Power Kite Forum

Kite Jumping Newbie

Paul.J - 8-11-2008 at 02:59 PM

Hi guys!

I was doing some research, and discovered this amazing looking sport. A couple of years ago, I used a trainer kite in Texas, and it was absolutely amazing.

After some years, I realized I want air. I have no experience besides that trainer.

I live near a field that is about 5 soccer fields long, 2 wide. It is surrounded by trees. I also have a field that I use to fly RC airplanes that may work. (100 acres, gets windy).

Does anyone know of a kite that I would be able to get, preferably under $300, that would work for my environment. Anything more than 10 feet in the air would be amazing.

I seek the thrill of flight!

Thank you!
Paul.:puzzled:

Paul.J - 8-11-2008 at 03:17 PM

I have done some reading into these forums. It seems that people generally choose the Flexifoil Super 10. BUT! Those people were 'smaller'? I am 5'11". 140 lbs. I take it I am too big for this one?

carltb - 8-11-2008 at 03:45 PM

at the risk of getting slated for this, if you want to get air then buy a 4.9 blade (flexifoil) its not really a noob kite but it is a great kite. also buy as much padding as you can, helmet, knee pads, elbow pads, crash shorts, body armour, as, if you do get it wrong, its going to hurt from that height

fly safe in light winds to start

beachrights - 8-11-2008 at 04:12 PM

First off- welcome to the forum! Lots of good info here so keep looking.

What size trainer are you using and what type of wind speeds have you used it in? You have probably seen the potential of how quickly and how powerful these kites can be. That is where it gets dicey- see in order to get "flight" you need a kite that is least 4 meters. The issue is flight vs. landings. The smaller the kite the less "float" or hangtime you will have. Float needs 5 meters or so. Depends on weight, wind etc.

If you get a kite that is too powerful for your typical winds and skills you will either get hurt or get so spooked that you will be instantly turned off by the sport and will be spending your time at the local golf course!

I had a Flexifoil Proteam 8 as my first "powerkite" and it gave me good skills to work off of. I could barely jump but skuds were great! You probably could jump with a 10 but I think you would be better off going with a 4 line kite. Was your trainer a 4 liner?

A 3 to 4 meter is your best bet- I do not think the Blade is something you should even think about. These are very aggressive kites and not a beginners product! Sorry Carltb but you knew you would catch heat for that one!!:frog:

Try a HQ Beamer or a Flexifoil product. If you are on a budget then a Pansh kite- now I opened myself to heat on that one!!

Final verdict: get a 3 meter beamer- fly the crap out of it-gain skills- then sell and go bigger -repeat process till you are jumping with no issues. Then you will just buy and buy and buy and have a trunk full of kites like the rest of us bozo's here:o

Come on guys- you know we are all tweaked!!

_____ - 8-11-2008 at 04:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by beachrights
First off- welcome to the forum! Lots of good info here so keep looking.

What size trainer are you using and what type of wind speeds have you used it in? You have probably seen the potential of how quickly and how powerful these kites can be. That is where it gets dicey- see in order to get "flight" you need a kite that is least 4 meters. The issue is flight vs. landings. The smaller the kite the less "float" or hangtime you will have. Float needs 5 meters or so. Depends on weight, wind etc.

If you get a kite that is too powerful for your typical winds and skills you will either get hurt or get so spooked that you will be instantly turned off by the sport and will be spending your time at the local golf course!

I had a Flexifoil Proteam 8 as my first "powerkite" and it gave me good skills to work off of. I could barely jump but skuds were great! You probably could jump with a 10 but I think you would be better off going with a 4 line kite. Was your trainer a 4 liner?

A 3 to 4 meter is your best bet- I do not think the Blade is something you should even think about. These are very aggressive kites and not a beginners product! Sorry Carltb but you knew you would catch heat for that one!!:frog:

Try a HQ Beamer or a Flexifoil product. If you are on a budget then a Pansh kite- now I opened myself to heat on that one!!

Final verdict: get a 3 meter beamer- fly the crap out of it-gain skills- then sell and go bigger -repeat process till you are jumping with no issues. Then you will just buy and buy and buy and have a trunk full of kites like the rest of us bozo's here:o

Come on guys- you know we are all tweaked!!


+1

Dont get a kite and start jumping right away. you will get hurt.

See: http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=5587&pa...

I started with a beamer and still have it. Got a buddy of mine hooked on kites with it too and in high winds its great.

You have to get your kite skills down really good before you attempt jumps.

tridude - 8-11-2008 at 05:02 PM

welcome and what they said. We've had one forum member start jumping before he should have and suffered a broken tib and fibula.

flexiblade - 8-11-2008 at 05:04 PM

Here are a couple of prime reasons to take your time and to get your skill level up (skill level=knowing what size and type of kite to use in different wind conditions - and knowing how to pilot it correctly in those conditions).

These two video's illustrate people that underestimated the power of the wind.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaNALgZzlR8&feature=PlayLi...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0210yh3Ser4&feature=PlayL...

This video shows that it doesn't take much to get out of control and hurt yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3_6sewYpe4&feature=PlayL...

This video shows someone that knows what they're doing and is comfortable with the kite and it's flying characteristics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSBKfUfrCf0&feature=PlayL...


Having flown a Blade for about a year I would highly recommend this kite for only clean winds (Beach) and for someone that has mastered the basic skills of "power" kiting - not just kiting. Don't get me wrong on your wanting to do jumps - it is fun, but you have to realize the consequences for such fun - concussions, broken bones, even death can be a result of either just bad winds or an inexperienced flyer. Wearing a brain bucket and body pads is a must when flying inland on grass. Be careful - take your time - I like the pansh's for their price and not too bad quality - they will get you what you want.

DAKITEZ - 8-11-2008 at 05:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by carltb
at the risk of getting slated for this, if you want to get air then buy a 4.9 blade (flexifoil) its not really a noob kite but it is a great kite. also buy as much padding as you can, helmet, knee pads, elbow pads, crash shorts, body armour, as, if you do get it wrong, its going to hurt from that height

fly safe in light winds to start


Screwy and I have been discussing this kite also and I think we both agree we wouldn't feel uncomfortable recommending the blade IV 4m - 4.9m to a noob with little experience. The blade IV is extremely stable and if you put it on the low lift setting you can keep your feet on the ground. Then as we all know the kite will be great as you advance.
I don't have any experience with the older blades, but its my understanding they are snatchy. I have not seen this out of the blade IV at all .. even in gusty conditions.
With all that said this scenario never comes in play, because a noob can not fathom spending that kind of money for a kite.

Paul.J - 8-11-2008 at 07:21 PM

"What size trainer are you using and what type of wind speeds have you used it in?"

I have no idea >< It was a kite boarding trainer. About 1-2m? We used it on land, and it pulled us across mud pretty easy.

"HQ Beamer"

The videos dont make it look too good:)

"Pansh 6m Ace"

That one looks like good scuds (skids?)

I was actually liking the crossfire 4.0. It seems a little expensive.

Can someone give me a specific model, that wont kill me? Yet allows me to get air and scud? Thank you! Remember. Sub 300 would be amazing!

_____ - 8-11-2008 at 08:13 PM

The Beamer is a great kite. What vids were you looking at?

I dont think you will find a kite that will give you good jumps while at the same time, wont kill you (while starting out). A 5m+ kite is not somthing to make a jump to while only having flown a 1-2m trainer "a couple of years ago."

Did you actually see this,



Thats a 6m Ace in 8mph winds.

And this is a 5m Ace in my livingroom. 16'



and a 3m Beamer with my 5 year old. 10'6"



That may give you a better understanding of size. All of the kites mentioned in this thread harness the wind alot more than trainer kites.

But if you are still looking for a good floaty kite for jumping here ya go...

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=7676

Raphael - 8-11-2008 at 09:20 PM

You can see my jumping photo in the photo gallery. I've been flying the 11 meter Neo and jump 3 meters easily. I weigh 170 pounds, and I'm 37. I tried with the Apex 10 meter today. It is supposedly a kite for cruising. People will tell you all types of things, but the important thing is the tension on the lines and the size of the kite. You need to run almost straight upwind, but at a little of an angle, like 30 to forty degrees. Hold the bar to the right as you run upwind with the kite. Then, turn the bar to the left while still running as fast you can upwind. Be prepared to be lifted into the sky like I was in this photo. The same applies to kiteboarding. Ride at an angle to the wind. Let's say that the wind is blowing northeast and you are on an east facing coast. Ride on the beach where there is hard packed sand (near the waves). Learn to head downwind first (going south). Then, take the kite to neutral, and bring the kite down. Pull in the bar a little to keep power and keep the kite high. ALWAYS KEEP THE KITE RELATIVELY HIGH when jumping. Bring the kite from 2 o'clock to 11 o'clock, in other words, from the north where you are heading with the board to the opposite direction. You'll be lifted right into the air. A word of caution: if you want to continue riding upwind, bring the kite back to two o'clock once you are lifted. Don't do that too early because you'll crash. Another point: jump without the board first. Then jump with the board. When you jump with the board, just keep the board straight, but be prepared to ditch the board. Best of luck!

Paul.J - 8-11-2008 at 09:26 PM

Oh wow. Thank you very much Jason. Great advice.

The video I saw, I don't know, made it seem...slow? Or maybe unresponsive.

Those pictures make them seem much bigger than I ever though :)

Maybe I will do some more research on the Beamer. Is it fun to fly? Get good jump time?

csa_deadon - 9-11-2008 at 01:28 AM

First welcome, second, whoooaaa boy. :o

I think it's great you are so stoked to jump a kite. But please keep this one thing in mind.
We all started out crawling before we started to walk. You will hear basically the same thing from all of us. Buy 3m kite, or smaller, build skills, sell (or keep 3m kite), buy bigger, build more skills, purchase more insurance, then talk to significant other about hobby, then and only then think about jumping.

Seriously, build those skills. Most of us flew for awhile (me 1 year) before attempting to launch skyward. Sure you are gonna play around with the toe hop, we all did.

But be smart about it. This sport can bring a life time of pleasure, and friendship.
Don't be to quick to start jumping. Doing jumps before you know your own skill level, kite characteristics will bring only pain, most likely physical in nature. The tib/fib fracture is only the start. Me-left forearm fracture, seperated right shoulder, t-10compression fracture, just from being stupid, and #@%$#!y "It's just a kite, how powerful can it be?"

Funny thing is, if you live within spitting distance of any of us we would be more then happy to show you the ropes. We need more people with 5+ kite quivers at the support meetings.

last note: Beamer would be a good start.

beachrights - 9-11-2008 at 05:35 AM

In this sport it is MUCH better to be under powered and "fight" for lift if you are starting out. This will push your skills but not beyond your limits.

I still prefer to fly that way- if you know the max. that your kite can do in all different winds you can decide on what size kite to fly [once you get more than one]

Anyone can throw an 8 meter up and get 20 feet off the ground but its that one gust on the horizon that is going to come and snatch you so fast you will not have time to react- TRUST US- it has happened to all of us at one time or another. You absolutely have to respect the wind and its potential.

Do visual research- go on youtube and watch powerkite videos till your eyes are bleeding- check: kite jump, crash, and then watch different kite sizes using the search.

Alright everyone- it is time to breakout the "Tophat" video? I think we might need that one here. Paul- do a search on tophat kiteboard on youtube and you will see just how bad things can go. Its drastic advice but I think every new kiter should watch it- sort of like drivers ed!

BeamerBob - 9-11-2008 at 05:54 AM

I started with the Beamer III 3m. I was shocked at how much more power it had than the HQ symphony 2 liner I had flown for years. In smooth 8mph winds on the beach, it drug my 230 lb carcass all over the beach. If you look at my pictures in my signature, you will see my scud marks and how I really made my mark on the beach learning about the power that day. Second flight with the Beamer was back at home way inland. 18-25 mph winds. First time I launched the kite was dead downwind and it supermanned me about 15 feet and drug me another 10. All the kids watching thought it looked fun. My neighbor thought I had killed myself. I'm not sure when I let go of the handles but it wasn't soon enough. After a couple months of flying the beamer, I got a pansh blaze 5m. Way more power but still not a lifty kite. 3 months later I bought a used 5m Crossfire. It was lifty and I was very careful while flying it. Didn't try to jump on purpose. Bought a 6m Ace in another few months. Much more lift, tried to jump a little but it was slow to turn and I didn't get very high with light winds. Borrowed a Blade IV 6.5 10 months after buying the beamer and up I went. I had the skills and a quality kite too. I jumped probably a hundred times on a 3 day beach vacation. one jump was 8 feet high and another a conservative 12 feet. It was ok at this point because I had flown enough to know what the kite was going to do before it did it. This is key. You don't want to be 12 feet in the air and the kite is about to dump you and you don't even know the trouble you are in till you are lying there in pain. At this point, I reluctantly returned the Blade to Tridude who later sold it to Furbowski, and had my own within 6 weeks or so. I sold my 2 pansh kites to help fund the Blade. The 6 meter Ace I sold is the one that broke Dustin's leg because he admittedly did about 3 of the things I told him not to do for months. He did that the day he bought the kite from me.

Many thought my kite purchase and choice timeline was fast and aggressive. Many fliers are timid about flying a blade after years of experience. It is a quality kite but has the power of an F1 car. Tridude's quote was "Flown by few, Feared by many". Get yourself a Beamer III 3m. You won't ever be without it and it will set you up for lots of safe fun in the future.

beachrights - 9-11-2008 at 06:44 AM

All in favor of recomending the Beamer3 meter say "I" !!

Paul.J - 9-11-2008 at 08:20 AM

"I"!

At least, that is what I'm seeing. I'm inferring it is a great kite for...not beaches? I don't live near one, and location is a big worry for me.

Thanks everyone!

csa_deadon - 9-11-2008 at 09:09 AM

I :bigok:

Bladerunner - 9-11-2008 at 11:07 AM

I like B'Bob's explanation!

Once you are familiar and in control with a smaller kite you have set somevery important things into your memory reflexes.

By the time you start jumping you want to KNOW what the kite is about to do ! What YOU should do ! and how to direct it for the best / safest outcome. In my experience you are able to become the Master of a smaller ( proper ) sized kite very fast. It is only when you start controling the kite that you start learning. If you start out on too big a kite it will toss you around too much. You will spend a LOT of time flying but never really be in control. This is multplied if you are trying to figure things out on you own !!!! Far too many times I have seen or heard of people going straight to a large kite and regretting it !!! MANY have been injured and turned off of the sport completely. People make it look easy and it IS. IF you take the right steps getting there ! It is also pretty dangerous and the price you pay for mistakes can take you out of the game for good !

You don't mention if you have someone to teach you ? If you are on your own, the choice of starting smaller is that much more important. You will learn a LOT faster !

I have never heard of a person who has started out with a Beamer say , " I wish I had ignored the advice !

Most people hold on to there Beamer . Very few sell and so if you choose or need to sell one it is usually pretty easy and not too big a hit to the pocket book.

You mention trees around your space ! Wind will swirl like water in a river. Picture those trees as rocks and boulders in the water. Then picture what the wind must look like as it moves past your spot. Generally 7 times the height of the trees downwind is cruddy wind !

I Beamer !

BeamerBob - 9-11-2008 at 04:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bladerunner
I like B'Bob's explanation!
I have never heard of a person who has started out with a Beamer say , " I wish I had ignored the advice !

I Beamer !



this says it all I think.

Sandman - 9-11-2008 at 06:41 PM

I started out on a Beamer II 3.6m then bought a Crossfire 6.5m.

Flew the Beamer for a few months (2 or 3) and thought I was

ready to fly the Crossfire and do some jumping with it. I took the

crossfire out and flew it and it was fun, but I soon realized I

didnt have the control over the kite like I did with the Beamer.

Day 1 for jumping with the crossfire did not go well. From 12

feet up to the ground in a blink of an eye. I limped around the

house for a week and packed the Crossfire away with no lines

or handles on it to keep me from flying it. Went back to the

Beamer and flew it for another month before Harddrive8 was

able to talk me into flying the Crossfire again.

After flying the Beamer some more and getting to know the controls a little better the Crossfire is now a lot easier to fly and control.

Quote:
I have never heard of a person who has started out with a Beamer say , " I wish I had ignored the advice !


I must agree with this statement also. I would sell the Crossfire and the Buzz, but you better bring the Marines and the Army when you come for my Beamer. You will be met with force if you try to take my Beamer from me !



I will shut up now.

Shannon

_____ - 9-11-2008 at 06:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Paul.J
Oh wow. Thank you very much Jason. Great advice.

The video I saw, I don't know, made it seem...slow? Or maybe unresponsive.

Those pictures make them seem much bigger than I ever though :)

Maybe I will do some more research on the Beamer. Is it fun to fly? Get good jump time?


haha no problem. Its hard to get an idea of size without pictures ;)

You will not be dissapointed with a Beamer. I flew mine the otherday in 25+mph winds and had a blast. I was scared to fly it in 15mph winds when I first got it because I felt out of control.

Any kite will lift you if you make it do the right (or wrong) thing. So like stated before, its better to be underpowered because then you can get the feel of what you need to do inorder to jump but at the same time you wont get hurt.

speleopower - 9-11-2008 at 07:02 PM

A 3 meter Beamer should be fine. But if your really new and don't have anyone around to help I would go with a 2 meter.

I have a 2 meter Quadrifoil that I start people off with when they want to fly a kite. It has a lot more power than people think. Most people freak when they feel how much power is there in a 2 meter. Takes a few hours to get used to it.

Good luck and don't get hurt. Start small and in low wind. Kite jumping is an extreme sport. If you don't believe me jump off your roof and see if you can handle it. Oh, when you do jump do more of a flying leap with your hands out in front of you and don't use them to break your fall :spin: That's what will happen if you screw up a 10' jump while holding onto a kite. :shocked2:

The picture below is me doing a front flip while flying a Quadrifoil Competition 4.9 kite (almost the same as a Blade IV 4.9). I did break my fibia at this spot a few months after the picture was taken (Feb 2001).

Scott

scott elephant jpeg.jpg - 75kB

BeamerBob - 9-11-2008 at 07:55 PM

nothing at all wrong with getting the 2m. That is a fine idea. I was ok with the 3 because of my weight and experience with the symphony.

speleopower - 9-11-2008 at 08:44 PM

A 2 or 3 would probably be good to start with. Gotta get a good kite to start with. My Quadrifoil 2 meter is 10 years old and still flys like a charm!

Scott

kiteon - 9-11-2008 at 09:06 PM

i suggest a 3m beamer that is a great smaller kite that will give you a great safe ish start to kiting, new those are about $350 i have known lots of peope that have had this one a a starter and love it. very stable.

Chefmini - 10-11-2008 at 04:51 AM

My first kite was the Beamer 4m. I love this kite and has really helped me learn about power kiting. I fly at least a few times a week and for the 250 dollars spent on it a great investment into the journey.

beachrights - 10-11-2008 at 05:00 AM

Ok- we could go on and on here Paul.j and keep giving you what is basically the same all around solid advice- Start with a 2-3 meter- master it-build skills-gain respect- then move up in kite size.

So.... you asked for advice and by the looks of the # of posts above you have advice, horror stories, a couple of kite pictures, and a couple of bones that were originally one!

So what's your next move??:dunno:

f0rgiv3n - 10-11-2008 at 11:17 AM

I know we have a lot of input already but I want to put my 2 cents in :D... i have owned the beamer 3 and the pansh legend 3m(well, sorta, it's my bros). I cannot tell the difference, and I'm not kidding you. There is a SLIGHT difference between the two, but the price is the big difference :D. Just wanted to add that kite in there for one of your options as well.

Paul.J - 10-11-2008 at 08:38 PM

Wow! I did not expect this much input at all! Thanks for summarizing beachrights! Now I need to wait for Christmas deals(?) and find an online store to buy it. I'm sure I can do this part on my own, haha.

Thanks again guys!

Bladerunner - 10-11-2008 at 09:41 PM

A good place to look for reliable sellers is this sites good sellers list.
NOT ALL online dealers are reliable !
The for sale section is also a great place for well priced second hand gear.
As mentioned a beamer or 2 are available used right now and that is rare.

jockeys - 11-11-2008 at 07:59 AM

it's not as popular, but the Pansh Ace is an extremely lifty kite for jumping, and flies pretty nicely once you get it adjusted right.

at your size, you prolly shouldn't get anything bigger than 4m, I fly a 6m and I weigh 100 pounds more than you, and it can still hoist me up with the greatest of ease.

although if you're not very comfortable with powerkites, get a 2-3m kite (they make Aces that small, still very lifty) and get used to the way a 4line kite feels in the air before you get a big kite.

I was amused by your request for a kite that is powerful enough to get you off the ground but not powerful enough to kill you. They're kind of the same thing, you know :wee: