getting closer

The new bugs takin' shape!

I'm gonna cut and re-mitre the downtube(too long),that will increase the angle of the downtube a bit more. But the rake is gonna be the same.

Cause I'm good

You're full of #@%$#! is what you are.

overflowing! :moon:

It's changed! And the rake is still where it was To answer your question, Layout and templates

Let me know when its ready for paint Ill come and get her!

no where near finished.

Yea thats a good price man. If I can get it done that cheap I would jump on it.

Understandable Donny

Quote:

Originally posted by WELDNGOD no where near finished.

What else is left? I'm not being a smart ass...just curious.


p.s. You're still full of #@%$#!!!!

Just have to wait and see

?:puzzled:

That is sweet work - I've welded aluminum in the past and found it one of the more tricky materials to work with - so again, amazing job. Nice design work - I like the over and under for the side rails and looks like you really made your front end adjustable - a footpeg hole for every month of the year.

I already have gussets made for the high stress areas, y'all gotta give me time . Much more to come I love to work aluminum, but it is finicky about contamination. You can't get it clean enough, acetone works best after sanding w/ flap disc though. New pic today

Lookin good Donny

Damn thats lookin good Donny. I think I have to talk to you about a small project too

scud , I see racing dirt bikes and mototcycles with an aluminum frame ,all the time. The PROWLER has a chassis made of aluminum. I see flatbed trailers made of aluminum everyday. Bet ya' got an aluminum bike in the garage( if not ,your behind the times) You would be a idiot to use 6061 in a welded application , as you would remove the heat treatment.You are right about the "pure " aluminum. It has no real value in strength ,until you combine it w/ other elements to make an alloy. From a chemical standpoint aluminum isn't even a naturally occurring metal(no one has ever found an aluminum nugget or vein)
Hey, have ya seen a steel or stainless 747 lately?

Dude , do you even work in the metal trade? "Strength through design!"There are alot of ways we measure strength. But I'm talkin' strength to weight ratio here. Sure , aluminum has a shorter fatigue life than steel. But that can be eliminated with good design. It all comes down to application. I'm not talkin about making aluminum bearings or axles,just frames dude. I weld on aluminum boats every day for a living,I'm pretty damn certain I know a bit about aluminum and its properties, and I didn't stay in no damn holiday inn express neither.

And I use plasma or water jet to cut with. Aluminum oxide melts at around 5000*F ( steel 1800*-2000*) , and is used in sandpapers and cutting grit. Seems to cut and shape steel and stainless steel pretty well too!:D So yeah, I can cut a piece of steel w/ aluminum!:frog:
I want you to go get me a piece of steel angle 3 ft long that weighs one pound.
Now go get a piece of aluminum 3 ft long that weighs exactly one pound.
Now lets bend em'
My money is on the thicker piece of aluminum vs. tin can thin piece of steel you would have to use.
We ain't building a freakin tank here folks! Scud, are you tellin me you know more about when to use aluminum than say HONDA, YAMAHA,SUZUKI. Tell ya what, when you get a motorcycle co. named after you then I'll believe ya'. Until then ... ALUMINUM ROCKS!!
Still friends dude, WG.
P.S. I'd love ta' talk more metallurgy with ya', but this is not the MILLER website ,it's the PKF!!! Back to the kites and etc... WG If it makes ya' feel better , my next bug is gonna be made from stainless! I already got the materials , well mostly.

*ahem* would it be profitable (in your eyes) to produce buggy's like this for prices below or near manufacturers?











if so, I GOT DIBS ! HOW MUCH!? :D:singing::duh:

Well what did you think I was gonna say lol? I don't want a Peter Lynn, I want a custom made, hand-crafted, WELD'N-GOD buggy! That would be a cool name no doubt lol

Nice pics keep us posted...

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Originally posted by TheNotoriousZ28 *ahem* would it be profitable (in your eyes) to produce buggy's like this for prices below or near manufacturers? if so, I GOT DIBS ! HOW MUCH!? :D:singing::duh: Well what did you think I was gonna say lol? I don't want a Peter Lynn, I want a custom made, hand-crafted, WELD'N-GOD buggy! That would be a cool name no doubt lol Nice pics keep us posted...

No one man band in his garage could ever compete with a production line, what you have here is custom made buggies, made to measure, not some average sized buggy that will fit a 1000 different size people...I don't know about WG but I take measurements, leg sizes, weight, hip sizes, unless I know who the buggy is for, in my eyes if you want production prices, you get a production buggy, but if you want something special, different and something that will fit properly, from the masses then you have to be prepared to pay the price.


take production cars and bikes, then take the hand built ones...OCC etc, you will always have to pay more for something special

Wish I could weld like that, the kind of welds you DONT want to grind down because they look better, I have to take all mine down to surface level....... And the spatter!!! THE HORRIBLE HORRIBLE SPATTER!!!!!

anti-spatter spray only costs a few bucks, works a charm. But I TIG weld my stuff ,so no sparks or spatter is produced.

I've heard pam actually works fairly well, any truth to that? I haven't welded since I last heard that. Curse you and your fancy welder!!! I'm sitting here with a 110v wirefeed arc

Quote:

Originally posted by WELDNGOD scud , I see racing dirt bikes and mototcycles with an aluminum frame ,all the time. The PROWLER has a chassis made of aluminum. I see flatbed trailers made of aluminum everyday. Bet ya' got an aluminum bike in the garage( if not ,your behind the times)

My point is not that they do not use aluminum in these applications, but whether steel is stronger per unit weight. I asked by which measurement of strength aluminum is 2.5 times stronger steel, what alloys are you talking about?
I have had aluminum bikes, but I do not like ride as it is a bit too stiff and harsh for long distance riding. So both my upright and my recumbent, up to date enough for you, are steel.

Quote:

Originally posted by WELDNGOD You would be a idiot to use 6061 in a welded application , as you would remove the heat treatment.

I guess most the Al bicycle industry are idiots as 6061T6 was the most common alloy used until 7000 series came out. 6061 is used in welded applications you just have to Post Weld Heat Treat, PWHT. If you would like to know all about artificial age hardening, I can bore you for hours on the subject.

Quote:

Originally posted by WELDNGODYou are right about the "pure " aluminum. It has no real value in strength ,until you combine it w/ other elements to make an alloy. From a chemical standpoint aluminum isn't even a naturally occurring metal(no one has ever found an aluminum nugget or vein) Hey, have ya seen a steel or stainless 747 lately?

You would need to understand a bit about beam theory to understand why aluminum is used on aircraft skin instead steel, but the simple answer is that in this application aluminum's lower density and makes it a better choice. Although aluminum is not found in its metallic form it is considered a natural occurring metal. Technetium is an example metal that is not naturally occurring.

Quote:

Originally posted by WELDNGODDude , do you even work in the metal trade? "Strength through design!"There are alot of ways we measure strength. But I'm talkin' strength to weight ratio here.

25 years as a metallurgical engineer. Which type of strength are you talking about yeild, shear, UTS, hardness, fatique limit, stiffness? Please tell me which alloys you are comparing and give the numbers.

Quote:

Originally posted by WELDNGODSure , aluminum has a shorter fatigue life than steel. But that can be eliminated with good design. It all comes down to application. I'm not talkin about making aluminum bearings or axles,just frames dude. I weld on aluminum boats every day for a living,I'm pretty damn certain I know a bit about aluminum and its properties, and I didn't stay in no damn holiday inn express neither.

I did not stay in a Holiday Inn Express either, instead I stayed five years in a university studying the properties of aluminum and steel and how design around their properties to achieve the required result.

Quote:

Originally posted by WELDNGODAnd I use plasma or water jet to cut with. Aluminum oxide melts at around 5000*F ( steel 1800*-2000*) , and is used in sandpapers and cutting grit. Seems to cut and shape steel and stainless steel pretty well too!:D So yeah, I can cut a piece of steel w/ aluminum!:frog:

Alumina is not aluminum, it is alumina. And the melting point of the oxide has little to do with strength of the alloy.

Quote:

Originally posted by WELDNGODI want you to go get me a piece of steel angle 3 ft long that weighs one pound. Now go get a piece of aluminum 3 ft long that weighs exactly one pound. Now lets bend em' My money is on the thicker piece of aluminum vs. tin can thin piece of steel you would have to use.

Ahhh, stiffness not strength. Actually the way you have set up the bet shows you do not understand how you set the circumstances where aluminum gives a stiffer piece than steel. You have to specify the geometry. Ever notice that you Al tube bike has tubes that are very fat. You have to do this to get the stiffness required

Quote:

Originally posted by WELDNGODWe ain't building a freakin tank here folks! Scud, are you tellin me you know more about when to use aluminum than say HONDA, YAMAHA,SUZUKI. Tell ya what, when you get a motorcycle co. named after you then I'll believe ya'. Until then ... ALUMINUM ROCKS!!

I know exactly the same exactly the same things as the engineers at Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki know: The density of aluminum allows you to make a section that has a greater moment of inertia than you can make with steel. Until you realize that it is the geometry of the hollow cross section that aluminum's lower density allows that gives aluminum a stiffness advantage not greater stiffness or strength per unit weight, aluminum s*cks.

Quote:

Originally posted by WELDNGODStill friends dude, WG. P.S. I'd love ta' talk more metallurgy with ya', but this is not the MILLER website ,it's the PKF!!! Back to the kites and etc... WG If it makes ya' feel better , my next bug is gonna be made from stainless! I already got the materials , well mostly.

I would suggest two fairly easy to read books on this subject: The New Science of Strong Materials or Why You Do Not Fall Through the Floor and Structures or Why Things Do Not Fall Down. Both are by J.E. Gordon and contain some pretty interesting ideas presented so you do not need to fully understand integral calculus and differential equations to understand these ideas. I would be glad to help with any points you have trouble with. Nobody likes to talk metallurgy, even other engineer's eyes glaze over at the thought of talking metallurgy.
Question for bonus points anyone know why austenitic stainless tubing is used in kite buggys?
S

Well I'd have to say because all 300 series stainless is considered austenitic , which covers most available s.s. materials , and they probably used 304 ( most common and cheapest). And because martensitic stainless would crack all to hell. And no s^^%, you have ta post weld heat treat 6061 after ya weld it.If I had access to a heat treat oven I'd use 6061 but I don't ,so I use 5086. The darker gray coating on new aluminum is called aluminum oxide! It has a melting temp of 5000*F , which is precisely why you have to clean aluminum to white metal prior to welding.It is what makes aluminum so tricky to weld. Alumina is what my damn gas cup is made of! You build your buggies , and I'l build mine. What is your beef w/ aluminum? Somebody steal your beer? As far as the statement about strength and steel . That is what I was taught years ago. It is just a rule of thumb like the one about fillet welds that goes "fillet welds should be half the thickness of the thinnest member plus a sixteenth. Anything else is added weight and wasted materials." Maybe you confused my handle "weldngod", and think I'm some "welding engineer". Think not!!! I am a REAL welder! I actually do it everyday. ANY METAL, ANY POSITION, ANY DAY PIPE OR PLATE!!, WITH A MIRROR OR WITHOUT, LAYING IN WATER IN THE BILGE , WITH EITHER HAND! AND STILL GET IT DONE ! X-RAY CERTIFIED when you learn to do this , I'll care what you think about aluminum

And quit actin like a ball bustin engineer! go build your own damn buggy or fly a kite!

yeah I did! I did it, cause I can!! Well ,that and because it is harder than this

Q. How does a pair of 70 ton tanks get to the beach?


A. An ALUMINUM hovercraft!

I think Scudley and WELDNGOD are both feeling the pain from not enough time in the buggy! :sniff:

Time to ride and stop the pissing match

Ron

Quote:

Originally posted by WELDNGOD no, I actually spend time welding my bugs. Each piece is handcut, cleaned and beveled,then I put it all together and weld it . Each one is an individual craft that is unique to itself and its owner. KD , It,s called composites.And it is aerospace tech fo sho! carbon fibre,epoxies,mylar. All cool stuff for construction.

Oh I def agree with you guys about the fact that it would cost more money. The quality of materials and workmanship could make it profitable enough for a smaller entity to compete if (that's big IF) there is a market out there. Just like Popeye brought up Orange County Choppers or the other countless small custom-auto/bike shops.

I sorta meant to ask like how much more would it be??? Say double maybe triple that of your mid-line 500 dollar buggy?

The thought of a custom built monstrosity can be appealing to some! You guys should advertise in Kite mags!

hmmmmm... buggy?