Power Kite Forum

Buggy Plans for Custom Ride

flexiblade - 7-1-2009 at 09:41 PM

To start with the plans below really only have one measurement regarding the length of the rear axle (which is optional as well - I just used this as a base number for a stable buggy). The reason for the lack of measurements is because everyone is shaped differently and therefore the buggy should be built off of your numbers not necessarily mine. The use of the design is really for how the buggy is laid out and its specific accouterments.

I choose 1/2" X 1/2" (with a 1/16" wall) mild steel square tubing for the frame based on 2 considerations: 1 cost, and 2 weight. Mild steel can be found at any metal distributor for a fraction of the price of stainless - and even cheaper at a metal reclaimer (scrap seller - usually by the pound not the linear foot).

The frame configuration relies on an up and over design (one piece aligned over another) with a one inch spacer placed at key stress joints. Another component to notice on the frame are the triangles formed where the high angle points near where your elbows would be. These triangles form a rigid center of the frame making it very strong.

Another feature that helps save cost (and hastle) is the bicycle head tube . I have purchased 2 of these from goodwill stores for about $15 a piece - which is to say I bought 2 complete bicycles for $15 a piece and cut these parts off and tossed the rest of the bike - I know I'm wasteful. You may be able to find these at a similar price or cheaper at a bicycle repair shop that has some beaters that they are willing to part with for next to nothing.

The seat belt webbing for the seat works great - mind you I placed a lawnmower foam rubber seat with a pleather coating in the cradle formed by the seat belt straps and I don't need to attach the seat to anything - it just sits there.

One thing I forgot to make a note of in the drawings was the frame brace - right behind the curved backrest - it's the same size tubing as the forks - 1" x 1/8" wall. This part is crucial in that it takes up the stress created by hard cornering that are transferred into the curved backrest - without this the frame will crack at the backrest and eventually break - the design compensates for this in that the rear axle will take up the slack if the backrest breaks and avoid complete structural failure of the buggy (this has happened to me - hence why the frame brace is crucial to this design). It also requires 2 2" X 2" X 1/8" steel plates on either side to mount to the frame.

Also included in this base design are a set of four plates working in pairs connecting the axle to the frame - these should be drilled out and have four bolts connecting the axle to the frame - this is so you can take the axle off in order to get it into your vehicle - can barely fit into the rear seat of a honda accord. There are 4 plates sized 1" X 4" X 1/4"

Taking a stab at overall costs -
(When purchasing metal try to avoid having the shop cut the metal for you - they will charge you anywhere from $1.50 to $12 a cut - always ask how much it will cost before you have them cut anything)

5' 2" X 2" 1/16" wall square steel tubing = $15
20' 1/2" X 1/2" (with a 1/16" wall) mild steel square tubing = $30
6' 1" x 1/8" wall round steel tubing = $20
7' 3/4' steel rod = $20
2" X 4" X 1/8" (enough for 2 2" X 2" plates) = $5
4" X 5" X 1/4 plate steel = $6
8" X 5" (or 4" X 10" - enough to make 2 4" X 5" plates) X 1/8" steel plate = $6
enough 1/4" steel plate to make 4 pieces of 1" X 4" = $6
3" X 8" X 1/2" steel plate (you can find small chunks of these if you look hard enough) = $6
16' of seatbelt webbing = $5
one foam rubber lawnmower seat = $15
3 standard 8" X 4" X 4" wheel barrow tires = $30
Bike head tube = $15
front axle 7" to 8" 3/4" bolt and matching nut = $4
4 3" long 5/8" bolts and nuts (for axle connections) = $5
4 5" long 5/8" bolts and nuts (for frame to swan neck connector) = $6 - these could be more if you go with stainless and also use lock washers
Water Noodles and tape or sewn vinyl for padding covers = $12 to $20

Which after all is said and done comes to a lot more than I thought .... $206 - $214

This will get you going and last you for years (mine is 2 years old with countless miles and no headaches.

One word of warning - this is not a freestyle buggy - it is not intended to leave the ground intentionally - or at least I have not tested what the stresses of such activities would do to the mild steel frame - I have a feeling it would fatigue rather quickly.

My buggy is built off of this design with modifications to the front end (to accommodate a bigfoot tire) and the rear axle (shocks). The connectors to the rear axle on my buggy help the frame break down smaller so it fits in my trunk.

This design is solely a base model and can (should) be adapted to what you think your buggy should be.

Other than that if you have any questions or comments or feel these could be improved upon feel free to throw them up here and I'll give them my full attention - Thanks for looking. Here' a link to the finished version of my buggy in its current configuration. http://s414.photobucket.com/albums/pp229/waxphone/?albumview...
The pictures will show a lot of details of how to that I didn't want to include in this - since this entry is already extremely long.

buggy layout2.jpg - 92kB

WolfWolfee - 8-1-2009 at 06:35 AM

wow, you did some work on this baby. I have thought of trying this myself but not much of a welder. How did you come up with your swan angles?

flexiblade - 8-1-2009 at 08:27 AM

I took a guess at the rake (the angle that the forks are from the ground), and then connected the dots to the frame. I always try to make the down tube coming off of the bicycle head tube at as close to a 90 degree angle as possible. The rest of the angles I work out on a full size drawing similar to what popeye the welder does with masonite board. To figure out a cut just do this - use the material your going to use for the swan neck as a template. Starting with the 90 degree angle coming off of the head tube take a relative guess at the next angle and then draw it over the previous angle - the dotted line shows where the cut will be - on square tubing the cuts must be made so that the angles of the 2 pieces are the same. If one piece is cut at a 47 degree angle the other side should be cut a 47 degree angle so that when it comes time to weld the 2 parts fit together perfectly.

swan neck .jpg - 40kB

lunchbox - 8-1-2009 at 08:29 AM

Whow...that is a sweet looking buggy....you got some skills!!!!

...geez, am I the only one on here that can't design and weld :ticking:

f0rgiv3n - 8-1-2009 at 09:08 AM

nope :( I've never welded a thing in my life :spin:

furbowski - 8-1-2009 at 09:33 AM

I've never welded either, but don't think it's all that hard... Nor that expensive... this is making me rethink just waiting til I have the cash...

Nice post flexi :bigok:

edit: what would the ...erm... big tool list be?

I'm guessing
--small electric welder
--cutoff saw
--decent drill

edit #2: how bad is the learning curve for doing servicable welds -- not talking PTW craftmanship here... in other words -- I taught myself to fly kites, is it reasonable to expect I can teach myself welding?

semi hijack, hope you don't mind FB...

BeamerBob - 8-1-2009 at 09:42 AM

There's a HUGE gap between being able to make two pieces of metal stick together and actually making a good weld that will last and look good at the same time. I'm really in awe of someone that can "be the weld".

WolfWolfee - 8-1-2009 at 04:40 PM

BeamerBob see your getting a Reactor 4.9M got tell you, your gonna love it one of my favorite kites.

flexiblade - 8-1-2009 at 09:29 PM

On the cheap you could get an oxy acetylene rig - will deliver clean welds that will hold nicely - a small rig will cost anywhere from $100 to $300 depending on the bells and whistles. I'm actually getting a little ahead of myself though - If you're interested and have the time I would suggest taking a welding class at a community college or an adult school class that are sometimes offered at high schools. The college course would probably have a much better selection of gear available to use. If you buy a welder learning to use it can be frustrating and dangerous without proper supervision. Taking a class will give you the knowledge to do almost anything - oxy - mig - tig - stick - all have their place for different jobs. It is a bit of a commitment but the results are very nice - I couldn't imagine having to wait and buy a buggy - think about this furbowski - the buggy doesn't have to made out of metal. I've seen some pretty decent wooden buggies - fiberglass could work in conjunction with a wood frame. It's really up to your imagination and your skills at problem solving. There is always a way.

furbowski - 8-1-2009 at 09:47 PM

I'm getting sick and tired of "having to wait and buy a buggy" -- very true. I've done just about all I can with my skills static, and the brief try i had once last summer showed me just how much that static flying is the tip of a huge iceberg of skill and learning only accessible by finding some way to move across the earth / water and hold a line while doing so...

Thanks for your words, I may not jump on welding (I am a bit prone to sudden fits of irrational enthusiasm :Ange09: :lol: ) but I'll figure out a way...

And best of luck with your ongoing wind adventures...!

flexiblade - 8-1-2009 at 10:11 PM

Thanks - I just need some wind - it's been still here for the past week and before that 3 weeks - Looks like we may be in for a drought if we don't get some storms and water soon.

lunchbox - 8-1-2009 at 10:46 PM

Quote:

BeamerBob see your getting a Reactor 4.9M got tell you, your gonna love it one of my favorite kites.


Oh yeah...ditto that...love my Reactors and my 4.9 is my most heavily used kite...stable, powerful, good upwind...Enjoy!!!

Quote:

I'm getting sick and tired of "having to wait and buy a buggy" -- very true. I've done just about all I can with my skills static, and the brief try i had once last summer showed me just how much that static flying is the tip of a huge iceberg of skill and learning only accessible by finding some way to move across the earth / water and hold a line while doing so...


Furb...you got to get yourself a buggy...awesome fun...you'll never just want to static fly again :yes:

EOHJ!!!

DAKITEZ - 9-1-2009 at 01:53 AM

Kind of a hijack, but not really. Flexi is this the first generation of the lay-z-boy? If so look how far you have come :wow:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VU3RYHDIbD8



BeamerBob - 9-1-2009 at 05:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by WolfWolfee
BeamerBob see your getting a Reactor 4.9M got tell you, your gonna love it one of my favorite kites.


Yes, I've heard a select few that know say the same thing. High performance but friendly too. I imagine it will be my go-to kite in those middle winds.

Quote:
Originally posted by furbowski
I may not jump on welding (I am a bit prone to sudden fits of irrational enthusiasm :Ange09: :lol: )


That's just funny. If my wife saw that she would give me one of those looks Ray Romano (Everbody loves Raymond) would get from his wife everytime he says something he should've only thought and not said.

flexiblade - 9-1-2009 at 06:35 AM

thanks DAKITEZ - that takes me back - that video was made about a month after I put the first generation together - and yes it has come a long way. not to be rude but you guys could be u2uing that stuff about the reactor - or post it under kites.

popeyethewelder - 9-1-2009 at 01:39 PM

Nice work Flexiblade

might be a good idea to keep the buggy plans threads altogether for others to use as a reference


Buggy Plans

WELDNGOD - 9-1-2009 at 03:51 PM

Furbs, Metal Inert Gas ( GMAW )is easier to learn than stick welding (Shielded Metal Arc Welding) . When you use wire ,it is easier to weld thin stuff too. You can DOT weld it by pulling the trigger for 1/2 a sec. then move 1/16 " and zap it again, do this repeatedly.But make sure you give a second or two between zaps. When you get used to it ,you can tell by color when to zap again. This method works on corners ,butts,edges, gaps, sheet metal(gotta be quick and allow cooling between zaps) If anyone needs some weldn tips, or advice on weldn eqip. just ask the "weldngod" ,that's what I'm here for.:ninja:
hijack over

furbowski - 9-1-2009 at 04:15 PM

1001 posts for ya,

and thanks for the words...

I like flexi's plans, seems set up for a simple straightforwards build -- square sections, straight cuts, no bendy spaghetti tubing... seems that the headstock is the hardest part.

flexiblade - 9-1-2009 at 08:20 PM

simplicity and cost effectiveness were my goals at the onset - the headstock isn't really all that tricky here's a breakdown of how to get it off the bike -

- First unscrew the hex screw in the middle of the handle bars with an alan wrench and remove the handle bars
- Next hack off the lower portion of the forks directly under the headstock - a sawsall works wel for this
- Then weld a 1/4" plate to the bottom of the headstock. Now your ready to connect the swan neck and the buggy forks

head tube.jpg - 105kB

cametal - 15-1-2009 at 07:16 PM

I've had good luck with the bicycle headset. Even though I machined out a piece of stainless for the bearing cups I still used an old fork for the inside.

10180221-PICT1819_PICT1819sm.jpg - 200kB

flexiblade - 15-1-2009 at 07:30 PM

Beautiful - I really like the reinforcing plates - what is that 1/2" plate? That looks built for a couple of lifetimes use - excellent work. You can post the pic by clicking on the edit icon in the upper right part of your post then go down and there will be a browse button in which to add your pic.

WELDNGOD - 22-1-2009 at 03:49 PM

Flexi, Never Oxy-acetylene weld steel that needs strength. You will anneal it (make very ductile). That will bend easy. The new hard wire MIG welders are easy to use,they even got wire that doesn't need sheilding gas( argon or CO2) .It's called innershield flux-core.If any newbie builders need welding help or info ,don't hesitate to call upon the one they call the "weldngod". There isnt a machine I can't run or a process I can't do, except DW. (detonation welding) That is when they use explosives to make Bi-metallic plate i.e. steel/aluminum.

flexiblade - 22-1-2009 at 10:13 PM

Can you shock it in water or oil when the weld is still glowing or does it not matter at all with oxy-acetylene?

WELDNGOD - 23-1-2009 at 03:52 PM

That would be hardening, and that would be bad also. Too brittle ,sooner or later it would crack all to hell. In order to post weld heat treat you would have to bring it up to a very high temp. and hold it for a length of time ,then bring the temp down very slowly . It is not something you or I could do. You want your metal to be strong w/ a little flex, not soft and malleable or hard and brittle.

flexiblade - 23-1-2009 at 10:59 PM

If I weld two pieces of steel and let the weld cool at its own rate in room temperature does it become too mailable? In that regard how do you deal with welds, such as steel (mild/stainless) in terms of keeping a balance between strength and flexibility? I use primarily a tig welder for all my welding - is there a temperature color I should be looking for or will hot passes help in creating a more uniform weld? Thanks for the input.

WELDNGOD - 24-1-2009 at 05:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by flexiblade
If I weld two pieces of steel and let the weld cool at its own rate in room temperature does it become too mailable? In that regard how do you deal with welds, such as steel (mild/stainless) in terms of keeping a balance between strength and flexibility? I use primarily a tig welder for all my welding - is there a temperature color I should be looking for or will hot passes help in creating a more uniform weld? Thanks for the input.



Good question dude. No ,if you weld a joint and just let it cool on its own ,it will not be malleable . You dont want a weld to cool too fast or it will crack. Metal expands as it melts and as it cools it shrinks ,it always shrinks more than it expands and this creates the pull that warps material being welded . The more you weld ,the more it pulls. if it cools too fast it starts contracting too hard before it is out of liquidus state it causes a crack. You have to control heat input to minimize warpage.
One method is the BACK STEP method You start a weld say 6 in. from say end of tee being welded to a plate. weld to the end and then go 6 in. from beginning of first step and weld towards that beginning, then so on and so on until you reach the end. Basically thismakes your heat progression the opposite of your travel direction.You are always starting on cooler metal traveling towards the hotter metal, this keeps it from getting hotter and hotter. And warping more and more.

If you cut a cross section through a weld,you can see the metal that was molten( filler wire) and what wasn't molten( base metal).

In between the two parts is a very thin area called the Heat Affected Zone.This metal got hot almost hot enough to melt , but not quite. It is the weakest part of a weld. The smaller you make that area the stronger your weld. In order to do this you gotta control your heat input. Ways to do that are: Don't weld with to many amps for the given thickness of material Thin metal can't handle as much thermal input as thick metal as it doesn't have as much mass to absorb and disperse it.

DO NOT EXCEED INTERPASS TEMP OF 300* F That means after you run a bead and stop, don't make another pass until it is below 300*. There are thermal crayons that melt at different temps, you can get em at any welder supply. They are called TEMPSTICKS You just touch the surface with it ,if it melts any ,it is hotter than designated temp.


STAINLESS needs to be weld as w/ as little heat input as possible just enough break it all down. And don't travel too slow if your puddle starts growin back off the heat or speed up. Stainless done right ( low heat)should have a beautiful blue/red/goldish look. Done wrong (high heat) it has a dull/blackened/burnt look .



Hope that helps any potential buggy builders out there. Always remember that when you build what you ride , you are literally putting your life in your own hands.

flexiblade - 25-1-2009 at 06:38 AM

great info - I will be watching my stainless technique a little closer from now on. thanks again.

SCREWYFITS - 25-1-2009 at 05:00 PM

I'm in welding class now... I've got 2 days in so far and I'm excited... mostly TIG but overall its the big picture... Weldngod and Popeye have inspired me... Keep an eye out for that Alum Bug I've talked about... hope it makes it to NABX...

WELDNGOD - 25-1-2009 at 07:42 PM

Good luck Screwy, get up w/ me when you start the alloy buggy. I am an alloy specialist,90% of what I weld is aluminum,stainless, copper-nickel,nickel-copper, bronze. Very little steel anymore, since I left the ships.( I work on small patrol/security craft and hovercraft). Pretty cool work, but the conditions are really tight quartered,(reminds me of my days building subs ...AARRRGHHH!!) Anyway, I can help ya w/ the fine points of alloy. Maybe one day you will be able to mirror weld..:lol: Maybe one day I will get to that NABX thing,would sure like to meet some of the people I have been sharing info with these last couple of years.

popeyethewelder - 15-11-2011 at 03:36 AM

Looks like this site has been hackec....

Scudley - 16-11-2011 at 03:50 PM

Loads of really nice bicycle frames are brazed. The famous Norton Featherbed frames were also brass brazed. In some ways brazing might be better than welds as the softer metal is less prone to cracking and less HAZ in the parent material. They take longer, but you can file and rebraze back over several times.
S