Power Kite Forum

Flow

Brian - 17-1-2009 at 05:31 PM

Does anyone have any imput on the Ozone Flow kites good or bad???

furbowski - 17-1-2009 at 06:30 PM

I haven't flown one, but i lurk a lot here and there, here's what i've picked up:

minimal bridle, A & B & X rows only, no AoA adjustment, very nice looking, fast through the window, not lifty, good in low winds when not powered up (i mean it flies easily in low winds, doesn't need to be well powered up to fly well like a blade on high lift setting), cheaper than blurrs, not as strong as blurr, decent buggy kite, good beginner kite, munches gusts pretty good for a FB, stable, fast turner, usual ozone quality.

flow1.jpg - 24kB

DenisLaMenace - 17-1-2009 at 06:34 PM

I read a review on the french local forum by an IKO snowkite teacher. He now uses it for teaching. More stable than Ozone Access, eats gusts better at the edge of the window. Not much more powerful than the depower kite same size.

A friendly beginner kite if I can guess.

Brian - 18-1-2009 at 09:30 AM

If they are better than the access in alot of ways why are the 4m flows half the price than the 4m access kites???:puzzled:

furbowski - 18-1-2009 at 10:12 AM

they're a fixed bridle kite, access are depower. two different animals. the 4m flow is a good quality first foil that would be fun to fly for first-timers in a wide range of winds, but the 4m access wouldn't fly well until 15 mph, it's really a high-wind kite, most experienced flyers wouldn't get it out until 25 mph, but the flow would fly pretty well in 5 mph.

kiteNH - 18-1-2009 at 10:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Brian
If they are better than the access in alot of ways why are the 4m flows half the price than the 4m access kites???:puzzled:


The Access comes with a depower bar which is much more expensive than handles. The Access has a more complicated bridle with pulleys.

The 4m Access is a pricey kite per meter like all small depowers. I picked one up second hand for a good price, but don't think I'd have sprung for one new. And while I find the kite to be really stable, I don't think that it has an awful lot of depower because its already such a small kite. What I really like about it vs flying a fixed bridle kite like the Flow (which I've never flown) is that the safety is so easy to release and reload and matches the other Ozone kites that I fly.

If you are thinking about depower I'd probably think bigger kite like a 6m which should give you a bigger usable wind range.

Here is a cool video of someone flying a 4m Access that I saw the other day (except for the music, better with the sound off):

kiteon - 18-1-2009 at 12:08 PM

i am curently looking for a the most stabe kite i can find for gusty winds in nebraska. would the flow be the best option.

furbowski - 18-1-2009 at 01:00 PM

I'd say -- again I haven't flown one -- from what I've picked up from various lurks about it would be worth checking out as a FB with a wide wind range that might answer for gusty winds, and should not be too difficult to sell on if it doesn't suit.

are you hoping to use it for jumping (in the buggy?) or just for flying static? PL arcs seem to be the best thing for gusts, but that's not from personal experience, and they aren't FB kites, but if you were looking to get your buggy in the air, that's what you might want to look into more....

I'd like a 4-5 m flow myself as a fun stable kite for flying static, but there's lots more I'd rather drop that cash on...

Brian - 18-1-2009 at 06:40 PM

So would a 4m flow with handles be a good kite to start out with, in 12kph winds or less of course...???

furbowski - 18-1-2009 at 07:45 PM

it would be a nice kite to start out with, yes. low to medium aspect, not lifty, gust-resistant, turns easily, stable near the edge, all the things that make for a good beginner kite, plus a little extra edge of performance, not too doggy.

but if you are looking into getting a first kite, it is worth checking out some of the deals on used kites here on this forum, you can get some good ones for $150 or so, beamerbob's beamer is still up for grabs i believe, and there are others as well.

have a look at that section of the forum, and start another thread with what you think is good. you'll get good advice that way. don't forget to include your weight and what your local winds and likely flying spots might be like. with the way the market is, you stand to save a lot of $$$!

that said, I don't think you'd go wrong with the 4m flow new, if you can afford it! the thing to remember is that once you get into the sport, you'll want more kites, might be good to conserve your cash...

kitemaker4 - 18-1-2009 at 09:22 PM

i am curently looking for a the most stabe kite i can find for gusty winds in nebraska. would the flow be the best option.

I have found nasa wings are great in gusty inland wind. That is all I fly.

Susan (npw goddess)

flexiblade - 18-1-2009 at 10:55 PM

Brian: From what I've seen on the pricing I would stay away from it (3m - $350 - $400) - I say that as a beginner you want something that will teach you how to fly and be used a little later for learning to control actual power - you can't beat the prices of the Pansh Legends - they are stable and can give decent pull in the right conditions - A 3m legend goes for about a little over a hundred dollars. Your first kite WILL be a kite you move on from as your kiting experience grows. Save your money for something that will give you what you need later on - personally, an arc! But something to work up to, not to begin with.

Quick difference on Fixed Bridles and Depowers: Fixed Bridles are just that - the bridles (lines that connect to the fabric of the kite - converging to a single lines that connect to your power lines) do not move in any way - when the wind hits the kite the kite is ON, there is no adjustment to be made to the power the kite delivers apart from how you fly it. Can be very snatchy in gusty winds.

Depowers have the ability to change the (A)ngle (o)f (A)ttack - AoA - simple way to understand this is when you are in a car and stick your hand out the window at speed and hold it parallel to the ground your hand will somewhat stay relatively still - if you angle the leading edge (the part getting hit by the wind) of your hand up your hand will quickly move up with force. In a depower kite (usually with a bar instead of individual handles) the lines to the rear of the kite connect to the outside points of a bar - the lines that run through (there is a hole in the bar) the bar connect to the front of the kite - when you pull the bar towards you it pulls the rear of the kite down - making the leading edge of the kite go up just like tilting your hand. With this you can control the amount of power the kite delivers. The reason beginners don't start out with what seems a better system is that they are, as stated earlier, generally much bigger than fixed bridles and can therefore put an inexperienced flyer at extreme risk. If you know all this already than disregard and I apologize for going on so.

kitemaker4 and kiteon: The next time you run into someone with an arc - ask to give it a try - a little to get used to for launching and landing - but a better gust muncher is hard to find - something like a 10 or 13m are the best all around ranges.

Brian - 19-1-2009 at 12:05 PM

Good advice flexiblade just went to the pansh website and are the legend 3m's ever cheap i guess i might be hard on my first kite anyways so why buy an expensive one that i might crash quite abit. It says they are designed to be a high performance kite this may be a stupid question but what is that? And also I never had anything shipped to me from overseas so I am kind of leary about this expecially giving my credit card number I dont have paypal, has there been any problems doing this that you have heard? Also says it comes complete with flying handles and line so does that mean that it comes "ready to fly"?

kiteNH - 19-1-2009 at 12:25 PM

Or buy the 3m Beamer that is on sale in the For Sale section for $150 shipped. Nice kite.

Brian - 19-1-2009 at 12:32 PM

anybody know the wind ranges for the pansh legends?

furbowski - 19-1-2009 at 12:36 PM

I've bought a few kites from the pansh site using credit card, no problems, they are actually quite good with the shipping and if you have any problems they will sort you out if you give them an email. The thing to do is register on their site, the transaction will be smoother. It is a bit weird having to use IE on windoze, that makes me more nervous than anything else about the transactions frankly.

The high-performance thing is just hype, its a good beginner's kite and high-performance in its own way. It is supplied with lines and handles, but they are usually NOT ready to fly, you'll need to play with it a bit, go to www.dakitez.com and scroll down to the instructions link on the left hand side, that is the best set of directions for getting a pansh ready to fly.

but imho i'd spend a little more and get that beamer, at that price you'll get most of your money back on resale, and you can trust beamerbob to ship it truly ready to fly.

have a look at the for sale thread of this forum and others, i doubt i will ever pay new prices for a kite again after having a couple of really good experiences buying kites used online from forums, you do need to be a little careful but people who put time and quality input into a forum will not do bad deals and throw their online rep away!

edit: click on this thread, scroll down, there's a short list there of good beginner kites for sale on this forum, a few days old, but most are likely still available:

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=8168

awindofchange - 19-1-2009 at 02:26 PM

Ahhhhh the Flow........ This may be better in the review section but seeing as it is being discussed here I thought I would put in my two cents. :)

We have the Flow in stock and have been seriously abusing it the last few weeks. To sum it up in a few words....The Flow ROCKS! Everyone who has taken a turn on it absolutely loves it! It is super fast through the window and exceptionally stable, you just can't yank this kite out of the sky. Even if you do get it to collapse (which takes some serious work), it reopens up almost instantly. A couple of new features that the Flow has - vented covered leading edge, velcro dirt-outs, internal cross bracing which reduces bridles and parasitic drag, 480/220 kook-proof flying line set with kite killers and padded dlx handles, kite strap, longer link line (strop) and a really nice heavy duty backpack.

The first reports from our people is that this new design works exceptionally well in the buggy with excellent power and super smooth controls, even in the smallest 2.0 meter size. The 3.0 will fly in appx. 4-5 mph winds and start producing usable power in 10-12 mph. Top end hasn't been tested as of yet but estimated around the 20-25 mph mark in the buggy (for the 3.0 meter - depending on skills, terrain, etc...) The Flow is awesomely predictable, power delivery is super smooth without the yank-n-spank kind of flying. It is rock solid in the air and gives solid feel even through the turns. You know right when the power is going to come on and can brace for it.

We were able to fly the new Flow this last weekend side by side with a 4.0 Pansh Ace. We discovered that the 3.0 Flow produces about the same static power as the 4.0 Pansh but the flow was much easier to control and very smooth. The Flow is faster through the window and if you get after it hard it produces better power (you can work it easier with better results than the Pansh). We were able to get going on the buggy sooner in the lighter winds with the Flow 3.0, the Pansh had trouble getting in the air. This was a huge shocker as the 4.0 was quite a bit larger kite and should have been better in this area. The more skilled pilots could keep the Ace going once they got it up but it was a lot more work than the smaller Flow. Once you got going both kites were pretty close in power in the lighter winds. Once the wind picked up around 12-15 both kites were about the same but the Flow kicked butt in upwind performance and was much easier to fly - it felt much more solid in the air and produced much better power on the edge of the window. The Ace was a bit of a handful at times and would pound you in the middle of the window if you weren't ready for it. In speed runs the Ace did a little better in downwind runs but couldn't keep up with the Flow at all in upwind performance. Broad reaches were pretty evenly matched. IMO, overall the Flow was just much more enjoyable to fly and had near the same performance as the larger kite. Throughout the day the Flows barely ever got a rest as everyone was taking numerous turns on them and it was a hassle to get the riders to bring them back for others to try. The Pansh was available pretty much anytime you wanted it and stayed parked quite a bit. :) (BTW, the owner of the Pansh has now purchased a Flow and is putting his Pansh on fleebay).

The Flow really opened up quite a few eyes when we demo'd it for our group. Being listed as a beginner to intermediate kite somewhat gives the impression that it is not that great of a performer....I am here to say that is very far from the truth. The Flow rocks and has some excellent performance while still being super stable, perfect for the buggy or flying static. Everyone that flew it loved the kite and was very impressed with its performance and feel. If you make it to Vegas and want to take one out for a ride, let me know. We have demo's for you to try in all sizes.

furbowski - 19-1-2009 at 02:36 PM

yeah, that jives with the impression i got from my lurks, an easy kite to fly but with enough performance to keep a skilled flyer interested (unlike a legend... easy to fly but won't keep a more experienced flyer going) and it's interesting to hear how it stacks up against the Ace...

@brian: if you have the cash, give this review serious thought, AWOC doesn't bull around! If you don't have the cash, have a look at the alternatives above.

edit: also it's worth considering that any decent kite will give you a solid thrill if you're just starting out, after you've flown a bit and gotten to know your local winds you'll better know what size kite will suit you best, and that may well be the one to spend the serious money on...

flexiblade - 19-1-2009 at 06:26 PM

High performance is Chinese for buy it. They are what I would consider beaters - You don't really have to worry about smashing the thing up - they are pretty well put together, but are not "high performance" kites - the flow would be a high performance kite - the price is a bit daunting for someone just starting out - but for what you get they are a good deal for a new high quality kite. That said the beamer is a high quality kite - and the one for sale is a great deal - it's up to you where you want to start - I would go with the beamer if you got a little cash - if you're broke, then the Pansh - if you got loads of cash go with the flow. Anyway you go a 3m is the best size to start with.

If you don't have a paypal account you need to get one - many places to get used or new kites will use paypal (ebay and from members on this forum)- it's painless and easy to set up - if your concerned about buying a pansh from the company you can get them from DAKITEZ on this forum - just shoot him a u2u.

DAKITEZ - 19-1-2009 at 07:22 PM

The legend or bobs beamer will be a good idea for you.

Spend a little over $100 and take that kite and crash it, bash it, get drug all over the field ... just have a great time and enjoy it. Once your skills are better and you know more exactly the next kite you want (and you will know what you want by then) Then you spend the money and get a really good kite. Plus you will always have the legend or beamer to let your friends fly, so they don't tear up your new, more expensive kite.

BeamerBob - 20-1-2009 at 04:40 AM

Thanks for the recommendations guys. I've had some nibbles but the Beamer is still available.

lunchbox - 20-1-2009 at 10:43 AM

Quote:

Being listed as a beginner to intermediate kite somewhat gives the impression that it is not that great of a performer....I am here to say that is very far from the truth.


AWOC...Intially reading about the kite's description I was also skeptical about the kite's performance...thanks for the great write up and removing that doubt.

...BTW, is the Flow the replacement for the Cult? If so, are there a lot of performance related improvements? How does it compare to the Reactors?

awindofchange - 20-1-2009 at 12:18 PM

The Flow is replacing the Cult. Performance wise the Flow is faster than the Cult through the window which will produce a bit more power per size (minimal but noticeable). It is rock solid in the air, being probably one of the most stable kites I have flown in a long time - very similar to the Little Devil series kites but with much better power delivery and control. The main differences is the location of the intake vents, the mesh covering, less bridles, dirt-out's. The graphics are obviously different as well with the stripe of the kite running right over the leading edge which is really cool looking. It also covers up two sections of the leading edge which gives improved air flow design and shape towards the wing tips.

I haven't had the chance to stack it next to the Reactor yet, hopefully within the next few weeks. Next to the Yakuza, the Flow wins in the stability department but that's about it.

The pilots who have demo'd the Flow with us all use a variety of kites including Flexi's (blades & bullet), HQ (Beamers 2 & 3, Scout, TSR, Crossfire 1 & 2), Firebee, JoJo RM & RM+, New Tech Ballistic, Pansh (Ace) and other Ozones (Haka, Cult, Riot, Razor, LD & Yak). All of them were very impressed with the Flow and we had absolutely zero negative feedback - even from some of the hard core racers. We are very excited about this kite, you just gotta fly it to really appreciate just how awesome it is.

furbowski - 20-1-2009 at 12:37 PM

about $350 for a five meter, as opposed to $749 for the five meter blurr....

holy cow, what a price difference!

lunchbox - 20-1-2009 at 01:32 PM

Quote:

The pilots who have demo'd the Flow with us all use a variety of kites including Flexi's (blades & bullet), HQ (Beamers 2 & 3, Scout, TSR, Crossfire 1 & 2), Firebee, JoJo RM & RM+, New Tech Ballistic, Pansh (Ace) and other Ozones (Haka, Cult, Riot, Razor, LD & Yak). All of them were very impressed with the Flow and we had absolutely zero negative feedback - even from some of the hard core racers.


Quote:

about $350 for a five meter, as opposed to $749 for the five meter blurr...


This is not good...I told my wife that I had not purchased any kite related stuff for several weeks....looks like that streak might come to an end :shocked2:

I have a Cult 3.5 which I really like....extremely stable and pretty powerful at the same time. My friend has a 3.5m Blurr which I've also flown and can definitely say..has quite a bit more power (IMHO). Now if the Flow has the same or almost the same power and upwind mobility of the Blurr and at that price point....all I can say is WHOW and then break the bad news to my wife....

Brian - 20-1-2009 at 01:32 PM

AWOC thanks for the great write up you answered alot of questions. I think I will start out with the 3m Legend like DAKITEZ said let it crash and drag me all over the prairies, after I learn to handle this and get some good experience, and experiences then spend some money on the 5m Flow hopefully for next winter so it can drag me all over on a board. Mabie with alot of sweet talk with the wife I can then use the 3m Legend to pull me around on a buggie on those windy days.:lol:

BeamerBob - 20-1-2009 at 01:37 PM

life is not complete till you have buggied! :Ange09:

Brian - 21-1-2009 at 09:32 AM

Anyone know the wing span of the legend 3m by chance?:puzzled:

DAKITEZ - 21-1-2009 at 09:46 AM

11.5' wide x 43" high