Power Kite Forum - twisting and tangles in lines

twisting and tangles in lines

Brian - 14-2-2009 at 03:28 PM

Im sure this topic was brought up numerous times but I have been having problems with my lines twisting and tangling up. It seems that every time I pull out the kite I spend 20-30 min. with the lines before I get to fly. Is there any tips or suggestions that I can use when packing my kite away or unpacking. Or is this something I just have to figure out myself by practice. I fly with handles bye the way.

lunchbox - 14-2-2009 at 04:12 PM

Used to have that problem all the time...especially sucks when you only have a limited time to fly!

I think a lot of people on here swear by parapacking (instructions can be found on racekites.com), but I never had much luck with it...I think I might have to try it again...

But, I personally swear by handle wrapping.

Real quickly...when packing down...handle wrap toward your kite. Once you reach the kite, fold the kite together and put the handles on top of the kite and roll up.

When unpacking...unroll the kite...but don't spread out yet...walk back letting the lines roll of the handle. Plant your stake...attach the little rope ends on the handles and walk back to your kite. Note - the lines at this point might look like they will tangle..don't worry...open your kite and walk back to your handles...the opening of the kite should catch the wind and make the lines taught (spelling?).

You should then be ready to fly....ocassionally you might have to do one or two twists but that's about it...

I'm usually flying in about 2mins...

Good Luck!

WolfWolfee - 14-2-2009 at 04:31 PM

I only para pack. I lay the handles on the ground and just walk away the lines pulls out of the bag nicely if you pack correctly.

f0rgiv3n - 14-2-2009 at 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WolfWolfee
I only para pack. I lay the handles on the ground and just walk away the lines pulls out of the bag nicely if you pack correctly.

I parapack every time as well :yes:

revpaul - 14-2-2009 at 05:32 PM

parapacking is easy and quick. can't figure out why i don't do it:puzzled:
my system is to unwrap everything the same way i wrap it up.
ie.
*when wrapping around, or figure eight-ing, on/off handles-
i always hold handles in my left hand, with top of handles up and wrap/unwrap with right hand.
*quicker and just as effective-
roll up kite first. then, while holding rolled kite upright, walk towards handles while simply wrapping lines around kite. *i do not wrap the lines in the middle of rolled kite. i wrap lines close to the top end of the rolled up kite so i know which end is up when unwrapping. i hold kite in left hand and wrap/unwrap with right hand.

Paul

flexiblade - 14-2-2009 at 08:51 PM

A simple technique for para-packing is as follows -

1. when your done flying stake your handles to you kite stake
2. take your kite bag and walk over to your kite
3. fold up your kite in any way that contains the kite's bridles within the kite
4. place kite in bag - make sure that the kite doesn't fit too snuggly - you want a little breathing room on one side in between the bag and the kite
5. walk the bag back to your handles
6. starting with the lines hanging out of the bag stuff it (in about 1 1/2' increments) into the one side that you have made room next to the kite - you will be stuffing with one hand while guiding the lines and holding the bag open with the other
7. when you have finished stuffing the lines and have just the handle to pack stuff the handles on the opposite side of the kite away from where you had been stuffing the lines.

Now when you want to fly open your bag, take out your handles, leave the bag on the ground where you want the kite to launch from, walk to where you think it will be safe to stand for launching while holding the handles - the lines will miraculously pull out untangled from your bag. After the lines are out set up your kite the way you would normally.

That's it.

NPWfever - 14-2-2009 at 09:17 PM

I wrap my lines on a winder, parapacking always tangles them, and around the handles takes too long IMO, I'm lazy haha. If you use a winder the most important thing is to remember to is to wind in an X pattern, its hard to explain in words, look for it in pictures.

And is that you flying a PG? I'm guessing by the canopy AoA it's a PPG? I fly PG myself, I'm 17 btw, awesome to be into it so young =D and I fly an Ozone Buzz Z. Where do you live? I freefly though, I want to learn PPG, but you know a $5000 motor kinda...kills that =(

Scudley - 15-2-2009 at 05:54 AM

Sky Country kites come with a little nylon handle bag. Drop the handles in the bag. Separate them and wind your lines in a figure 8. Works great and you can open your kite to dry it without ending up with 120 m of line in your living room. Way faster than winding around handles and you do not need to hope that the person who put your kite away wound them the same way you do.
S

acampbell - 15-2-2009 at 07:04 AM

Parapacking works fine. I don't do it because sometimes at home I may want to un-pack the kite for cleaning, and that means unpacking all the lines again.

I wind figure eight on handles not because it prevents a twist, but because it uses more line per wrap and therefore is faster. Wrapping the kite killers around both handles at the bend first creates more bulk to wrap around, also making it faster.

If the kite remains stationary on the ground while you wrap, and the handles remain in one hand while you wrap with the other, it is mathematically, physically and philosophically impossible to introduce a true twist (360 degrees or more), or a real tangle in the lines- unless you are performing gymnastics at the same time.

Here's what CAN happen: Due to un-even tension while wrapping, a momentary *local* twist can occur at several places along the lines, often aided by the stickiness of sizing or dyes on the line, especially in new lines. They are not really twisted, just locally interwoven a bit. when you unwrap and lay out the lines, they LOOK like they are twisted along their length. Then you go to twist the handles to "undo" the false twist, introducing a real twist that was never there in the first place, and then it's all downhill from there.

When I unroll the kite and take out the handles, I leave the kite on the ground folded tips to center, about a handle-length wide, and toss a couple of water bottles on the trailing edge to keep it from unfurling in the wind. Then I un-wind upwind and stake the handles. Back to the kite, I unfurl the kite sitting on the trailing edge, inflated but staked by the brakes. The force of inflation will pull the lines apart and they will run straight and true back to the handles. Any REAL twist- caused by moving handles around between sessions- will be right there at the handles, will be self evident, and are easily un-done in moment.

The only time I get into trouble with this is when I loan the kite to someone and they wrap it with a different motion, or worse, bow-tie the kite, wrap lines and never correct it before putting the kite away.

dylanj423 - 15-2-2009 at 08:07 AM

Ditto, acampbell. Takes 3 mins to wrap up, unroll and flying in 1 min.

*edit* crazy how it comes back when you loan it out, huh?

coreykite - 16-2-2009 at 11:51 AM

Hey Sailors,

Brian didn't ask for another way to wind lines.
He didn't ask your favorite way to wind your lines.

He asked if there is a secret to winding lines so they don't come out tangled or twisted next time.

Yes.

There is a secret.

(Now, he'll come running back asking what is is.

Too bad there is a one question limit.)

Oh... All right.

Here it is:
Winding and unwinding should be a mirror-image of each other.

"Wax-on... Wax-off."

Whether you wind using a figure-8 pattern around your handles, or simply wind the lines round-and-round... They must come off in a mirror-image of how they went on.

Winding up right-handed?
Hold you handles in your left hand and wind your lines clock-wise.
Un-winding is done holding the handles in your left hand and allowing the lines to unwind counter-clock-wise.
If you wind the lines over the top of the handles, they must come off over the top.

Remember, with soft foil kites, we don't remove the lines and handles from the kite, as we do with stickies.

Try this and let us know how it works.
After you have a couple of successes, others here can confuse you even more with their special ways to wind lines.
Just ask 'em.

Safen Up! Buggy On!

Often wrong... Never in doubt"

the coreylama

carltb - 16-2-2009 at 01:16 PM

figure 8, then it doesnt matter how you unwind them. also if you take the lines off the kite then tie your left and your right lines together.

dylanj423 - 16-2-2009 at 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by carltb
figure 8, then it doesnt matter how you unwind them.

I have had experiences that prove otherwise. It is as coreylama said... Unwinding must be precisely a mirror image of the Winding. However you wind, you must do exactly the opposite.

I have loaned out my kite to others who know exactly how I pack my gear, only to unwrap it exactly as I always unwrap it, to find a 20m length of braided rope!!

It was a figure eight... it looked exactly as I pack them up, but when I undid it, it just wasnt right. Not through any fault of the person wrapping it up, just that when I undid it, I undid with the wrong movements.

I still like the figure eight that carltb, acambell, and myself use... but the secret was revealed with coreylamas post. Wax on, wax off.

Thanks for catching that corey... I missed it.

furbowski - 16-2-2009 at 02:19 PM

it's not just different techniques for different folks, it's also different for me for low winds / high winds and grass / sand.

in low winds (max 15mph) where I most often fly on beaches I simply use the beach sand to anchor the kite and fold the tips in towards the middle, then again until it's only about three or four feet wide, then I just flake the lines out on top of the folded kite in a figure eight pattern about two and a half feet wide, then I fold the kite over again on top of the flaked lines and pack away into a tight roll with the handles in the middle still connected up. To fly again, I just unfold the kite enough to expose the lines, weigh down the trailing edge, and walk the handles out. I usually need to shake the lines a bit to get them all to separate. If I get a loop caught up in another loop while walking the lines out I stop before I pull it tight and go back to fix it, happens about 40% of the time. I rarely get any tangles this way, but the important thing is to not disturb the lines at all -- leave them flaked out inside the kite -- if I do have to unroll the kite and open it up for a repair or a bridle mod I need to put the lines on a winder otherwise I will get huge tangles next time out.

this works in low winds on sand, in high winds the lines get blown around too much and then I'm using a winder. On grass it works OK but I need weights, and the lines tend to pick up more junk from the grassy field.

Now... I've never seen another person do it this way, and I'm not actually suggesting anybody do it this way -- it works for me because I'm used to flaking out lines on boats and for climbing, but without that background I would be on a winder or parapacking.

I mention this mostly because of the comments above to "find your own way" and whatever that is for you then keep it consistent -- and my way has its problems but it works good for me.

I hate winding lines around the handles -- but that's just personal preference. The bag scudley mentions works well, though, makes the handles work a lot better as a winder.

parapacking I don't like, I get more tangles that way than with my method. The lines are too small and slippy to stay down inside the bag. Maybe if i put more time into it then I'd make it work.

one thing I have tried is folding the lines across my hand before stuffing them into the kite parapack style. Nice big folds, go one way across my hand, let them hang down in a loop at least a foot, then go back across my hand to the other side, let the lines hang down in a loop again, then back across the my hand to the first side. NO loops around the hand -- that guarantees tangles. you end up with all the lines across your palm with loops hanging down both side of your hand, then shove that into your kite, making sure the two sets of loops don't touch. again, this works well for me, but your mileage will vary!

the important thing is to be consistent with whatever it is you do, and take your time! every time I try to do it in a hurry I get tangles!

again, I'm NOT saying do it this way, I'm just putting up an alternate method to prove the point that there's many different ways to do it! The important thing is to be consistent ( wax on, wax off) and just a little bit patient and methodical. And also, high winds and lots of junk on the ground makes it way harder, that's a good time to do something slower but bombproof like winders or a handle wrap.

and yes, loaning a kite out almost always results in tangles!

coreykite - 16-2-2009 at 03:29 PM

Hey Sailors,
Not wanting to wander further than needed in the earlier post, I neglected to follow through on the secret for loaning kites and NEVER have twisted lines.

NEVER! Ever! Ever!!

Want to know?

How much is it worth to you?

Really? I'm not impressed.

Still... For the sake of the children...

I love to loan out gear.
I hate having my lines become a huge mess.
So I use one rule.
Bring it back flying!

It's that simple.

Bring it back flying, land it and bag it.
Leave the handles on the stake and lines out.
Thank you.

It takes only a couple of minutes for me to wind a line set.
The peace and tranquility is priceless.

AND my lines come out like I like them every time.

So simple it is almost magic.

Safen Up! Buggy On!

"Often wrong... Never in doubt"

the coreylama

acampbell - 16-2-2009 at 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by coreykite

So I use one rule.
Bring it back flying!

It's that simple.

Bring it back flying, land it and bag it.
Leave the handles on the stake and lines out.

So simple it is almost magic.

Safen Up! Buggy On!

"Often wrong... Never in doubt"

the coreylama

Hard to do from the back of a UPS truck, but it paints a funny picture...