Power Kite Forum - Kite Trike - Wheels falling off - Need solution

Kite Trike - Wheels falling off - Need solution

lunchbox - 15-9-2008 at 01:32 PM

Did a buggy tandem at El Mirage a week or two ago and the bearings slide through the wheel hubs causing the tires to move/almost fall off. One tire went in (toward the rear axle), the other tire went away from the axle.

I've compared it against my Peter Lynn and they both have internal spacers, the only difference I can see is that the Kite Trike hubs don't have a little groove that keeps the bearing from moving toward the center of the wheel hub.

Obviously this is very dangerous and I want to fix it. Does anyone have any ideas on what can be done to prevent this? I'm thinking at this time, I need to get rid of the hubs and tires and just buy some PL hubs and tires to replace them. I've confirmed that they do fit but it will it work (i.e. I'm hoping its not a design problem that can't be prevented by changing the hubs, bearings and tires).

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

I'll try to include some pics.

Oh and btw, I've learned my lesson...you get what you pay for...never again!

Thanks.

Kite Trike pics 003-1.jpg - 250kB

silvereaglekiter - 15-9-2008 at 01:51 PM

I added fender washers till one of the hubs cracked forcing replacement of the back wheels

I am still using washers on the front

new back wheels

kiteon - 15-9-2008 at 01:52 PM

i think to make traction kiting work you need your wheels to stay on:singing::singing::singing::singing:

kiteon - 15-9-2008 at 01:55 PM

what is a kite trike

WELDNGOD - 15-9-2008 at 01:55 PM

unless you wanna go buggy scuddin' :lol:

silvereaglekiter - 15-9-2008 at 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kiteon
what is a kite trike

vary low end buggy

kiteon - 15-9-2008 at 02:04 PM

how much do those go for

lunchbox - 15-9-2008 at 02:04 PM

Hey SilverEagle,

I was thinking about using washers but, and forgive the stupid question but, you can't tie them down to tight or else the wheel doesn't move, right??

Also, where did you get the back wheels...they look great? Did you buy the hub, bearings, tube and wheel together? 12mm, correct?

lunchbox - 15-9-2008 at 02:06 PM

Quote:

how much do those go for

Don't do it man,,,stay clear of these buggys! I've already had to buy a new seat, new screws to tighten the front fork...

...but if you want to know...I paid $199 for mine...wish I would have just gotten a used PL or Flexi!

kiteon - 15-9-2008 at 02:19 PM

iv got a flexi beefed for jumping but i always get the question (whats the cheapest i could get set up for this) :thumbdown:

silvereaglekiter - 15-9-2008 at 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lunchbox
Hey SilverEagle,

I was thinking about using washers but, and forgive the stupid question but, you can't tie them down to tight or else the wheel doesn't move, right??

Also, where did you get the back wheels...they look great? Did you buy the hub, bearings, tube and wheel together? 12mm, correct?

their is jest enough room on the bolt for the washers + a 1/2 size jam nut to lock in the bolt

the back wheels are from northern tool complete with wheel hub and odd sized sealed bearings. I used bronze bearings as bushings to get it down to fit new longer 12 mm axle bolts. I haven't had to replace the seat but I have fixed some broken buckles

beachrights - 15-9-2008 at 03:36 PM

I just went downstairs and looked at the "Black Sheep" and the wheel assembly. I can not see how the wheel can go "inward". My axle is about the same diameter as the bearing and hub size so the bearing can not go inward on mine.

I do have a spacer washer on the outside but it was just to make the assembly tighter-not for an issue. Boy- First the front wheel issue and now this! Strange thing is I still trust mine! I feel I have conquered the front wheel and seat issue so I am in the clear.....or am I:?: ?

lunchbox - 15-9-2008 at 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lunchbox
Did a buggy tandem at El Mirage a week or two ago and the bearings slide through the wheel hubs causing the tires to move/almost fall off. One tire went in (toward the rear axle), the other tire went away from the axle.

I've compared it against my Peter Lynn and they both have internal spacers, the only difference I can see is that the Kite Trike hubs don't have a little groove that keeps the bearing from moving toward the center of the wheel hub.

Obviously this is very dangerous and I want to fix it. Does anyone have any ideas on what can be done to prevent this? I'm thinking at this time, I need to get rid of the hubs and tires and just buy some PL hubs and tires to replace them. I've confirmed that they do fit but it will it work (i.e. I'm hoping its not a design problem that can't be prevented by changing the hubs, bearings and tires).

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

I'll try to include some pics.

Oh and btw, I've learned my lesson...you get what you pay for...never again!

Thanks.

lunchbox - 15-9-2008 at 07:19 PM

Well, I managed to add one pic to my original post but not all three. First pic in the original post shows hub slipping over the bearing toward the rear axle. Last pic in the reply shows the other tire (hub) slipping over the bearing away from the axle.

...talk about a squirrely ride : (

Hey BR, if you take out your bearings and you don't see a little groove that prevents the bearings from sliding toward the center of the tire, I would assume that this could happen to you.

...Ride slow if you don't see the groove!

beachrights - 16-9-2008 at 02:31 AM

My bearings sit directly on the axle- I do not have the nut that is between the bearing and the axle. What is that nut for? My set up is [in order from outside wheel in] bolt,washer,bearing then axle. I will take a few pics of my setup today and post.
How are you getting the play to allow the hub to move? Can you do a setup like Silvereagle? I think that would solve the issue.

vindog - 16-9-2008 at 07:16 AM

Hi all I own one of these things . This is one of meny probs. check your down tube baerings next.

lunchbox - 16-9-2008 at 07:22 AM

Quote:

Hi all I own one of these things . This is one of meny probs. check your down tube baerings next.

Hey Vindog,

Are you referring to having the front wheel almost fall off as well? If so, that has happened to me as well!

lunchbox - 16-9-2008 at 07:27 AM

Quote:

My bearings sit directly on the axle- I do not have the nut that is between the bearing and the axle. What is that nut for? My set up is [in orderfrom outside wheel in] bolt,washer,bearing then axle. I will take a few pics of my setup today and post. How are you getting the play to allow the hub to move? Can you do a setup like Silvereagle? I think that would solve the issue.

I believe the nut was used to stabilize the wheel. Yeah, couple of pics would be cool. BTW, did you take out the bearing and see if you have a "groove" in the hub where the bearing "sits in". I'm going to run to Home Depot today and see if those fender washers work. It does seem that I would have to shorten the metal spacers if I did that however (only on the front though). If that doesn't work, I'm buying 3 new PL tires (complete tire assembly). Now if that doesn't work, I'm going to get rid of the buggy!

awindofchange - 16-9-2008 at 12:51 PM

What has happened is that the inside shoulder of the wheel has warn off or has been broken. This is usually caused by a bearing that gets hung up or stops turning (seizes) and the entire bearing starts to turn instead of just the inside race. The heat this creates melts the shoulder off of the plastic wheel. This allows the bearings to float in and out of the wheel housing. This is a dangerous situation and could allow the wheel to come completely off the buggy while riding. The only way to fix this properly is to purchase a new wheel. I highly suggest using the Peter Lynn (or flexi) wheels. You can use your same tires/tubes with these wheels. The big difference between the PL wheels and the Kite Trike wheels is that the shoulder on the inside of the wheel where the bearing sits is much larger (heavy duty) and will not burn off nearly as easy. If you check your bearings I am pretty sure you will find that they have locked up or seized, causing the problems of your wheels sliding around.

On your Kite Trike axle bolts you should have two jam nuts that sit between the wheel bearing and the rear axle. What this jam nut does is lock the rear axle bolt onto the axle housing so that it doesn't unscrew while riding. It is really only needed on one side but for symmetry and ease you should have one on both sides. The reason one side will un-screw is because of the rotation of the rear tires on the axle bolt. One turns clockwise, the other tire turns counterclockwise. Instead of making a reverse thread on one side they just add in a jam nut to lock the axle bolt onto the rear axle so it won't come loose. This is the preferred way of doing things that way if you do happen to sheer or bend your rear axle bolt you don't need to try and find a reverse thread bolt that would be very difficult to locate.

To properly assemble your rear axle bolt, put the bolt through the wheel, tighten the jam nut down so it is very snug and that the wheel still turns freely. Then screw the bolt into the rear axle. When the bolt is finger tight so the jam nut is firmly against the rear axle, tighten BOTH the bolt AND the jam nut so that it seats solidly against the rear axle. This will lock the bolt into the rear axle without applying excessive pressure on your bearings.

Hope this helps.

lunchbox - 16-9-2008 at 06:53 PM

Thanks for the detailed reply, Kent. I was going to call your shop and talk to you about this but decided to post it instead to see what others had done.

Quote:

What has happened is that the inside shoulder of the wheel has warn off or has been broken.

Now I can't say for sure, but I don't believe this is what happened. I think the tires/hubs were shipped this way and I don't remember the hubs ever having a place for the bearings to sit. Talk about a dangerous design.

Well I've decided to try a couple fender washers and see what happens. Unfortunately, I couldn't screw the bolt as tight as I wanted because otherwise the wheel wouldn't move...but it seems to be on there pretty tight...just have to check the screws before each go out.

I also won't have a chance to try it until maybe this weekend after my surgery heals.

....Now if this doesn't work, I'm jumping on Kent's site and purchasing 3 complete PL tire assemblies.

Quote:

I highly suggest using the Peter Lynn (or flexi) wheels. You can use your same tires/tubes with these wheels.

...and get this, the tires that came with my Kite Trike are actually smaller and only appear to be 2 ply. Think I got it from that same guy that was selling those fake Montana I's on ebay (Nova wings if I remember correctly)...it's all starting to become clearer now....

BeamerBob - 16-9-2008 at 07:07 PM

His buggys are kite trike knock offs. They are called "rockmaster" IIRC. Also, the Kite trike that Crieke has was sold with red wheels. Not sure if they are consistent about that though.

lunchbox - 16-9-2008 at 07:18 PM

Funny,,,I was just thinking how pathetic it was if my buggy was a knock off of a Kite Trike (no offense to the Kite Trike owners)...and sure enough, it probably is....I remember it being listed as a Rockville, I think...

Now, a knockoff of a PL, Flexi or a Libre I can understand, but a Kite Trike...geez I feel budget now...well I have learned my lesson, but of course now it's a mission of mine to make this thing work...stubborn I guess!

beachrights - 17-9-2008 at 03:03 AM

So you are saying my kite trike is better than another buggy?!? :thumbup:

Holy cow! I never thought I would hear that! :lol:

Sorry I did not take pics yet- I don't see me being able to do it today either. Tomorrow?

vindog - 17-9-2008 at 09:13 PM

Hey, Lunchbox
I am. I've had all the prob. listed above aswell. But I'll make this thing work write yet.

lunchbox - 17-9-2008 at 09:21 PM

Hey Vindog,

At least I don't feel alone in my problems as I did a few days ago!

....So I've got all the fender washers fitted and the buggy is now ready to be tested. Won't be able to test it until I get the ok from the doctor but I'm hoping this weekend.

I'll let you know how it plays out!

BTW, did you correct all of your problems. If so, how?

vindog - 17-9-2008 at 09:40 PM

Hey Lunchbox
Most of them. Fix one get anther I'll try to post pics Thur. after work Hope Doc gives the ok.