Power Kite Forum - ARCS!! ARCS!!! ARCS!!!

ARCS!! ARCS!!! ARCS!!!

dgkid78 - 8-2-2009 at 05:54 PM

Just like a few months ago with Flysurfer. It seems twin skins are all the rage now. And Now I am itching to know since I know the least about these kites.

Self Launch/Land? how hard is it?

I am 99% on my own every time i fly. and I fly on Grass. So i ain't got no sand to hold her down or anything like they always suggest with kites. I can get some sand bags made up though :spin:

I am dying to try one i wanna know what the rage is all about!

domdino - 8-2-2009 at 06:04 PM

I really honestly think arcs are one of the easiest kites to launch by yourself, i launch them the same way i launch a flysurfer and i land them on the safety (i attach my safety to the front line though, i hate the rear line safety....)

There is probably a slight learning curve but not too much. The newer ones have launch assist tags as well which makes sure the lines don't get tangled round the back, thats the only problem i ever had with my old guerilla... Just watch the instructional video and it really is as easy as it looks.

ripsessionkites - 8-2-2009 at 06:09 PM

AUTO ZENITH !!!

nwsurfwakeskate - 8-2-2009 at 06:26 PM

they are excellent for self launching and landing. grass is not a problem either just make sure you have some weights handy

personally I use a few 10lbs neoprene ankle weights to load down my phantom 12m. although that sometimes isn't enough weight depending on how hard the wind is blowing.

I would suggest picking up some lead shot scuba diving weights or some big sand bags. preferrably something a little more bulky then ankle weights because mine sometimes roll off of the kite as its flopping around on the ground.

nwsurfwakeskate - 8-2-2009 at 06:28 PM

a good dog stake or kite stake might not be a bad idea either so that when you land with your safety you can tie it off to something while you walk up to the kite and weight it down.

personally I don't use them because I just walk my way up the safety line after I land it. its all a matter of how comfortable you are with them and how much wind you're planning on flying in

Taper123 - 8-2-2009 at 06:49 PM

I'll self launch all the time, but if someone is around who knows to just grab the lower leading edge where the spars are and walk towards you... makes it super easy to relaunch again as the lines do not get twisted. But usually I just tie the kite off to my truck and let it auto-zenith. Unless you crash one, you can go all day and several sessions without ever having to land one.

Key to self launch is getting it as fully inflated as possible.

PHREERIDER - 8-2-2009 at 06:54 PM

i think they launch/land easy.

solo launch only.i don't think ive ever had an assist, if i can't launch it solo then i don't need to be flying, general rule keeps things tidy...reusable sandbag is a option.

kite stake not in my game.

watch the video ,,,just like that

WolfWolfee - 8-2-2009 at 07:08 PM

It seems a lot of inland kiter's are switching to them. They handle gust incredibly and once you have a kite that auto zenith it hard to fly anything else. Flying fixed bridles and other kites I probably launch and re launch more times than I can remember. The PL's you just let the bar go and up top she runs and sits there waiting for you. How sweet is that, and lift and float is amazing. Try and get out and try someones, as for model as with most kites the newer the better.

tridude - 8-2-2009 at 09:35 PM

"So i ain't got no sand to hold her down or anything like they always suggest with kites".

ya aint got to have no sand (spits)............ Sears and Roebuck catalog, bag of Martha Whites flour, or Uncle Ennus' chaw can will work I recon.........

nwsurfwakeskate - 8-2-2009 at 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tridude
"So i ain't got no sand to hold her down or anything like they always suggest with kites".

ya aint got to have no sand (spits)............ Sears and Roebuck catalog, bag of Martha Whites flour, or Uncle Ennus' chaw can will work I recon.........

that's actually a pretty dang good Idea. I'd want to make sure it was in a bullet proof bag though. the last thing I want is a burst open bag of flour in the back of my car

redtailin - 8-2-2009 at 11:05 PM

I, too, am pretty interested in these PL kites, and I keep hearing about the 'auto zenith'. I assume that the kite just automatically moves to and stays in the zenith position...? How does that work? What is the design element that allows that to happen that other kites don't have?

NPWfever - 8-2-2009 at 11:50 PM

I think just the perfect arc shape makes it really stable, no bladders or anything to make any eddies, just smooth flow. Just my guess.

nwsurfwakeskate - 9-2-2009 at 12:06 AM

I almost wonder if they auto zenith because of the wingtips being heavier then the rest of the kite.

maybe its like a counterweight scale?

BeamerBob - 9-2-2009 at 04:17 AM

those spars aren't really all that heavy. A wad of ripstop would weigh more than the spars. It's just a great design. It is harmonious with the wind instead of pillaging from it.

SecondWind - 9-2-2009 at 05:26 AM

I'm totally new to Arcs also.

The only thing I'm not digging so far is the pre-inflation. I've cheated twice using my leaf blower :lol:

When the winds are good, launching is no problem.

However, if the winds are gusting/shifting and you don't have enough weight on the sail, it can flip flop all over the place before you get back to the bar.

tridude - 9-2-2009 at 06:02 AM

yep shifting/pre inflation can be frustrating at first but keep in mind the sweet flight ahead........................................sand at the beach, dive belt weights inland or whatever, improvise.......................thats what separates us from the damn communists

kiteNH - 9-2-2009 at 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SecondWind

The only thing I'm not digging so far is the pre-inflation. I've cheated twice using my leaf blower :lol:

That's not cheating. A guy who flies PL around here rolls with a battery powered leaf blower for pre-inflation. I was out with him once this year where the wind was pretty light and I don't hink that he ever would have gotten off the ground without having the blower for inflation.

Bladerunner - 9-2-2009 at 08:43 AM

Look at Carl's videos!

N'uff said! :yes:

tridude - 9-2-2009 at 10:24 AM

winds were on off Saturday, 9 to 14, then 3etc.............. mother nature inflated my Synergy within minutes.............. :lol:

:duh::duh:

awindofchange - 9-2-2009 at 01:24 PM

Ok, for weights for your ARC, you don't need to purchase any scuba weights or ankle weights or anything...besides once you launch someone will come by and take them!!!

Just get yourself a couple large ziploc bags and fill it with dirt or even rocks. Once you launch nobody is going to take them and you can just dump the dirt/gravel back out when your done and shove the empty bags in with your kite.

nwsurfwakeskate - 9-2-2009 at 01:30 PM

the man makes a good point!

Quote:

Originally posted by awindofchange
Ok, for weights for your ARC, you don't need to purchase any scuba weights or ankle weights or anything...besides once you launch someone will come by and take them!!!

Just get yourself a couple large ziploc bags and fill it with dirt or even rocks. Once you launch nobody is going to take them and you can just dump the dirt/gravel back out when your done and shove the empty bags in with your kite.

lunchbox - 9-2-2009 at 01:40 PM

Yep...I use some old milk cartoons (plastic) and just fill them with sand...think I got that from the Corey-Lama!

On Higher wind days, just stick the whole cartoons on there and on the lighter days, just stick one or even just part of one.

...so far, no thefts :thumbup:

carltb - 9-2-2009 at 02:08 PM

THE IDEAL WEIGHT FOR INLAND FLYING, ESPECIALLY ON A SUMMERS DAY, IS BOTTLED WATER. A 2 LITRE BOTTLE WEIGHS 2KGS OR 4.4LBS. ONCE YOU HAVE LAUNCHED YOU HAVE TO ADDED BENIFIT OF FRESH WATER. WIN WIN.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAbfkrRyjus

I MADE THIS VID A WHILE BACK ON HAW TO SET UP AN ARC. IT WAS FILMED AT THE BEACH BUT IT WAS OFF SHORE WIND SO CLOSE TO INLAND CONDITIONS.

carltb - 9-2-2009 at 02:12 PM

OH YEAH. WITH A NEW PURCHASE YOU GET A SNOW/SAND BAG. I CANT REMEMBER WHETHER IT CAME WITH THE 07 BAR OR THE SYNERGY, BUT THE BAG ALSO DOUBLES AS A BAR BAG.

PHREERIDER - 9-2-2009 at 02:40 PM

i have used my water bottle it just rolls off when ready and yes always need the water.

but after a session the water is gone and it want hold a thing when i'm done

by far the best thing i have is my water board makes a nice shovel... two scoops and you r done without sand on your hands /gloves

gave my daughter a project (7yr. old) cut off half a blue jean leg(old pair) and make a bag with a handle

f0rgiv3n - 16-2-2009 at 12:28 PM

Another ARC question, what size bar(s) do you guys use for what size kites? is a 50cm good enough for a 19m? is a 60cm too large for my 13m?

carltb - 16-2-2009 at 12:47 PM

i generally use a 55cm bar for all my arcs.

f0rgiv3n - 16-2-2009 at 12:49 PM

OK, good info. right in the middle

Thanks!

tridude - 16-2-2009 at 03:12 PM

same here...using a 55ccm Best bar (heavily moded) on all my arcs 13,15,19.............working just fine! :lol:

:duh::duh:

nwsurfwakeskate - 16-2-2009 at 03:33 PM

'09 51cm naish SLE bar on my 12m phantom

soon to have 55cm North 5th element bar I'm going to mod with powerzones help into a 4line setup for the 15m Phantom

sparkin_larkin - 16-2-2009 at 05:21 PM

Guys
Tons of launch info on arcusers. If its gusty just weight the kite on the down wind corner along with folding and sanding the upwind edge and some on the trailing edge. It slides off during launch and up she goes. You can oversheet these kites and set the kite down where you want. If its not tooo windy. User-friendly is really an understatement....I was trying to tell some guy about auto zenith and he kept saying that his kite could stay in place too. So finally I said I could tie my flying kite to a fence post and go have lunch!!They just don't understand. ;-)
Now launching from a boat.. thats another story...Loved em but left em...SL

WolfWolfee - 16-2-2009 at 06:49 PM

Until you have flown one you just can't explain it to people.

WolfWolfee - 17-2-2009 at 05:29 PM

Been talking to the Peter Lynn bunch looks like they might do a North American tour next year. More details to come.

tridude - 17-2-2009 at 07:29 PM

sweet........................................ hows that 16m Scorp treating you?

WolfWolfee - 17-2-2009 at 08:19 PM

I swear since the day I got it winds haven't hit 8 mph. Bought a leaf blower its gonna fly one way of another..lol

PrairieWind - 17-2-2009 at 11:16 PM

auto zenith vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSWfi5AMT2E

PHREERIDER - 18-2-2009 at 06:54 AM

coming off the water after a long ride or when the wind drops a little i will often come in lay down and rest with the kite idled above .... the wind usually tells me go back out when it tugs a little. it a nice feature ....it a kite! doing what a kite is suppose to do ! FLY

kitedog - 18-2-2009 at 12:42 PM

Just took possession of a V2 13 and I've watched Carl's set up youtube vid (great info, thanks!) but I'm wondering if there are any good vids of self-landing a Venom or related ARC? Anyone?

macboy - 18-2-2009 at 01:25 PM

You don't really need a video - just pull the pin. Bring it down as close to or touching the ground at the window's edge and let go. In light winds I've been known to reach up and QUICKLY pull in the lower rear leader until the kite flags but DO NOT do this in any sort of real winds - it's a good way to lose a finger. This video from PL shows the landing near the end.

PL Setup Vid

Landing around 10:30

rdavis - 18-2-2009 at 01:30 PM

I've got a question.... Some of you were talking about what control bars you use with the arcs, and i'm wondering if an Airush Air Ride bar would work? I've been gathering all the info I can get on ARCs recently, getting ready to make my first purchase. It seems most of the ones I've come across are kite only and i've been trying to find a bar that would work. It seems like most kiteboarding bars would work, but I want to be certain before I spend money on something I can't use and worse have a kite I can't fly because I bought the wrong equipment! Thanks!

awindofchange - 18-2-2009 at 01:51 PM

Pretty much any kite surfing depower rig will work on your PL. The only thing is that you will want to double check all the safety connections and leash to make sure that it drops to ONE LINE when released. Also make sure that once the safety is activated the kite can COMPLETELY flag out.

Most aftermarket bars will not have enough travel on the chicken line. PL's have huge amounts of depower. You may find that you will need to lengthen your chicken line (depower line length) to take advantage of the full depower these kites are capable of.

All four lines should be equal length. If your aftermarket bar has different length leaders then you may need to adjust those as well.

Hope this helps.

rdavis - 18-2-2009 at 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by awindofchange
Most aftermarket bars will not have enough travel on the chicken line. PL's have huge amounts of depower. You may find that you will need to lengthen your chicken line (depower line length) to take advantage of the full depower these kites are capable of.

I'm not quite clear on one detail you mentioned....you said I may need to lengthen the chicken line. Will there be enough adjustment on most bars, or is this a modification I would have to make by adding more line? Hope my question is clear enough. Thanks for the help.

awindofchange - 18-2-2009 at 02:03 PM

It depends on the bar actually but in most cases you will want to change the existing chicken line to a new one that is longer. You can't really add more line to the existing one and still have the bar slide up and down without snags. Chicken line is fairly easy to replace, most use Amsteel, we have it in stock.

kitedog - 18-2-2009 at 02:07 PM

Macboy!

Cool vid. Haven't seen that one. Did you see the guy running the kite in a complete 360 around him at 19:40? Too cool...its kinda speeded up but pretty incredible just the same. Musta been low wind to do that...I gotta try that sometime.

f0rgiv3n - 18-2-2009 at 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kitedog
Macboy!

Cool vid. Haven't seen that one. Did you see the guy running the kite in a complete 360 around him at 19:40? Too cool...its kinda speeded up but pretty incredible just the same. Musta been low wind to do that...I gotta try that sometime.

Funny, i just got my venom in yesterday and watched that video last night :P I too intrigued by the 360. I've done it with my ace but never thought to try it on a depower kite ;P.

rdavis - 18-2-2009 at 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by awindofchange
It depends on the bar actually but in most cases you will want to change the existing chicken line to a new one that is longer. You can't really add more line to the existing one and still have the bar slide up and down without snags. Chicken line is fairly easy to replace, most use Amsteel, we have it in stock.

Thanks for the info Kent, been a big help. I may have to get in touch with you about that when I figure out what direction i'm going to take, or what kind of deal I find.

macboy - 18-2-2009 at 02:59 PM

rdavis - When I first got my Guerilla I flew it on an Airush something or other. Never really ran into insane winds at the time so I didn't notice the depower I was missing. You'll get a clear idea of how much depower these things are capable of as soon as you do a lighter wind launch by grabbing an arm length of middle lines to launch. The kite will slowly climb right up to the zenith (filling on the way) with hardly any pull. If you can trim a bar out right you should be able to fly them like a single line kite, just letting it go and sit up there. It's cool to lay down with the kite hooked in and just watch it float above you. I know there's a good link somewhere on here about the perfect trim - dig around and you'll find it.

Vid clip - It was funny, the first time I saw that vid link posted I learned a TON. Then when I got the Venom I watched the DVD and realized "Hey, I've seen this before"....no, not the online one, I had seen it after receiving the DVD with my first arc in the mail ; ) I had watched it but absorbed nothing, having no idea what to watch for.

WolfWolfee - 18-2-2009 at 09:30 PM

Scorpion took flight today, was up in Cold Lake and took her out at lunch. We had 17 to 24 kmh winds, didn't even have to use the leaf blower. Had little time but it sure felt good, can imagine in 30 +kmh winds should be a hoot.

tridude - 19-2-2009 at 04:41 AM

nice...........so you were just starting to light up at 15mph.....................good first flight winds.................OBTW Ive been TDY to Cold Lake many times but it was always late May, early June. The drive from Edmonton out there and back has incredible views...................

rdavis - 19-2-2009 at 06:41 AM

Thanks for the tip macboy. Do you happen to remember any keywords in that post about the perfect trim, something that may help me find it easier? Or at least which forum category it's under? I'm gonna start digging around in the tips section, see what I can find.

PHREERIDER - 19-2-2009 at 07:32 AM

the easiest way to land is just unhook and let go of the bar. the main line flag will catch and drop the kite straight down wind. walk up the main to the kite and secure . it can twist a little roll over but will settle every time even in high winds 30 + .. but the cool way to do it is use the stall and reverse the kite down thru the window then roll it to the flag side unhook and it just lays out in the exact same spot as the launch the tube guys are amazed every time i do this. this works up to about 22mph or so. as the wind speed increases the stall point begins to diminish as well as control. the set up in the bar/mainline needs to be long enough to accommodate stalling. if a lot of depower is set in the front lines leaders of the kite stall wiht the bar is usually absent but then you have to handle the back lines beyond the bar which is not a good idea. so just unhook and let go. it's that simple.

if you run a suicide leash you have to move it to the main line of course before you drop it in any case. oh and flip the donkey dick out of the hook.

plenty of info on set up

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/mx5alan/arcs/ARCsetup_FAQ.htm

rdavis - 19-2-2009 at 07:46 AM

Thanks PHREERIDER, I was just about to post and ask if that was the info macboy was talking about. I found it linked in a couple of other posts I was reading through. I've got a lot to learn, problem is i'm more of a visual/hands on learner, but there's not really anyone around here to learn from. I'm gonna keep reading away.

macboy - 19-2-2009 at 03:25 PM

Yep - that's the one - thanks Phree!