Kiteman - 28-8-2008 at 06:34 PM
Hello,
I'm new to the forum. Been reading lots of the threads here and it sounds like I'm in the right place. I've loved kites all my life. All types.
About 3 years ago, I got hooked on the idea of jumping. So I called up the folks at Into The Wind (the only catalog I was getting at the time) and
asked what was the best power kite for my weight (230lbs). They were hestitant to recommend anything (legal stuff probably) but suggested I get the
HQ Beamer 2.5 Quad line. Well, I got it and have been flying it off and on over the past couple years. Fun and lots of pull, but bottom line... too
small.
I'm not really into buggy stuff. Don't really care to have my arms ripped off in strong winds just to feel the pull. I just want to get some air.
Not a lot (I'm 51 and would really like to be around for my grandkids some day!) 3 or 4 feet would be great. FWIW, I'm in pretty good condition.
I was just about to put my kite up for sale, but thought I'd shoot off this message to this forum to see what you all thought. What size kite would
it take to get this older kite lover off the ground?
Thanks for your comments!
harddrive8 - 28-8-2008 at 07:17 PM
What kind of winds do you normally have where you fly? Speed? Inland/Coastal? These will be 2 essential parts of before good recommendations can be
made.
furbowski - 28-8-2008 at 08:39 PM
A couple of problems on the way to the quest for air...
Oddly enough, it's safest to jump on a big kite, like 7-8 m or so. However, with just a little more wind, one can get into serious trouble... The
big kites move slowly and so the jump is slower, but it's also harder to redirect the kite during the jump to keep it in the wind window.
It's possible to jump with smaller kites, but they move so fast when powered up enough to jump that it is really hard to control them safely.
So there's the big catch-22 of kite jumping: you need to learn good kite control on something too small to jump on safely, then work your way up the
kite sizes until you start doing decent jumps at around 5-7 meters. But trying to learn on those kites is next to impossible: I've given about a
dozen people their first powerkite experience on my 5m, and the only one who got anywhere close to controlling the kite reliably was a super atheletic
gymnast / skateboarder / wakeboarder of 13 years...!
Another problem: fitness. I'm 40 and among other things I was an outward bound instructor for 8 years full-time... I'm still pretty fit. I was
jumping on handles without a harness on my Blade today, nice little 4-footers, and I was pumped after fifteen minutes. Unless you're pretty
exceptional for 51, you'll find it hard to do even that much hard flying.
Yes, you can strap into a harness, but then you have quick-release failure issues... I've only been flying for a year, and my skills are not that
good, so it's a safety decision for me not to use a harness: I can always let go if I get beyond my limits.
Another problem: wind quality. if you have access to clean onshore wind, that is a big bonus. If you only have access to gusty and shifty inland
breezes, you'll find it much more difficult to find the kind of wind that gives you any kind of confidence to jump reliably (keep those grandkids in
mind, eh?)
Another problem: your ground. If you have nice soft beach sand, loose enough to be really hard to run on, that can be pretty safe. If you take the
kite-surf route, then you have water landings, but then also factor in the risk of drowning. If you're flying inland on hard grassy ground, or even
on hard sand beaches, your risks go up considerably. I was doing my jumping on hard sand today, and came down hard on my right heel towards the end
of the day... I'll be limping for a few days. A while ago i fell ten feet onto soft sand and walked away, the same mistake today would quite likely
have broken something.
Last thing: these kites do take folks on a bit of a journey, and you may not end up wanting to jump when you get the skills to do so. I know I'm only
jumping today because I don't yet have a buggy or something else with wheels to play with -- the skills needed for that are want i want to develop
now, not necessarily jumping...
But your journey may be different. The most important thing is to minimize the risks as much as possible, and one of the best things you can do about
that is to give this forum as much detail as possible about your weight, your location, your ground, your winds, and so on, and keep the forum posted.
plenty of folks here to help you out, many with skills that make mine look like nothing. I've barely gotten into the sport, and it's a fantastic
one, but it is risky, and it's really only a matter of time before I hurt myself badly... Be realistic about that if you want to play with kites big
enough to pick you up off the ground!!!
cheers, and best of luck and fortune...
furbowski - 28-8-2008 at 08:39 PM
sorry, double post.
Kiteman - 28-8-2008 at 10:02 PM
Thanks for the quick responses! I fly primarily inland (Western suburbs of Chicago, although occasionally I get to the Eastern shores of Lake
Michigan - Warren Dunes.)
I do most of my flying in a 15 acre park on the fringe of town. Lots of land away from trees. There are many days of nice, sustained winds,
particularly in the Spring and Fall. Most of the time however, gusty and shifty. Last time I had my 2.5 Beamer up, we had fairly sustained 15-20 mph
winds, resulting in very strong pull. I tried moving the kite from right to left across the low side of the window and then pulled straight up. Not
enough to pull me off the ground when the kite moved overhead. Low in the window, I could easily be pulled forward and tumble but I'd never jump in
that position anyway. I figured if the kite couldn't pull me off the ground with those winds, it most likely couldn't at all. You're right. For
this 51 year old, it was quite a workout and there were several times of "giving it a rest".
I feel I have very good control of the Beamer. Can move it anywhere I want. Even do the 'ole lighter wind quad line pin wheels across the low side
of the window. Quad came rather naturally after having flown 2 line stunters for years.
Sounds like what I'm hearing is that jumping isn't nearly as predictable as the good "You Tube" videos make it look. I do appreciate the concern for
safety. I certainly don't want to get into a kite size I can't safely handle. I'd be happy with 3 or 4 foot jumps at the most with modest winds.
Thanks again for the interaction. I will definitely keep posting and will continue to read these great threads. Sorry I didn't find this forum
earlier!
chris - 29-8-2008 at 07:10 AM
I would suggest an HQ Crossfire 5.0 (maybe a 6.5 based on your weight). It has more 'lift' than the Beamers, which is perfect if you are looking for
loftly jumps. I also like the idea of using handles in this application for the safety issues. As furbowski said, quick releasing from a harness is
easier said than done. You can always let go of the handles, or use the 'kite killers' in the case of the Crossfire. And you will need more arm
strength using handles for jumping...it is quite a workout.
Have fun and be safe.
Chris
BeamerBob - 29-8-2008 at 10:58 AM
Remember also, with the Crossfire, you can't pull the kite up over your head to rest. That's where it likes to have fun with you. It's called
"praying to the crossfire". And you might find yourself doing some real praying instead of just looking like you are. If you want to rest in winds
capable of jumping you, you will have to land to get a break or pull the kite to 3 or 9:00. I'll have to agree that the thrill of taking off and
powersliding a buggy is more of a thrill for me than jumping. Jumping is fun, but the thrill of the buggy is more sustained than the burst of
adrenaline you get when you get that up-up-and AWAY feeling. Both exhibit the power of the kites you are flying.
I wouldn't try to jump with that Beamer. You just might have the misfortune of it getting you off the ground. Now look at the VERY small parachute
you have to land with. Not a good thing.
harddrive8 - 29-8-2008 at 01:04 PM
The Crossfire would definitely be a good place to look for a jumping kite. They are pretty stable and easy to setup and fly. Plus, if you get a CF2,
you'll basically have 2 kites in 1 with the adjustment they offer for the angle of attack.
I'm still pretty new to the jumping side of kiting myself, but would recommend that which ever kite you get to start slow with it. Make use of the
fact you know how to fly your beamer in low winds, and try to start there with whatever kite you decide. The power produced by kites that are made for
jumping increases rapidly as wind speed picks up, even more so when it's gusty winds.
Kiteman - 29-8-2008 at 06:29 PM
Very helpful info here. Thanks! I'll start to research an HQ Crossfire, Chris.
Ya know BeamerBob, maybe I shouldn't be so quick to rule out buggies. Sounds like a real kick. I may join you and the others in moving away from
jumping, but I guess I want to experience that first lift of controlled air. It just looks so cool in the videos.
I like the idea of handles. That's what I'm used to and I'm sure I'll want to let go if things get hairy.
Good advice on taking things slow. At my age, I'm tending to do that automatically now 
Thanks for the info on the Crossfire not allowing you to rest overhead, harddrive8 That's what I do with the Beamer after a good workout with the
pull. That's an important consideration.
Great forum. Thanks all!
TheNotoriousZ28 - 30-8-2008 at 01:00 AM
u2u sent check your inbox.
speleopower - 5-9-2008 at 12:54 PM
Go with a Flexifoil Blade IV 4.9 meter. The kite has a lot of lift. It does't take a lot of wind to jump with either. Which ever kite you end up
with I think a 5 meter type kite will be your best bet. The Blade isn't the least expensive but you'll be very happy with it plus they have good
resale value after you've scared yourself:duh:.
After you have mastered the 5 meter and still want to jump take sky diving lessons. They are safer than kite jumping with large kites plus more fun.
To take lessons around me it costs about $1500 for all the basics.
Good luck and be safe-Scott
Kiteman - 6-9-2008 at 05:54 PM
Thanks Scott. I've read many threads about a Blade. I'll check em out too.
revpaul - 7-9-2008 at 11:26 AM
Hi Kiteman,
I'm new to traction kiting as well.
Buggy is way to go. You (and everyone watching) will be amazed by the kite's power as it hauls you around as fast you want, and faster.
I've never surfed before but I imagine 'parking' the kite (not having to work it in order to generate pull) just above the ground and hauling ass must
be similar to "catching a good wave".
*Ankle/foot injuries are the worst. Never seem to completely heal, too many moving parts.
I smashed my ankle/foot (moto-cross) pretty good and even after two/three yrs no re-injury my one ankle is still a little gimpy at times.
Grass isn't the best surface for jumping. My adult nephew (6'1 200 lb) snapped his leg clean in half (between ankle/knee) jumping with 4.5m LD and my
brother (6' 220 lb) 'tweaked' (he never went for x-rays) his foot/ankle with a 6m Ace.
I don't even scud that much, for fear of 'tweaking', but just have to sometimes
I'll jump but rarely and little ones only. (I'm 5'10, 170 lb.) After testing kite/wind for power I pretty much just pull some power, lift my feet off
the ground and swing along for a ride. I doubt my feet have ever cleared 3'. call me what you will i just don't want another ankle crash.
Water would be a different story.
As others have said you'll need a bigger kite (or two, or three....and so on))
I'd keep the 2.5m as a trainer, engine for super high winds, and/or engine for smaller rider in high winds.
Paul
canuck - 7-9-2008 at 10:27 PM
Lots of great info on jumping on the forum -
like http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=5242&pa...
look at this one too
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=1311&pa...
If you must jump, wear a good fitting helmet and plan to do a pendulum jump ( http://chris.m.whittaker.googlepages.com/pendulumjump ) instead of just being lofted into a Superman jump.
I'm 56 & 200 lb, and have been traction kiting for a couple of years. I agree with the 5m +/- size ; I need 10-12 mph winds to get off the ground
with my 5.5m. The trouble around here is that the winds are gusty and 10 mph wind can be accompanied by 20 mph gusts so you have to be prepared once
you take off that you might travel higher and farther than you planned or ever wanted to.
Learn how to control the power of the larger kite first, then try jumping. You don't want to get smacked by a panicked move through the power zone.
Our bones take a little long to heal than the young guys and you don't want a stroke from that blood clot travelling too far from the point of impact
...
Enjoy, be safe 
revpaul - 8-9-2008 at 10:53 AM
canuck,
glad to know another fellow kiter is close by.
we'll have to get to together once in a while.
Paul (in leduc)
Kiteman - 8-9-2008 at 06:05 PM
Hey Paul,
Sounds like you and your family have been through the wringer with those kites! I'm with you though. For jumping, I'd like to get about 3 or 4 feet
max. Can't afford to blow an ankle or knee. One knee is already blown because of basketball. Yeah, I've wondered about keeping the 2.5. Still
thinking about selling it. Don't think I'll get into buggies, but then again I've never done it and might really get a kick out of it. Who knows?
Thanks for the reply!
Thanks Canuck. Glad to know I'm not the only one in the ole 50's who still likes the thrill of a kite. Yeah, I'm definitely settling in on a 5m.
Looks to be the right one for my 6'2" 230lbs.
Yeah, gusts are the kicker all right. Even with the 2.5 Beamer I've almost been pulled on my nose in a 20 mph gust.
I've seen just about every jumping video there is online. The ones with good landings are what really gave me the bug. I recently discovered the
animated one though that shows a pendulum jump. So often the You Tube vids never show the kite position during the jump. This one was very helpful.
Makes alot of sense.
Still doin' some research. Hope to have a report for you all soon about that first air!
Thanks!
Kiteman