Power Kite Forum

??? Flysurfer specs...

revpaul - 21-3-2009 at 11:38 AM

there's no handy-dandy wind range calculator for Flysurfer kites is there?
i have been comparing older/newer/different model FS kites with my 12m Pulse 2 and things don't really add up.
12m Pulse 2 / 17m Speed
min wind = 5 kts / min wind=5 kts
under power = 5-8 kts / under power=5-6 kts
normal power=8-29 kts / normal power=7-17 kts

so,
looking at the "normal power" numbers which, i assume, represents the 'usable' power for traction purposes.
i understand the lower top end of "normal power" but i don't get the 1 kts advantage at the low end of "normal power"
Speed is different model with higher AR, sure enough, but an extra 5 square meters of canopy is only netting 1kts extra of low end grunt over my 12m Pulse 2.
*specs also state that the Pulse2 14m has no "normal power" advantage over the 12m Pulse2.
what are the' real world' bottom end grunt advantage numbers for the 17m vs 12m? i realize a Speed(1.5) has more lift/float, speed, and upwind performance. i'm simply thinking about bottom end grunt for skiing in low winds.
is the 12m Pulse2 just that great of a kite?:tumble:

Paul

revpaul - 21-3-2009 at 11:46 AM

oops

powerzone - 21-3-2009 at 01:14 PM

that low end on the pulse in the above posting is way off... the 12 wont turn on till around 13knots but you'll probably be underpowered. Pulses work best in the mid-upper part of their wind range.

the S1.5 17m wind range is about right

DenisLaMenace - 21-3-2009 at 02:24 PM

may be the range also include snowkite, so it is way different on water

IMO on water a Pulse2 12m would be fun starting above 15knots for me at 185 lbs. This is just a guess.

revpaul - 21-3-2009 at 06:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by powerzone
that low end on the pulse in the above posting is way off... the 12 wont turn on till around 13knots but you'll probably be underpowered. Pulses work best in the mid-upper part of their wind range.

the S1.5 17m wind range is about right

iirc-(at 180 lbs) i need ~ 13.5 kts/25 kp/h to get moving on skiis.
if the 17m Speed 1.5 numbers are good, I'm happy:singing::spin:

revpaul - 21-3-2009 at 06:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DenisLaMenace
may be the range also include snowkite, so it is way different on water

IMO on water a Pulse2 12m would be fun starting above 15knots for me at 185 lbs. This is just a guess.

pretty darn close:singing:
some of FS specs noted wind ranges for 75 kilos. i assumed the specs were rated for water use. if so it's odd because doesn't water usage allow for higher wind ranges? thus would cut down more of the low end grunt numbers.

bigsteve - 21-3-2009 at 08:44 PM

i used to have a 14m pulse2 and a 17m SA1.5... the 14m pulse could not touch the 17m. the speed likes to go up wind much much more, making it easier in lighter wind. plus. when im riding the 17 in like 12ish winds it is performing and producing plenty of power, while the 14m would fly, it wouldnt produce much excitement on the mtn board.

For me.. I'd rather be in mid range of the kites wind range because it flies and performs a heck of a lot better than at the lower range.. when it gets too much, land and downsize.

Rev did you find a speed 17? hah I've still got the SA1.5 if you are thinking of going that route.

revpaul - 21-3-2009 at 09:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bigsteve
i used to have a 14m pulse2 and a 17m SA1.5... the 14m pulse could not touch the 17m. the speed likes to go up wind much much more, making it easier in lighter wind. plus. when im riding the 17 in like 12ish winds it is performing and producing plenty of power, while the 14m would fly, it wouldnt produce much excitement on the mtn board.

For me.. I'd rather be in mid range of the kites wind range because it flies and performs a heck of a lot better than at the lower range.. when it gets too much, land and downsize.

Rev did you find a speed 17? hah I've still got the SA1.5 if you are thinking of going that route.

hi Steve,
finally made contact with other seller this past thursday. my nephew is in their area and is going to pick up gear for me (i hope).
i saw an ad (just below yours and John's SA ads at ikitesurf) for a 17 Speed 1.5 (Powerzone mod and FDS) RTF for 500 shipped. couldn't resist. i thought i'd try it out for size/fit first.
Paul

AD72 - 21-3-2009 at 09:49 PM

Kites should be rated in pull force at different wind speeds. I am sure they have this engineering information or could easily test and determine it. That way it is open to less interpretation by the marketing department. Also they could have a rider weight and land, water, snow surface variables charted.

revpaul - 22-3-2009 at 07:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AD72
Kites should be rated in pull force at different wind speeds. I am sure they have this engineering information or could easily test and determine it. That way it is open to less interpretation by the marketing department. Also they could have a rider weight and land, water, snow surface variables charted.

that would be a so super sweet utility to have access to.
i imagine 'they' have all necessary data to build such application. maybe if enough of us ask they will build us one:singing:
Paul

bigsteve - 22-3-2009 at 12:35 PM

I dont think it would be that easy to test 'pull.' it would depends on a lot of things.. how the kite is being flown. apparent wind, location in the window. it'd be a hard test to perform and have any meaning between kites since they all fly differently. Some kites generate a lot more power with apparent wind than others. It would be cool info to have, but i just think it would be challenging to make it meaningful to compare kites.

bloah - 23-3-2009 at 09:41 AM

From my experience: I weight 150 pounds
Bottom - 8 knots
Top 30 knots.

Again depends on which board you use. I got out on a surf board and keeping upwind at 7 knots.

on spleene door I need around 9-10 knots. and top end would be around 15 knots.
On my 148 board, I can go downwindinding at 8 knots, upwind at 10-11 knots.
On my 148 board, I was in Cuba in 30 knots and while it was mental, I survived the kite session for 6 hours. I just had only one kite, and I wanted to kite.

DenisLaMenace - 23-3-2009 at 10:17 AM

30 knots ?? avg or some peaks, because it's not the same

30 knots at 150lbs on a Pulse2 12m. come on bloah, you wouldn't even touch the water.



Quote:
Originally posted by bloah
From my experience: I weight 150 pounds
Bottom - 8 knots
Top 30 knots.

Again depends on which board you use. I got out on a surf board and keeping upwind at 7 knots.

on spleene door I need around 9-10 knots. and top end would be around 15 knots.
On my 148 board, I can go downwindinding at 8 knots, upwind at 10-11 knots.
On my 148 board, I was in Cuba in 30 knots and while it was mental, I survived the kite session for 6 hours. I just had only one kite, and I wanted to kite.

nwsurfwakeskate - 23-3-2009 at 11:14 AM

I used to have the 12m Pulse 2

my weight tends to stay in the 180-195lbs range and the pulse needed a good 15+ mph to get going. 18+ it started to get fun. above 25 it started to get scary.

It had great pop in my opinion but wouldn't point up wind as well as powerzone on his speed 2 12m or our other buddy Josh on his 13m P3

I'd say my 15m Psycho 4 has filled the gap of the 12m pulse pretty well. it basically has the same top end but gains a few mph on the low end.

I think I can get moving in about 14mph winds on a big board with the P4 15m

DenisLaMenace - 23-3-2009 at 11:25 AM

that sounds very right to me :thumbup:


Quote:
Originally posted by nwsurfwakeskate
I used to have the 12m Pulse 2

my weight tends to stay in the 180-195lbs range and the pulse needed a good 15+ mph to get going. 18+ it started to get fun. above 25 it started to get scary.

It had great pop in my opinion but wouldn't point up wind as well as powerzone on his speed 2 12m or our other buddy Josh on his 13m P3

I'd say my 15m Psycho 4 has filled the gap of the 12m pulse pretty well. it basically has the same top end but gains a few mph on the low end.

I think I can get moving in about 14mph winds on a big board with the P4 15m

powerzone - 23-3-2009 at 11:38 AM

bloah has a 12m Psycho4 ..... not a pulse2 12m... i think he was talking about the Psycho.

DenisLaMenace - 23-3-2009 at 12:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by powerzone
bloah has a 12m Psycho4 ..... not a pulse2 12m... i think he was talking about the Psycho.


John

bloah had the Pulse2 12m until lately. He only had his P4 for a short while.

even though, he would be still crazy to go out in 30kn with a P4 12m.

what you think?

nwsurfwakeskate - 23-3-2009 at 02:51 PM

if its blowing 30kts I'll be at home on the couch staying warm hoping the power doesn't go out ;)

nwsurfwakeskate - 23-3-2009 at 02:54 PM

I think you should maybe reread what bloah was saying. it sounded like the wind was peaking around 30kts and maybe sustained winds were much lower then that.

I'd say the 12 would be rideable in conditions like that as long as you're ready to get yarded any time a gust shows up.

also it sounds like maybe he's saying that 30kts was the max like 31kts and you're gettin dragged down wind with only your ankles in the water?

just my take on that based off of what the 15m feels like

nwsurfwakeskate - 23-3-2009 at 02:56 PM

I should also mention the p4 points up wind much better then the pulse 2 in my opinion

powerzone - 23-3-2009 at 07:56 PM

yeah... any 12m in 30knots is a bit crazy....

i'd do the 10m psycho4 in 30, but not a 12....

bloah - 23-3-2009 at 09:14 PM

YES I DID PULSE 12 IN 30 knots.

It was avaraging 25 knots, and squalling at least 30 knots, and on couple occassions I had to pull on safety.
Kite fully depowered, and it was still lifting me at zenith at any given point. I have a video, ill post later.

At times I couldnt move upwind, only downwid, because to much downwind pull. I was doing walk of shame upwind in 30 knots because of that, and my friends were dragging me bacwards, and we still couldn't move upwind of two people pulling me upwind and me trying to run upwind.

the water was flat/choppy.

Ones when I pulled the safety , i bursted 3 little connections lines.

Anyhow, two hours later I managed to get some control from this squalls, I just was going almost straight downwind. And when it lulls I get back upwind. The jumps were crazy! Got lofted couple of times.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=40562299&l=53964f0...

it was quite scary. But wind was sideshore, so the worst that happened at ones I got dragged downwind couple of kilometers. I was lucky the beach was 20 kilometers long at Varadero Cuba.

Overall, Next time I will take smaller kites to Cuba too.

DenisLaMenace - 24-3-2009 at 06:39 AM

Avg 25k peak at 30 is not the same still you were taking risks. Seems like your were not kiting but more trying to.

Just been to Varadero too 2 weeks ago at the Barcelo Marina Palace. I really enjoyed the place.

I had 3 kites with me: P4 10, 15, and SA 19.

I had the chance to fly them all. We had light winds in the mornings, and quite strong winds end of afternoon with the thermals up to a steady 25 knots on one day. I really enjoyed flying the P4 10m in the 20-25 range.

Next time I have my 8m as well in case. We never know.

bloah - 24-3-2009 at 08:21 AM

buzz, if you were at varadero, you must remember the way it gusts there. It is more like a squall.
I've been at Marina Palace too, I didn't stay there but kited on that same beach.
Nevertheless, taking risk I were, next time I should bring a smaller kite instead of a boombox, lol