass and you would likely be scudding as soon as you begin to lean back, say 6-8 mph.

You would likely be able to fly the 3m in about 4mph of wind, but you would not get a full wind window until 6 mph, power would begin to kick in around 8 mph, scudding 10+, earlier on slick ground, first jumps around 15 at your weight, big risk and teabagging around 20.

The stronger the wind gets, the nastier the gusts become. wind gusts about 25% more than average windspeed. the power of wind is proportional to the square of the speed, in other words if you double the windspeed you quadruple the power, so gusts of 25% give you close to double the power (or something like that, I never did get far in math)

from what I've observed, 5m seems to be about the sweet spot for getting a kite aloft in low winds, bigger kites are just too heavy overall and turn too slow.

The best possible in low wind is the bigger NPW 5's, as they are single skin they are very very lightweight for their power and can get aloft in next to nothing.

The 3m will do you just fine in 4-18 mph or so, with serious risk kicking in above 20 mph.

Add enough wind and any small kite will get you in trouble, have a look at the "what's the smallest kite you have jumped on" thread in this forum under "flying technique" Note the near universal acknowledgement of fear....

Just get the HQ beamer 3, I've never heard of anybody complaining about that kite! Has anyone?

Bladerunner - 6-8-2008 at 11:30 AM

I find that kites smaller than 2.5 or 3m don't exactly fly like their bigger Cousins. Very fast and spinny. Stick with a 3m !!!