Power Kite Forum

Peter Lynn buggy durability

BeamerBob - 15-4-2009 at 06:15 AM

There is some talk on another thread about PL buggy parts cracking. Instead of further taking that thread off topic, I thought it best to start a dedicated thread.

There is a guy in dubai that rides his buggies on sand dunes out in the desert of UAE (Sand Yeti on another forum) that has a burr under his downtube with PL. He routinely rides his buggies in a very stressful environment with sharp transitions at the bottoms of the dunes and such. He complains at every opportunity about how inadequate PL buggies are but it seems that he was using them in an environment they were not designed for. Are there buggiers out there that have developed cracks and breaks in PL buggy parts that were using them on normal flowing terrain and not generating 2-3 g's at times in them? Angus has had his bigfoot for about 5 months now with no issues and he puts some miles on his buggy. He has had a comp XR for years without a failure. I know of others that have had PL buggys for a long time with no issues. When I ordered my bigfoot parts, my front fork had an anomaly from the mfg process. PL diagnosed the problem via pictures I took and shipped me a new fork right away that corrected the issue. I couldn't have asked for better customer support.
I hate to see a company get a bad rap for something that isn't deserved so I'm asking about what conditions were present and what typical use was over the life of the parts before a failure if a failure has been observed.

action jackson - 15-4-2009 at 06:40 AM

If my PL xr is holding up, everyones should! I ride very hard and fast on mine and have not developed any problems! Back when i started bugging i did experience a few issues with a PL race but since they have gone to the PL xr those issues have been addressed. I put my Pl xr through quite abit at NABX this yr, powerslides at 50mph + and achieved a top speed of 59.6 in it! Ths is with 2 y.o. bearings that see the worst salt and sand around.I feel confident in PL xr and know i will receive the support if needed...........aj

csa_deadon - 15-4-2009 at 07:15 AM

I'm thinkin if any buggy can hold up to the abuse dished out at NABX (riding hard and fast), it can't be all that bad.

Bladerunner - 15-4-2009 at 09:08 AM

The brace on the front fork has failed for a couple of our riders. Both are pretty big boys and ride hard but the point is a weak spot when you look at it !

Scudley ended up putting together a whole new front end.

Bucky - 15-4-2009 at 11:31 AM

No problems yet, but I do see a number of potential weak point. I actually retrofitted a Libre swan-neck downtube onto my P.L., so I don't have any issues with that part. Comparitively however, the strength and quality of the rest of my P.L. buggy is not even close to that Libre part.

For example, the construction of the P.L. front forks for Bigfoot tires frankly scare the hell out of me. Far too lightly built (in my opinion) to withstand the extra weight and torque that Bigfoots can generate in rough environments. Granted, I haven't had any problems yet with it, but it worries me. Maybe I'll eventually just buy a Libre front fork to go with my downtube. Who knows....In a few years...........The whole damned buggy.

awindofchange - 15-4-2009 at 12:28 PM

One thing to remember is that there are several different models of the PL Buggies.

The Comp ST (Standard)
The Comp XR+
The Bigfoot XR+

The Comp XR+ and Bigfoot XR+ have quite a few strengths over the standard. The main and most obvious is the rear axle bolts. The XR+ uses 20mm, the Comp only uses 12mm. Other improvements is that the XR+ models have thicker walls in the tubing, allowing for stronger welds and overall strength improvements.

The Buggies are designed for specific uses, not for extreme hard core riding and excessive g-forces. It is a very good quality freestyle buggy.

We sell tons of PL buggies all year round, we also stock spare parts and our buggies are used in local parks as well as the extremes of the dry lake beds. I will say that we sell very few frame parts and usually it is only bearings, wheels, tires or the occasional axle bolts. I know of riders here that have been buggying for over 10 years with the same comp buggy with zero failures. Not just one person but many! I have been using a comp XR+ for over 5 years and use this buggy as a demo for new riders as well as a spare buggy for racers to play tag in and do freestyle. It has held up perfectly with zero failures and I weigh 240.

If someone is breaking (consistantly) a PL buggy then the ONLY explanation is that they are pushing the buggy far beyond its designed limits or they are trying to degrade the PL buggy because they happen to be selling or representing another competing brand. The PL buggies are AWESOME, very well built and PLENTY STRONG!!! Perhaps that person should buy one of our Ivanpah buggies instead....it comes with a 5 year warranty and they won't break that one! :)

Just take a look at the numbers. The most commonly sold buggy as well as the most recognizable and most used buggy in the history of buggying is the PL buggy - heck, PL is the grandfather (and inventor?) of buggying as we know it. It didn't get that type of reputation from being a piece of junk. PL buggies are more than capable and plenty strong and for the price, the best bargain on the market today.

Just my two cents!

Bladerunner - 15-4-2009 at 02:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by awindofchange

If someone is breaking (consistantly) a PL buggy then the ONLY explanation is that they are pushing the buggy far beyond its designed limits or they are trying to degrade the PL buggy because they happen to be selling or representing another competing brand. The PL buggies are AWESOME, very well built and PLENTY STRONG!!! Perhaps that person should buy one of our Ivanpah buggies instead....it comes with a 5 year warranty and they won't break that one! :)






Uh OH !

I hope you aren't talking about ME in this statement.

I am NOT anti - Peter Lynn buggies ! I was just pointing out that we have had 2 in about 10 failures from hard riding here.

awindofchange - 15-4-2009 at 03:08 PM

No, not talking about you specifically Bladerunner, more towards the person on the other forum that is constantly (and strongly) bashing PL quality.

Basically anyone could potentially break any buggy on the market if that is their main purpose or if they attempt to use the said buggy beyond its designed limits.

I just get a little riled up when someone starts saying a certain product is junk because it failed them when they attempted to use that product for something that it wasn't designed for. Example: saying that a Snap-On screwdriver is garbage because it broke when they were trying to pry off a welded plate of steel with it.

If it breaks when you over stress the buggy then that is to be somewhat expected, it wasn't designed to handle that type of stress. You can't claim the buggy to be total garbage because it didn't hold up to the stresses you happened to place on it. Same with buggy jumping, if you jump with a stock PL or Flexi buggy your most likely going to be bending side rails and axles. You can't damn the buggy because of this, it wasn't designed for that type of stress. People who do jump with their buggies will add in tons of reinforcements to help take care of the added stresses involved.

I guess it all comes down to the old saying "You get what you pay for". If you want a buggy that can handle the massive amounts of stresses you are going to be putting on it (over and above what would be considered normal riding and use) then you will have to either reinforce the buggy yourself, or, pay someone to do this or just build your own buggy to your own specifications.

I wouldn't buy a Ferrari and then claim it garbage because it isn't capable of winning the Baja 1000. :) :)

Hope that helps clarify my thinking...again this is all my personal opinion and not designed to single anyone out or personally attack anyone else. :)

kitedemon - 15-4-2009 at 05:25 PM

I own a PL XR+ I have not had anything break nor does it look like anything is going to. I have had a bend in the rear axle. This causes the rear wheels to wobble. Just to qualify I ride on a lumpy beach and am a big guy, six foot four and 225 pounds. I am not overly hard on the buggy I don't jump or anything. In an effort to be constructive I'd recommend that if you own a pl buggy (not the folding one...) every so often flip the rear axle so that the small bends will be straightened out.

Bladerunner - 15-4-2009 at 06:42 PM

If I'm right you can flip the axle and balance the bending on a P.L. ?

I'm glad it's not me you felt was down on ANY buggy. One look at the one I own clears up how important a quality ride is to me ! A P.L. standard would be a big step up ! :yes:

kitedemon - 15-4-2009 at 07:27 PM

Yes that is what I was trying to say. If I had flipped it regularly I likely would not have quite the bend I currently have. My girlfriend is riding it at the moment, so it is not bending at all as she is a lot lighter than I.

ripsessionkites - 15-4-2009 at 10:31 PM

i believe in the PL quality as well, it was bad years ago, but better now.

for regular use, and on grass / smooth surfaces they work well.

for us locally, the park is bumpy and what not. im super light and have broken may parts, but its all due to the terrain we travel across.

vwbrian - 16-4-2009 at 01:17 AM

I had a problem with the rear axel on mine. There is a seam on the tubes that connect to the side rails and when I put the axel on with the seam up it split. I did notice on a newer PL buggy the seam was not there. So anyone who has the seam it is not advisable to flip it. Check yours and make sure if you have a seam to put in facing down.

ripsessionkites - 16-4-2009 at 02:44 AM

Can you send me a pic so i can investigate. how you liking your new BF Hardcore? does your GF like the PL now?

kitedemon - 16-4-2009 at 04:27 AM

Interesting mine has no seem at all, and after flipping the axle a number of times it is almost straight again. I really don't ride it much but Tanya (my Gf) rides it a lot but she is half my weight. She loves it, it is also the right size I always looked a big silly in it like an adult trying to ride a kites trike! :lol: I don't have a problem with the build quality at all, I just think that if you are a big guy perhaps a bigger buggy is a better idea. The only thing I would change on the pl is the rear axle attachment. I don't trust the seat to hold it on. Oh and the seat too. I guess they have I'd love to see the new one.

kitedemon - 16-4-2009 at 04:36 AM

:smilegrin: that is with the extra long downtube as well!

kitedemon - 16-4-2009 at 04:38 AM

hmmm I'll try again to post that pic it didn't upload it :no:

vwbrian - 16-4-2009 at 06:00 AM

Hello Ricardo
I will get you a picture of it once I get my personal computer working (using work Computer)

I haven't had a chance to try out the Libre Hardcore yet:(
My Girlfriend wants to paint the PL purple and then race me. She says purple is the fastest.

ripsessionkites - 17-4-2009 at 01:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by vwbrian
Hello Ricardo
I will get you a picture of it once I get my personal computer working (using work Computer)

I haven't had a chance to try out the Libre Hardcore yet:(
My Girlfriend wants to paint the PL purple and then race me. She says purple is the fastest.


damn rights, so are pink buggies. trying to get Ruudje to built me Kitebuggy Mama's ApeXX in PINK.

Sand-Yeti - 22-4-2009 at 12:05 AM

I'm BeamerBob's so called PL complainer from Dubai.

My first buggy was a standard PL & then I upgraded to a PL comp.
Beamerbob is correct in writing that our buggying terrain is tough on buggies.
However, every single part of the PL's fell apart. Try to think of something that didn't & I will post you a pic showing the broken or cracked part.

We'd go for one buggying session and then I'd spend my evenings repairing and reinforcing them for the following weekend.
However, after just two sessions buggying on a flat surface the side rails on the PL comp. bent.
One of my friends who bought a PL comp the same time as me also had the side rails bend just buggying on a flat surface but after 3 sessions. He weighs 65 kgs & me 85 kgs

The Chinese & Korean wheel bearings on both buggies sounded like coffee grinders after one session but putting in a reputable brand is cheap enough so it wasn't a big issue and never had that problem again.

Front forks, downtubes, rear axles, wheels, seats all fell apart.
The annoying thing about PL is that they failed to respond to any of my communications. I did go through my local Dubai kite retailer concerning the failure on the side rails because it was absolutely clear that the thin tubing was just inadequate for even easy buggy riding. My retailer received a terse reply that the buggy was abused. No effort was made by PL to identify if this was correct or not. I was prepared to send the parts back to him for analysis but he wasn't interested.

From then on, the after-sales support from PL continued to be non-existent for any of us Dubai buggiers.
Our local kite retailer was a decent chap who felt sorry for us and had the side rails repaired and reinforced at his cost.

None of us will use PL buggies here because of the bad experiences. They are just not man enough to stand up to our terrain. Note that none of us are into freestyle buggying.

Unfortunately, one of the girl buggiers still owns a PL and rides quite sedately on the desert plains. She's not even been in the dunes with it. She was buggying along about 25 mph when a front wheel bearing fell out due to the poor design. Luckily, she managed to stay in the buggy to avoid any injury.
I'd been fairly quiet about PL shortcomings for a long time as I'd put PL behind me like a distant nightmare.

However, this front wheel failure brought all the old PL wounds to the surface again, so I posted that on a UK kite forum recently. This time, a PL rep come back at me trying to defend the PL product.

In a way I was happy about that because it was the first time anyone from PL had a dialogue with me. That person would never admit that the product had ever had any serious flaws.

Over the years discussing with PL users in the UK, I identified that the NZ built PL's held together a lot better than the ones he had produced in China. We in Dubai received the Chinese buggies. Obviously, PL had moved some of his production to China in order to reduce his manufacturing costs. i.e. building very cheap buggies to enhance his own profits. In the short term, I guess that worked out but sustaining business with inferior product like that was bound to affect his sales. I guess that's why he felt the need to improve over his earlier product.

As I said, PL will never sell another buggy in my part of the world because everyone here knows me and knows what bad experiences my friends & I have had with our PLs.

Before you all jump on me trying to defend PL, be aware that now I build my own buggies for this terrain and one of my colleagues has built what we believe is the world's first all composite buggy. Some of the guys here ride Flexi & also Libre buggies. These all work well for us.
Last year, I clocked up 4185.9 kms (2601 miles) without a single structural problem on one of my home made buggies.

Now & again there may be small issues with our non PL buggies but we will put that down to our harsh terrain and accept that these minor issues are not related to buggy design and or production methods.

On another note, I use Flexi kites and handles. I have had some of the old handles snap. Everytime Flexi has been there & supported me with new handles. They recognised a weakness with their handles and have now fixed that problem. I had a 5m Blurr blow apart on its 13th session. Flexi just gave me a new one even though the warranty had expired. I was prepared to pay for the repair of the failed Blurr. It just shows that a responsible kiting company are concerned about their customers and can provide excellent support.

Sadly, my experience with PL is that they are at the opposite end of the spectrum from Flexifoil when it comes to customer care.

My post is not about PL bashing and yes I have complained in the past but feel fully justified with my public complaints in view of the lack of response from PL. Had PL opened a dialogue with me in the past, I would not have posted about their inadequacies on public forums.
This post is just to share with you how we have suffered with these buggies over the last 8 to 9 years.

I know BeamerBob wants this to be a dedicated PL thread exploiting the positive virtues of PL but I'm afaid I have yet to identify one.
If you are left with the feeling that my complaints are undeserving for PL then you haven't been through the PL hell, like we have.
If you are happy with your PL, then I'm happy for you because no kite-buggier wants problems with his buggy.

Ozzy - 22-4-2009 at 12:18 AM

Quote:

damn rights, so are pink buggies. trying to get Ruudje to built me Kitebuggy Mama's ApeXX in PINK.


damn,....a PINK Apexx ??,....hmm we call it a Gaypexx then ?:thumbdown: , pfeew,....

ripsessionkites - 22-4-2009 at 12:47 AM

everyone has different experiences with their PL Buggies, some good some bad.

it depends on teh terrain you're riding, how harsh you push it, etc etc.

PLs arent race / all terrain machines. they like flat surface, grass, dry lakes, soft sand (BF). Their entry level buggies for a reason.

if you're pushing the limites of extreme (speed / dune riding / jumping-freestyle) get yourself something better.

@ Ozzy ... i need a buggy again!!! going with Baby Blue. LOL. calling it the SpeedpeXX. hurry up and built it. :lol: