Power Kite Forum

Looking for a Peter Lynn

leebrianh - 15-12-2008 at 02:00 PM

Ok, with all Peter Lynn talks here, now I want one. The problem is that I don't know what I want and need some help from you guys.

I know Synergy is the newest kite in PL line but other than that, I have no clue what's old, what's new, what's good or bad.

What do you guy think is the closest to Synergy, performance wise, yet I can pick up relatively cheap? I guess I am looking for what was replaced by Synergy? Would that be Scorpion???

awindofchange - 15-12-2008 at 02:24 PM

for higher wind areas, the Scorpion is awesome. It is a higher aspect ratio kite so it excels in the stronger winds. It was originally designed for land use but has been used on the water by many. It is water relaunchable so no problems there.

If you are in somewhat lighter winds and are going to be on the water most of the time I would suggest looking into the Venom II. These are popping up quite a bit now that the Synergy has hit the market and many people are upgrading. The Venom I and Venom II are pretty much the same with the Venom II having a bunch of mods factory installed from people doing them on the Venom I. The great feature of the Venom II is that it comes with aluminum collapsible shafts, not the carbon ones that were much more prone to breakage like in the Venom I and earlier models.

If you find a Venom I at a great deal, most of the mods are pretty easy to install and it would be almost as good as a Venom II. Try to stay away from the very early ones such as the S-Arc's (840, 1120, 1510), Guerilla's (I & II), Bomba's, Phantoms, F-Arc's etc... Although ok kites (some pretty awesome), they are far from the performance and advancements of the newer models such as the Scorp or Venom.

That said, if you can find a Guerilla (1 or 2) or Bomba at an incredible steal (150 - 350 w/bar - lines), it would be a great kite to start with and a good bargain, just remember that it is a very dated design. The bar/lines will work for pretty much any PL kite, the bar/lines alone are usually around 350.00 new.

Hope that helps.

leebrianh - 15-12-2008 at 02:38 PM

thanks Kent. Great info! Looks like I am in the market for Scorpion or Venom II. I will use it on snow initially and if I like it, then on water later. I am thinking size 11M ~ 13M for medium to high wind.

So, Venom II is predecessor of Synergy? If so, I wonder why they discontinued Scorpion...

lunchbox - 15-12-2008 at 04:15 PM

Quote:

So, Venom II is predecessor of Synergy?


Yes.

Lots of good deals out there on VII's as stated above. Very durable and IMHO, one of the safest depowerables kites made.

Gotta love the 4 line simplicity as well.

KiteProject - 15-12-2008 at 04:27 PM

Wow, you too eh?

You selling any kites?

Quote:
Originally posted by leebrianh
Ok, with all Peter Lynn talks here, now I want one. The problem is that I don't know what I want and need some help from you guys.

I know Synergy is the newest kite in PL line but other than that, I have no clue what's old, what's new, what's good or bad.

What do you guy think is the closest to Synergy, performance wise, yet I can pick up relatively cheap? I guess I am looking for what was replaced by Synergy? Would that be Scorpion???

leebrianh - 15-12-2008 at 06:23 PM

Selling kites? neh~ Just started liking P4s. It will be long before I sell those babies, if I EVER do :)

Last Sunday, four of us went snowkiting and wind was super gusty. We all thought that Peter Lynn would have been a good solution for that kind of wind. None of us flew Peter Lynn before so I am thinking about picking one up and share it with them during winter. If I like it, I would like to fly on water as well.

So, back to Peter Lynn question, why they discontinued Scorpion then? or Is Scorpion a predecessor of Vortex? Forgive me if this is a stupid question. Learning Peter Lynn history :)

PHREERIDER - 15-12-2008 at 07:04 PM

venom ... the modded v16 i have now is tight and powerful.

can't imagine the pulley mod (VII) adding that much more.

if you like simple either one...really simple VI

13meter huge range esp. <180lbs. quick for its size and power

16 meter >190lbs. holy #@%$#! lift, float

since the colder weather has arrived i seem to have better performance than any pump kites around here, may be just coincidence?

leebrianh - 15-12-2008 at 08:03 PM

Which kite is more advanced/performace kite? (ex higher AR, more float, more power for size, better upwind...)

Venom II vs Scorpion

shuag - 15-12-2008 at 08:48 PM

There are two peter lynn kites on ebay right now....both are arcs though. Peter lynn Arc 840 and an arc 630.

carltb - 16-12-2008 at 09:21 AM

all you need to know about arcs..........
(well not everything but a hell of a lot!!)

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/mx5alan/arcs/ARCsetup_FAQ.htm

carltb - 16-12-2008 at 09:22 AM

and this aswell............

http://www.kite-fantastic.co.uk/articles/mx5alan/arc-wind-ra...

Bladerunner - 16-12-2008 at 09:29 AM

Here is another
http://www.chicagokitesurfing.com/arctips.html

Those 2 arcs on Ebay are 1st generation. Not exactly what you want.

kitemaker4 - 16-12-2008 at 11:09 AM

Hey Brian

Talk with AJ he flys almost every day with his peter lynn kites.

Susan (npw goddess)

leebrianh - 16-12-2008 at 01:59 PM

Thank you all. Now, I am officially in the market for Venom II 13M :)

awindofchange - 16-12-2008 at 02:46 PM

The Scorpion was a replacement for the Phantom. The thing to remember is that Peter Lynn has three lines of twinskin kites, one line is designed specifically for the water, one is designed for beginners / schools, the third is designed for land use. All three types can be used for either situation but will work a little better for the use they are designed for.

Typically, the land use kites are slightly higher aspect ratio and have better speed and higher wind ranges. For buggy use, the higher speeds are awesome. The Scorpion is one of those types of kites - pull the bar in under power and it feels like NOS and a turbo charger kicks in, totally incredible feeling. The Scorpion did not get replaced with the Synergy and can still be ordered. The problem is that the Synergy is so darn awesome that it makes it hard to purchase the Scorpion. The Synergy is almost as fast as the Scorp but delivers so much more light wind power that it is the preferred kite for most conditions. If you happen to be in a super high wind area and only plan on using the kite for land use then the Scorp may still be the better kite to get. The Synergy with the VPC line has nearly the same amount of depower so....if your looking to purchase new then everyone will probably suggest the Synergy over any other PL kite, even the Scorpion - especially if you are planning on using it on water.

So, to follow along the lines of the twinskin, For advanced water use, the Synergy replaced the Venom I & II which replaced the Guerilla I & II which replaced the S-Arcs. For beginners to advanced water use the Vortex replaced the Bomba. For land use, the Scorpion replaced the Phantom which replaced the F-Arc.

The great thing about PL kites is that they don't run with the rest of the lemming kite manufacturers out there and pump out a new kite out every year - which is usually only a graphic change and one other insignificant alteration. They only release a new model when that model is sufficiently more advanced and much more improved than the previous one. That works out great for us kite flyers in that we can look to purchase a newer model when our older ones start to get towards the end of their lifespan and know that the new model is going to be far superior to what we were using before ... well, with the incredible life span of the PL kites, you can upgrade in the middle of the kites lifespan and still recoup a major portion of your expense because they last so dang long. Just take a gander at the S-Arcs that are listed on E-bay, I am pretty sure they will sell for a couple hundred dollars but these kites are going on 10 years old. You're lucky if you can get a couple hundred for any LEI after just one season.

If you get the chance to fly one of these kites, be sure to do so. Remember though, they do fly quite differently than an LEI (the Synergy is the closest as of yet) and your technique and flying skills may need to change some to get the most from these kites.

tridude - 17-12-2008 at 05:10 AM

a few V2 13s over on Flexi forum.................or if you can wait till after the holidays, you can try my 16m Scorpion.............your call.......let me know!

leebrianh - 17-12-2008 at 07:10 AM

thanks again for taking time, Kent. Feel like I am a PL expert now :)

Thanks for your offer, Tridude. Very kind of you.

I will look into felxiforum. Will keep you guys updated once I get one, hopefully before next snowkiting session :)

tridude - 17-12-2008 at 07:15 AM

offer still stands if you cant find a 13M V2 you can fly my 13..................

kitesurfer - 30-12-2008 at 06:06 AM

I REPLACED my HEAVILY MODDED v1/16 with a Synergy 15. the synergy will also take the place of my v19. BUT....BUT....BUT...after 3 good sessions on the s15, i've found it's not as ppowerful as my v16. it turns faster and it fly faster but it dooes not have the rock solid, truck like pull. also, i never put my v16 in the water except for equipment failure. but i've flown this s15 into the drink probably a dozen times. It fly's so fast that i have not pulled up quick enough. but...it relaunches so easy! literally, once the kite drifts to 'dead down wind', it will relaunch in just a few seconds. when directly down wind, tug the two front lines a little and the tips open up and the kite flies. just that simple. my v19 i found to be too slow to make me happy. it's truly for big boys. i could use a big directional (ss glide) and go upwind quicker with the v16 'ALMOST'. so the syn 15 and my new 6'8" surfboard will be my lightwind ride--that's the plan anyway.

So i wold not "upgrade" my venom to a synergy unless you trulyy have the money to burn as the performance increase is not worth the money.

I started with the 840/1120/1400 standards when they came out and I made all the mods and bought the nnew models. phantoms were my favorites, looking back...

PHREERIDER - 30-12-2008 at 07:51 AM

AND I 'M HERE TO TELL YOU ALL....

THIS V16 HAS HAD LITTLE REST

A MOUNTAIN OF POWER

GOT ABOUT 30+ HOURS ON IT AND ROCK SOLID IT IS INDEED.


MANY THANKS KS

action jackson - 30-12-2008 at 08:01 AM

I've been putting the v1 19m tet through it pace the past week. Had it out from 7mph(kitecat) to 20+. I had one session with ground fog and ground wind speed in sub 5mph range. I added 13m extentions and got above the fog and was fully powered. It was so cool to kitesurfing on glass waves and boasting 20+ feet up. Landing on a glass wave was so cool.I am thinking about selling my quiver soon but not sure. I am thinking of upgrading to synergy when i am in New Zealand next month.....aj

PHREERIDER - 30-12-2008 at 08:35 AM

GLASS SESSIONS ARE DELUXE FOR SURE

I THINK MY LAND SESSIONS ARE JUST AS COOL I VIEW AS THE SAME ...JUMPS AND SWITCHES ARE ALL THE SAME NOW.

RECENTLY HAD A FEW FOGS LAND SESSIONS VERY SURREAL ONE I BELIEVE THE SUN CAME OUT AND DRIED EVERYTHING OUT NICELY WHICH IS A TIDY BONUS ON THE PACK UP .

IF YOU COMMIT TO SELL THE 9 WOULD BE CHOICE

CHAD

bloah - 30-12-2008 at 09:49 AM

any instructions manuals how to convert VI to VII?

PHREERIDER - 30-12-2008 at 10:19 AM

I REMEMBER BIG KAHUNA SAYING THE CONVERT WAS NOT WORTH IT.....

ANY WAY I DO REMEMBER SEEING ONE KITE-FANTASTIC I THINK PUTS A PULLEY ON THE #2 LEACH STRAP. I DO REMEMEBER IT CAUTIONED ABOUT THE CHANGES AND ATTACHMENTS WITH A VPC ADDED

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/mx5alan/arcs/ARCsetup_FAQ.htm

IT CONTAINS THE LANGUAGE "you WILL DESTROY THE KITE" ITS NEAR THE BOTTOM OF A VERY LONG PAGE, NO REAL DETAILS

IT'S A SCORP VPC ADDED TO A VI, I THINK

tridude - 30-12-2008 at 11:44 AM

Yuri,

heres the link for the updates. Phree has the external mod and TET on his 16m V1. Watched him a bit at Folly and its def looks stiffer. Winds were fairly low that day so I asked him about the TET but cant remember what he said. Im sure he will elaborate. Minus the V2s internal steering adjustment straps, this should cover it. I actually like the way my 13m V1 flies stock....................

http://www.instructables.com/id/Peter-Lynn-Venom-modificatio...

acampbell - 31-12-2008 at 08:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by action jackson
I am thinking of upgrading to synergy when i am in New Zealand next month.....aj


AJ, I should have a Syn15 in time for Treasure Island if you want to play with it...

action jackson - 31-12-2008 at 08:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by acampbell
Quote:
Originally posted by action jackson
I am thinking of upgrading to synergy when i am in New Zealand next month.....aj


AJ, I should have a Syn15 in time for Treasure Island if you want to play with it... [/quote ]Sweet! ..............aj










i

leebrianh - 4-1-2009 at 01:39 PM

Update:

I ended up buying 10M Synergy for US $600 from UK (I am in US). Kite only. Hope it's a good deal. :) I put a Flysurfer bar and lines yesterday and it seems to be working just fine.

Also, I just picked up Tridude's Scorpion 16M. So, now I have 10M Synergy and 16M Scorpion. I think that will cover most wind for snowkiting??? or Do I need something in the middle? If they work out well then will use them on water as well. I am still not sure if Scorpion 16M is good for water since it's "designed" for land but I am guessing as long as it relaunches on water, it shouldn't be a problem??? (me better than average water kiter)

These are my first two PL kites and I don't know what I am getting into. I am sure I will have many more questions later so would like to keep this post open.

Any tips, advice, or suggestions welcome. Thanks again for all your help. - Brian

tridude - 4-1-2009 at 01:59 PM

Brian,

You should def be covered from 8/10ish up to god knows what with that Syn 10. Attached a link for you to check your bar/lines/safeties. Man, when you go you def go big!

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/mx5alan/arcs/ARCsetup_FAQ.htm

carltb - 4-1-2009 at 05:38 PM

my full quiver is a 10-13-15-18 but the main kites are the 15 then the 10 so you should be ok with what you've got.

tridude - 4-1-2009 at 06:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by carltb
my full quiver is a 10-13-15-18 but the main kites are the 15 then the 10 so you should be ok with what you've got.


bumpage...................

leebrianh - 5-1-2009 at 12:38 PM

Question: How do you guys usually pack PL kites? With line attached like Flysurfer or detach lines and pack up kite only?

acampbell - 5-1-2009 at 12:46 PM

I always take the lines off and pack the wound bar seperately and just about everyone else I've seen does the same.

That being said, if you are not moving your bar from kite to kite, there is nothing stopping you from putting the kite tips together and rolling the bar (lines attached) up in the kite towards the deflation zipper- like I pack my HQ Neo. The backpack expands so you can pack the kite with the sticks/ battens in the tips,

Action Jackson - What do u weigh

Lanbro - 5-1-2009 at 12:51 PM

AJ - whats your weight...I have a V2 16 and 19..I weigh 205lbs..cant wait until I try them out to find out the windrange

action jackson - 5-1-2009 at 12:52 PM

190#

tridude - 5-1-2009 at 01:36 PM

either way.................in a hurry leave the sticks, if not flip a coin?:lol:

action jackson - 5-1-2009 at 01:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by leebrianh
Question: How do you guys usually pack PL kites? With line attached like Flysurfer or detach lines and pack up kite only?
I always leave the spars in and lines attached. I see no reason to remove when i am going to be using it almost everyday. I even left the kites assembled when i went to Florida last weekend...........aj

PHREERIDER - 5-1-2009 at 02:38 PM

lines off

ends together, leave the sticks in

roll it up, bag it

i use multiple kite bar combos

i have left it attached once but need the bar set up for different kite and that means i had to open it up

i am a sticks left in type flyer

bluefunelement - 6-1-2009 at 04:26 PM

I've told Brian I'm stalking him so he shouldn't be surprised if I ask to fly that Syn10m next time I'm down - I got an old Flysurfer Warrior 16m and Peter Lynn 840sarc to compare against my newer Ozone Instinct inflatable and I am flying these ancient foils on land and snow exclusively and thinking strongly about using them for some water use too - thought I'd choose one vs the other and buy a new model based on that but it looks like I like the Flysurfers for clean and low wind AND the PL's for high and gusty winds -

Why isn't there a warning on this site that if you think you'll save money going with a single quiver for land, water, snow you'll just end up more foils?

Taper123 - 6-1-2009 at 04:39 PM

I take the lines off and wind them on the bar. if I'm going out again soon I leave the spars in... for smaller storage needs I'll take them out.

(after walking out to the garage for a beverage)

10m Scorp, and 18m Phantom are stored with the spars in, 15m Phantom and 16m Scorp have spars out. Have two bars of different lengths so find it easier to wind lines on the bar, then rig for the kite being used. 10m Scorp is a buggy speed demon :) :) :)



A 10

leebrianh - 7-1-2009 at 07:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluefunelement
I've told Brian I'm stalking him so he shouldn't be surprised if I ask to fly that Syn10m next time I'm down

........

it looks like I like the Flysurfers for clean and low wind AND the PL's for high and gusty winds -


My first stalker.... I am flattered :) You sure can try my Synergy any time, blue. Just show up at Wildwood and hang out with us from time to time :)

I agree with you on Flysurfer vs PL. I just cannot find the bar feel of Flysurfer from any other kites, including PL. But Flysurfer kicked my a$$ many times in gusty wind.

DenisLaMenace - 7-1-2009 at 08:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by leebrianh
I just cannot find the bar feel of Flysurfer from any other kites, including PL.


Isn't that true.

Bar feeling on FS is perfection especially for P4

leebrianh - 7-1-2009 at 04:06 PM

My new babies :)

Synergy 10M, Scorpion 16M

tridude - 7-1-2009 at 05:28 PM

sweet, that was quick...........................have you unpacked the Scorp?

leebrianh - 7-1-2009 at 06:08 PM

ye, just took it out and packed it back. excellent condition just like you promised. Thanks :thumbup:

Hope to take it out this weekend.

leebrianh - 12-1-2009 at 04:40 PM

Question 2, check this picture out:



At the end wing tip, where the aluminum stick end, fabric is worn out. What would be the best way to fix it?

tridude - 12-1-2009 at 07:30 PM

a restitch perhaps........is that the Synergy?

macboy - 12-1-2009 at 10:40 PM

I had similar wear on the Guerilla but it was along the edge where the rearmost pigtail sews in. I took it to a tailor in town and after figuring out how to manhandle 10m of ripstop on their machines they were able to re-stitch and reinforce it for about $75.

leebrianh - 13-1-2009 at 07:55 AM

Yes, that's Synergy 10M. Previous owner already stitched it but it's happening again.

I might re-stitch. Hope my sawing machine can handle it.

tridude - 13-1-2009 at 08:37 AM

had a thought, maybe piece of black belt webbing (military surplus store) over the area and a restitch should be good as new. Ill keep an I open on the 15 after a few hours. I applied sailkote on my sticks (your sticks now) for ease in and out of the pocket. Im probably a bit too protective (nice way of saying anal) with my kites. 26 yrs in the aircraft business will do that.............................

PHREERIDER - 13-1-2009 at 08:54 AM

can't see the damage that well in the photo.

my V13 had a tear in the pocket near the leading edge end 2-3inches before the stick seat .

waxed dental floss, needle , small pliers, horizontal mattress stitch & 5 min.

not a problem any more and ...and ...it been tested up to 46 mph

leebrianh - 13-1-2009 at 09:01 AM

When the sticS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s in the pocket, I can see the tip through the worn hole. If I leave it that way, it will continuously wears out and eventually the hole will be big enough for the stick to go through.

I like the idea of patching additional material. Will try it. Thanks guys.

geokite - 20-1-2009 at 04:05 PM

There was a posting over at the arc users group (a yahoo group) that there was a production error on the Synergy; the stiching at the top of the pocket was supposed to go through the webbing. It missed, so one needs to stitch across the top, making sure to go through the webbing.

Steve Bateman