Power Kite Forum

Scary Kite Lift from a Crossfire 2 8.0

hoversmooth999 - 11-2-2009 at 03:21 AM

Hello all,
Just a quick story. I have seen the kite jump videos and wanted to join in the fun so I recently bought a Beamer 3 5.0 to practice with and still wanted more and then bought a Crossfire 2 8.0. Wooh, Completely Different Kite. So I went out to the field today (3rd time to fly the kite), but this time to try it in some 12-13 mph winds. Bad Move. I weigh 155 lbs. and soon found myself having a bit of trouble controlling the kite in these winds. All of a sudden with the kite in the Zenith I instantly was pulled up in the air. About 15-20 feet my girlfriend says and just held on for the ride in hopes of coming down soon. Yeah, I came down. Down with a thud. I did lose some altitude and thats when I let the kite killers take over. The kite at that time was to the left which I'm guessing is why I came back down, but not even close to softly. Anyway, luckily just some scrapes and bruises and I live to fly another day. In lighter winds though. Anybody with this same kite have any experience. I saw a youtube video (the only one) with a guy pulling off a really nice jump with the same kite. This is one lifty kite. Gotta respect that wind!!!!
Regards:o

acampbell - 11-2-2009 at 06:32 AM

Aw jeeez. Gotta respect that kite as well as the wind. Glad you are OK. I suspect you did not re-direct the kite to keep it overhead. You mentioned the kite was to the left when you came down. I suspect to left at the edge of the window, which is why you came down so hard. If that was the case, flying the kite back to the right overhead (re-directing) would have given you more of a floaty landing. You need to practice this so you can do it by feel without looking at the kite so you can pay attention to other aspects of your surroundings, such as where the ground is.
Good luck and be safe.

dylanj423 - 11-2-2009 at 07:39 AM

I just responded to another post of yours hoversmooth... was hoping to prevent a situation like this. You have a hell of a beginners kite there. My beginners kite was a crossfire 3m, and that little bugger was a handful at times... I could only imagine an 8m.

I own a 7.7 make 1, and it can be a beast. I suggested 10mph as a cap for the winds that you fly this thing in, 10mph may be a handful, and if it is a sustained 10mph, then its probably gusting to 15 or higher.

Be careful, man. It may be a gooid idea to keep that kite in the bag for a while.

BeamerBob - 11-2-2009 at 07:52 AM

The Crossfire can easily be mentioned in the same breath as a Blade. They are both incredibly powerful kites and an 8m is really going to catch some wind. Going from your Beamer to a 5m Crossfire would've been a big jump in performance and is what most here would've recommended. 10 mph would be my tops for a fun time with the 8m kite I bet. I love my 5m for static flying and I can handle it up into the high teens before it starts having its way with me. I have been in awe several times with the Crossfire II in the buggy at just how much horsepower it develops with the wind it is given. Angus is right about the redirect. You need to practice that in winds where you are struggling to barely get off the ground and I mean a hundred jumps or more. Then when you really get hoisted, your redirect will be automatic and you will land and look up at the kite happily hovering over your head. Anything other than overhead at landing is going to give you some ground speed. Below 10:00 or 2:00 in the window and it isn't going to provide lift and float for a soft landing.

You are at least wearing a helmet with that kite aren't you? It deserves one every time you take it out.

furbowski - 11-2-2009 at 10:56 AM

just wanted to add that if you are feeling overpowered with a kite that size, but for some reason still think you can fly it (new kite, just need to learn to fly it a little more then I'll be ok, etc...) don't keep it at the zenith to rest! You're inviting a lofting! keep it at the side of the window! A little tricker but if it gets hit by a gust you won't be overwhelmed by instant vertical pull.

Also the kite doesn't have a big sweet spot for static flying when you are starting out, as soon as it is flying well it is giving you enough power to hurt you if you mess up, makes the learning curve a bit steep.

Not many people about with that kite, it's a beast!

were you flying it on a higher or lower AoA?

also you mention flying it on a field and the winds were fairly normal inland from your description, if you can get to a beach with onshore smooth winds the gas cost / drive time starts to really become worth it with the bigger aggressive fixed bridles, the flying experience is just so much nicer!

arkay - 11-2-2009 at 11:32 AM

Huh, I didn't realize that there would really be upwards pull at zenith with the lofty kites. The max I've flown my Montana 5m in is high 20's, which was too much wind for me and that kite, so I was basically practicing launching and bailing out :) But when I did let the kite sit at zenith i noticed that I would almost hold my weight (#220) but would only give be small bounces even in the gusts. It's surprising that the kite would generate so much lift without additional forward movement. That must be some aoa.

I've been resting my kites left of zenith at like 11 o'c. I guess a good habit I didn't know I picked up from the kiteboarders.

furbowski - 11-2-2009 at 11:41 AM

there's plenty of pull in the right conditions, if there's enough risk factors it can be a real problem. for example: big 8m canopy + fixed bridle + new to kite and size + inland gusty winds + aggressive kite design + flying at the upper end of the safe wind range. take out two or three of those, it gets a lot safer. Add them all up, the chance for a lofting gets a lot higher.

hoversmooth999 - 11-2-2009 at 12:13 PM

Hey Guys,
Thanks for the responses. I'm a pretty tough country boy so my incident yesterday luckily did not do much to me as far as injury. Here San Antonio, Texas we normally have calmer days and that was the main reason for buying this kite. I flew it before in 2-3 mph winds and two other times in 5-8 mph winds. Just wanted to see its handling in yesterday's winds. I'm not at all unhappy with my kite. It can be very gracefuly in those next to no wind days. I'm using the higher AoA setting.
I am aware of using redirection of the kite. But one question arises. As it Was a gust that lifted me- if I had redirected the kite, wouldn't that have possibly caused me to get lifted higher in that wind lift? My main concern was getting back down. My best days with this kite thus far are on the 5 mph wind days. I also have a Rush 2 300 pro for the windier days. I'm ordering an MBS Comp 90 today!
Also, thank-you all for your concerns. (I do realize these kites are powerful and dangerous, hence the name "Power Kite.") It is greatly appreciated as so many people around here in my area do not realize the power these monsters generate. They think, "Oh a kite, how CUTE!!!" LOL, I oughtta let them have a go at it.
Thanks everyone, Regards:roll:

furbowski - 11-2-2009 at 12:29 PM

one problem with wind is that the higher the wind speed, the gustier the gusts get... and inland the gusts are worse. If you were feeling a bit overpowered and left on high AoA, well... ballsy flying, mate. I would've gone down a notch on the AoA front.

seen the top hat video? look for one of the longer ones with the interview, the guy was trying to hang on and redirect so he could land safely, coming down is always the dilemma, with the big kites yes the gusts can continue and keep lifting you, you're basically in for the ride until the wind speed settles.

if your best days on the kite are the 5 mph wind days, well.... Maybe you've just walked away from a lesson that could have bitten quite a bit harder, it's worth considering that maybe you've found your upper end for that kite for the time being, and now it's time to fly more in the lower speeds.

but now you have a gap in your quiver, eh? $$$$$$!!!!!

(I should say I'm a relative newB-- I've never been more than about 10 feet up myself, I pack up or go down a size when my jumps get that large)

dylanj423 - 11-2-2009 at 04:53 PM

Hover... you will get some good use out of that kite this summer, for sure. I live in Austin, and that was my go-to kite as soon as I got it. It stayed that way for months. Our winds here in Central TX summer can be super light.

But right now is another story. I had me 7.7 out twice last week and packed it up pretty quickly. As gusty as it is these days, getting lofted is just part of flying that particular kite. The bridle adjustment on your makes it a little safer than mine (no adjustment),, but its still a beast.

All that said... I love flying that kite in enough wind to do some effortless jumps... so floaty.

Bladerunner - 11-2-2009 at 05:59 PM

Always size your kite for the gusts. You got hit by a gust. You also got caught with the kite in the WRONG spot ! THIS is exactly the reason you should keep your kite low when overpowered. When resting get in the habit of doing it with the kite off to one side. The higher the wind the lower the kite !

You can save yourself in a lofting by flying the kite. Pro's would do a kite loop. In a light lofting keeping the kite steady and overhead usually works ?

Glad you made it out alive!
It's been a real live and learn week !

Or you can fly like Alex Peterson !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzOCEDm73tM&feature=relat...

hoversmooth999 - 11-2-2009 at 06:52 PM

Hello Guys,
Well had some time to make it out today and with steady winds of 8 mph, and at times a little less, had a chance to give all three kites a round. Man what a blast. A little warm-up with the Rush and then some flying on my Beamer 5 and Crossfire. Flew the Beamer quite a bit more than the Cross as I tire pretty quickly on the big boy (Scuddings a WORKOUT). Man, I can't wait for my board to arrive Friday!!! Still love how lifty my Crossfire is though. Thanks everyone, and I'll be sure to get some pics when my jumps get a little more proficient with pretty landings. Happy Flying to All.
Regards,
Emilio:D

ikemiester - 13-2-2009 at 06:19 PM

After your board arrives, you may want to consider a harness if you don't already have one. If you plan to jump with the board I recommend a waist harness (what I ride with), however, if you plan to cruise, a good seat harness can be very nice

and yes I know $$$$$$

but welcome to the life of a kiteboarder!

hoversmooth999 - 14-2-2009 at 12:46 AM

Hello Everyone,
Thanks ikemiester I am considering a waist harness very soon. I'm still kind of green though and getting in practice on keeping the kite in flight without having to watch it 24/7. Once I have that down I'll feel a little more comfortable being hooked on. It'll be nice to give the arms a rest without having to land the kite. Ya'll have any recommendations on a good waist harness? Hopefully one that I could use not only with a bar setup but also with a two handle setup. I'd sure like to move up to a Depower after I get some more experience with my current kites. I went out today to try the board but there was not enough wind even for my 8.0:( at least not for boarding) I was able to fly the kite around though with some effort and finessing on the mains.:smilegrin: The flag at the field had no movement. Thank-you everybody for your tips. This can be an expensive sport but its good excercise. Maybe I'll sell the house! LOL. Thanks again and any info on the harness would be great.
Regards

dylanj423 - 14-2-2009 at 09:42 AM

Radsails seat harnesses sell for around $50... I have used mine for over a year, its still in good shape. I didnt really get the flying blind thing down until I started strapping into a kite. I recommend the 5m first:thumbup:

ikemiester - 14-2-2009 at 11:51 AM

To switch between bar and handles you'll need 2 different spreader bars, about $20 each, otherwise the bar will slip out, or your line between handles will get frayed. I recommend the dakine waist harnesses. They are a little more spendy, but do not ride up and aren't around the family jewels:frog:. I road a dakine seat harness for a while, and once you start jumping with it = :flaming:. I powerzone also has good harnesses for sale at his shop. Mystic harnesses have also been known to be extremely good.:thumbup:

hoversmooth999 - 14-2-2009 at 11:16 PM

Thanks Guys,
I'll be looking into a harness this next week. Took the board out today. Jeez this sure is not as easy as it looks. Got to forget the Wal-Mart RipStick knowledge and start over again.:flaming: It's tricky riding in both directions on these boards. I did manage to go down wind pretty well. I also took the Crossfire out and got some decent jumps in today. I'll be sure to post some photos soon.

hoversmooth999 - 15-2-2009 at 09:39 PM

Hello Everybody,
Man I got to learn that redirection. Got a nice 6-8 ft. jump today, but still had a rough landing. At least it was on my feet this time:yes: I also had some good progress on the board. Going to Port A. this week to look at some harnesses.
Regards

piku303 - 17-2-2009 at 11:59 PM

you should SERIOUSLY consider practicing jumps more with your smaller kites or in lighter winds before jumping 6-8ft up with the crossfire...go much higher and a poorly executed jump could mean something broken. although a well done jump will get you higher, it will also set you down nicer. practice pendulum jumping as high as you can get with your smaller kites and then apply the same principals to the larger kite. if you haven't mastered jumping on the smaller kite, it makes no sense to attempt it on a more powerful platform.

i came very close to breaking something a few months ago when a gust caught me, i was flying way overpowered. i was limping for a week. be careful and youll have legs to kite another day. :wee:

piku303 - 18-2-2009 at 12:01 AM

oh by the way, in regards to learning redirection, once you practice jumps with smaller kites and perfect your jumping form, the redirect literally becomes 2nd nature...you dont have to look up at the kite but instead get to look down at the ground and enjoy seeing how high you are and think about whether or not "this is going to hurt."

hoversmooth999 - 18-2-2009 at 04:12 AM

Hello all,
Good points piku303. I may add though that the wind down here on those last two outtings were so light I could barely get my 5.0 up and I may have exaggerated a wee bit on the 6-8 ft. jump part of my last post after confirmation from my buds. I guess it just feels like it's that high. Anyhow, I have taken to the advise of the many Pros on this post and stuck to the small kites on wind sufficient days. (Thanks a bunch guys). It's friendly communities like this that really make this sport enjoyable as opposed to some of the other hobbies and sports. Also, I made it out to Corpus Christi today and picked up a Da Kine Tabu waist harness. Brand new and for $99.00 bucks! Thanks for the recommendation ikemiester and dylanj423. Hope to strap into my Beamer tomorrow. Note: Texas sticker burrs +plus+ wheels =equals= three flats on my land board already! :(
Regards

dylanj423 - 18-2-2009 at 07:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by hoversmooth999
Texas sticker burrs +plus+ wheels =equals= three flats on my land board already! :(
Regards


Go get yourself some slime... Or another spot. Far as slime goes, I used to get a flat EVERY time I went to a local field to buggy. I put some slime in my tubes, and haven't had that problem since.

Then all you have to worry about is crashing yourself into them:wee:

hoversmooth999 - 18-2-2009 at 12:43 PM

Thanks dylanj423,
Gotta love Texas. Headed out to buy some.
Regards:)

ikemiester - 18-2-2009 at 07:03 PM

good choice on the harness.

ikemiester - 18-2-2009 at 07:04 PM

and btw you got at least one spreader bar right?

hoversmooth999 - 19-2-2009 at 03:21 AM

Good Day Everybody,
To ikemiester, Yes, my harness came with one. The salesman said it would work fine with my two handle set-up and also for a bar. I also purchased some thick (about 1/4 inch) spectra line to make strops for my handles. Wind today was dead but was able to get some turning practice on the 8.0. Had to keep it moving though or it would just deflate and fall to the ground. Yeah, really dead wind. Forecast calls for more wind tomorrow and I can then test out my Harness on the Beamer. Until then Cheers. :cool:

dylanj423 - 19-2-2009 at 08:01 AM

If you have a Whole Earth Market, or an REI near you, you can also use climbing rope. I use the 4mm size, and it has worked just fine. Its anout $1 per length

windsurfslice - 19-2-2009 at 08:11 AM

windsurfing downhaul cord laced through some clear tubing from hardware store with whipped loops on the end works well, very clean, tangle free. larks head on and off of handles quickly. tubing works well with roller harness bar and makes much easier to hook in/out reduces friction wear on line

windsurfslice - 19-2-2009 at 08:19 AM

btw, some critics prob gonna recommend a darwin award, but i hate static flying with harness, too restrictive with strop....so we wear weightlifting wrist straps and wrap around handles so we can hold on longer/easier in heavy air with reduced forearm fatigue. if you do it correctly you can still release cleanly and safely to bail out if necessary. this has allowed us to jump higher but i wouldn't recommend trying until your redirects are solid

hoversmooth999 - 19-2-2009 at 01:08 PM

Hello People,
Thanks for the info windsurfslice. I mainly purchased the harness to use in conjunction with my landboard though. I may practice a bit of static flying to get a feel for the rig, but I'm not planning on using it for static kite jumping. Oh, and thank-you for the support everone, this thread has really helped me and hit off very well. Keep the pointers coming. It's a Beamer and Rush kite day with winds in the lower teens today.
Wait, do I hear the JackA$$ song beginning to Start? :eureka: :roll:
Cheers:karate:

ikemiester - 3-3-2009 at 06:15 PM

For your future notice, once you start flying with the harness and handles in higher winds you will fray the cord that goes between the handles very quickly, so you will eventually want to look into a spreader bar with a pulley.:bouncy:

Chicagokitejumping - 6-11-2009 at 06:06 PM

I think 8.0 is too big with 12-15MPH !! if you dont have exp jump i have a crossfire II 6,5 and i jump pretty smooth with 10 MPH and i weight 163 and this is the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpD2dabndnE

Dont go with the kite and zenith with +12mph you will be lifted , do it in soft sand


I have the old crossfire 6.3 the old and with 18-20MPH big jumps and no problem with crash but always in soft SAND

Good luck next time

stetson05 - 6-11-2009 at 07:19 PM

can't read second page

cheezycheese - 7-11-2009 at 05:18 AM

:duh: cant see second page...

kitejumper - 7-11-2009 at 05:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by piku303
oh by the way, in regards to learning redirection, once you practice jumps with smaller kites and perfect your jumping form, the redirect literally becomes 2nd nature...you dont have to look up at the kite but instead get to look down at the ground and enjoy seeing how high you are and think about whether or not "this is going to hurt."
i agree! also u might want to jump over sand--then if u crash at least u might not get hurt that bad

Jack1988 - 12-11-2009 at 03:21 AM

Redirecting will have you sorted.

I hate getting lofted...most of the time.

Some say go out in 20 and above winds but what they dont realise is that we are flying fixed bridle :o

Jack1988 - 12-11-2009 at 03:23 AM

yes and jump on soft sand if its possible, if you are going to carry on jumping on grass at least get a helmet and knee pads.