kimbo - 14-5-2009 at 08:25 AM
New and just need to ask about line twist. I've tried a couple ways of setting up and taking down the lines. After a huge bundle of twists and knots,
I have been taking the lines appart at the bridle and winding them.
I keep reading that this is not necessary, but each time I set them out they are twisted. The problem comes when I walk down the line with my fingers
between the lines to untwist. By the time I get half way the lines are twisting and knotting up.
If I unwind the lines attached to handles and kite, then just spin the handles to get the twists out, is this the best way!
Taking over an hour of flying time each session for line issues is for the birds.
Feelin like or dork for asking but need some ideas.
Thanks
f0rgiv3n - 14-5-2009 at 08:30 AM
Here's a trick I learned recently with that problem. i have some lines i bought that were used and they're older sot hey don't have the "waxy" feel so
they get knotted easily. What you want to do when walking out the lines is makes sure there's tension on them. It's best if you can somehow tie the
end you're walking to, to something solid and you can then just pull on it to make them straight out. Or just have someone hold the other end as you
are walking towards them.
The trick is to not let th elines get loose, that's when the knots happen when walking them out. It also has proven to undo all twists in the lines
without having to walk them out.
Try it out, see how that works for ya :roll:
acampbell - 14-5-2009 at 08:40 AM
Unless you were rolling on the ground while winding or un-winding, they are not twisted, just interlocked at various points, made more likely by the
sticky inks and sizing on new lines.
If when walking out between your lines they start to snarl, put your hand and fingers around them like you were grabbing a stick and push the snarl
away from you. Repeat as you walk. It should all fall out by the time you get to the handles. If there is a twist, it will be one or two from
moving the handles around between sessions and will be easy to sort out.
Make sure you use the same hands the same way to unwind as you did to wind. One should be a reverse video of the other. Modest tension helps too,
as stated.
I usually unwind without having to walk the lines, just pick up the handles and fly.
lad - 14-5-2009 at 08:41 AM
i went through the same, painful beginnings. :barf:
Looping and unlooping the lines around the handles seems to make twists unless I'm really careful (and not let the lines get snagged on the piggies).
Parapacking is pretty quick and painless - but I don't always have the right spare bag to do it properly.
Another, more patient way, was taught to me by an old-timer REV guy. It is to join and hold both handle ends, put tension on the lines, and turn the
handles to directly spool and unspool the lines straight onto the handles. It's sloooow but precise.
kimbo - 14-5-2009 at 08:57 AM
Thanks for letting me know it's not just me. Felt dumb as a stump.
The "sticky" feeling of the new lines may be to most problem. The lack of tension is another thing I'm doing to cause the problem.
Not giving up yet on quad lines, but I did give some thought to going back to twin lines and a bigger wing to get the pull I'm craving.
Thanks to you all for the quick response/s
acampbell - 14-5-2009 at 09:05 AM
Assuming you wrapped the lines around the handles, maybe in a figure 8, then folded the kite and rolled up the handles in it, try this...
unroll the kite and put th handles on the ground next to the trailing edge.
Leave the kite folded and toss sand or a water bottle on the trailing edge to keep it from blowing open.
Unwind lines upwind and stake the handles by the brake loops.
Back to kite, standing at the leading edge, facing the lines upwind, unfold the kite so that it inflates, walking back to stretch the bridles tight.
As the kite pops open in the wind, it should pop the lines apart. the kite is staked by the brakes so it will not go anywhere. Walk back and pick up
handles. The only thing you can do wrong here is maybe one twist or pass one handle through the other's lines, but you'll see that right away and is
easy to sort out.
Fly.
To pack, do everything in reverse, but the wind will not fold your kite for you...
Stake handles by the brakes.
walk to kite and stand between the lines in front of it at the trailing edge with wind to your back.
Pick up center of trailing edge and walk back till you are even with bridle toggles where the lines connect.
With one knee on center of kite, reach for one wing tip and fold to center, tossing all bridles inside as you go.
Learn to use the wind to help you here.
Fold again, outside to center until that half is as wide as your handles are long.
Put your knee there at the center and repeat other side.
Fold both halves together and put the sand or the water bottle across the trailing trailing edge to hold the kite.
Back at the handles, wrap the kite killers around them.
Wind lines in figure eight around the handles and kite killers.
Stop when you get to within a few inches of the bridles, then cinch the lines between the handle tops.
Lay the handles across the trailing edge and roll up.
If you do not move the handles around on the ground and always use the same hands for each action, this is foolproof.
EDIT: I added the part about winding lines ;-)
arkay - 14-5-2009 at 10:26 AM
Winding lines off the kite is only not necessary, it will likely create twists. However when I do need to wind the lines, I've found if there are a
lot of twists the best method to remove them is to:
1) stake the lines (series of twigs in the ground, stakes, or person holding the lines if you've got a buddy) in order and walk them out. use one
hand as a comb, one line in between each finger. The trick is then to you your other hand as far away as possible in the direction you're walking the
lines to stretch and tension the lines. This will allow the lines to untwist easier. If the lines bundle up you can pull them back with your leading
hand. If they're really twisted you may just need to walk to the end of the lines, pull to tighten and
start over. this can be simple (1 minute) or painful (20 minutes). I suggest avoiding this. Walking the lines out, IMHO, is really reserved for
just making sure your lines are ok and not crossed.
OR
Just walk to the end of the lines, grab them and figure out which way they're tangled. Changes are if they are just twisted in a bunch you can
untwist them from the handle end of the lines. Figure out which line is twisted on top and untwist that first until there's only one or two twists
left in that line. Then move to the next line on top. This usually takes me no more than 5 minutes.
OR!!! Avoid this all and just Parapack!
http://www.racekites.com/howto/howto_11.asp
It's extremely easy thought it seems daunting. I almost made a video on how to do it since there seemed to be so much mystery around it. When you're
done and the kite is staked. Just go fold or roll up your kite in whatever manner. (I perfer to put the bridal into the kite up to the pigtails,
fold the wings into the center, repeat twice, fold over, and roll.) Then put the kite into the bag, shoulder straps up. Make a hole in the kite or
room on the side of the kite; really doesn't matter, you just need some room for the lines. Then pick up the bag with one hand, grab at the top
between the shoulder straps. Bag facing down the lines towards the handles. Grab the lines, take a step and push the slack into the area you made
for the lines. Rinse and repeat until you get to the handles. I roll the handles around the handle rope, then just pop the handles in the side of
the bag if there's a strap or pocket or in the bag if there's room... and I put them on the opposite side of the lines!. Ok zip the bag. Really,
that's it. You're done. No magic here. Usually takes me 3-5 minutes to pack up well (getting sand out, laundry mat quality folds 
)
Ok here's the only trick. When you go to setup, exactly reverse what you did. Hold the bag with the same hand in the same orientation as when you
packed them. Pull the handles out, unroll. Put the bag on the ground with the shoulder straps face up. Walk the lines out and stake the handles.
Take you're time, no need to run down the beach. If you get something that looks like a knot or birds nest, just stop. Hold the lines in the
direction the bag (for tension) and pull the lines from the handle end. Go back to your bag, pull the kite out. Unroll, unfold. Let the wind fill
the kite. You may at most have one or two twists, just rotate the kite or go back to the handles and spin while holding the brakes.
I also remove my kite killers when packing, 1) because they're sloppy, and 2) because they're sweat bands and I don't want them funky 
The only downfall of parapacking is that if you want to take your kite out (e.g. to dry) then you need to pull the lines out first. I usually just
zigzag the lines across the garage, dry and repack.
I'd also avoid using the handles like a bar and wrapping the lines around them.. If you have nice handles I've found that it degrades the foam pretty
quickly. I have actually thought about making little plastic/velcro attachments to effectively turn the handles into a bar.
Kamikuza - 14-5-2009 at 05:14 PM
I've tried the parapacking three times ... with these results.
Packed on a windless day, flown on a windy day - perfect! Walked the lines straight out of the bag, staked, took the kite out a flew!
Packed on that windy day, flown on lower wind day - nuked 
twisted tangles lines
and the kite decided it'd bow-tie itself to add to the fun. I ended up just jamming it in the bag in frustration
Jammed into the bag, pulled out on a no-wind day to tidy it (needed a kite fix, even if it was only touching the thing :lol - a few tangles but they walked out ok. Kite actually unpacked fine :puzzled: did a
360 just cos I could then packed it away neatly ... hopefully I'll get to fly it tonight ...
I see the potential in parapacking though, just gotta get the technique down ...
Kamikuza - 15-5-2009 at 07:01 AM
Plus one perfect unpack today ... walked the line right out of the bag, stacked them then set the kite up - walked back and launched - not a single
tangle! I'm sold on parapacking! :bouncing:
kimbo - 15-5-2009 at 07:33 PM
Gonna give parapacking a shot despite the cons I have heard from other sources.
I'll let ya know how I do with it. Might be shopping for new lines, but I want to try it just the same.
Drewculous - 16-5-2009 at 09:56 AM
angus i just use the method on your site and have had zero issues since i started doing it... put the kite killers on the handles and do the figure 8