PNW Flyer - 15-5-2009 at 07:15 PM
Hi all!! Where the heck is the wind??Ahhhh.....ok, I'm done.
Ahem.....I'm considering purchasing a power kite. I'm 220lbs,43yrs old. I've been flying quad line for a bit now and get the braking aspect which I
feel I can apply to the Stylus P3 or P4. My understanding is the P3 is the only of the two that come set up from the factory with bridles to convert
to 4 line or does the P4 come the same way? As far as the Snapshot goes, what about the 2.5?
My other question is if I should go with the P3 considering my weight or P4? I like the idea of being dragged in high winds on the beach or local
park. Park has some really long wide open fields. The beach would be maybe twice a year unless I get addicted faster than I think in which case I'd be
heading to the beach as often as the wind comes Grin. Only draw back is the beach is about 2-3hr drive. Park is 20mins.
Any ideas or comments would be appreciated. Thanks. 
B-Roc - 15-5-2009 at 07:36 PM
I think you'd be better off getting something that comes with the brake bridle already set up and with suitable handles and lines. If the stylus and
P3 come with straps and you convert the kite you're going to have to upgrade your lines and handles. That will cost you $100.
I think you'd be bettter served looking at a Beamer by HQ in the 3 or 4m range.
I think of the snap shot as more-or-less a toy and the P3 / 4 in the same category. They seem to be nice recreational foils and I'm sure they pull
but they aren't focused on the traction or power kite market.
You could do better for roughly the same price as it will cost you to buy and upgrade the Prisms.
PNW Flyer - 15-5-2009 at 08:15 PM
I thought the P3 was already set up for 4 line. All I would have to do is untie no?
I see what your saying though on upgrading. I already have handles form flying my Revolution. Lines would be extra I'm sure. Other than that though
what's left?
The HQ website is very vague on what one gets for the what price.
indigo_wolf - 15-5-2009 at 08:53 PM
The P3 and P4 are initially set up for 2 lines. They come with a dual line set (power lines) and padded straps. To convert it for quadline flight,
you just have to seperate the brake and power bridles. However, at that point, you will have to provide your own set of brake lines and a set of
quad-line handles.
The entire Snapshot line (including the 2.5) are dual line one. No conversion to to quad line.
The standard quad-line handles used for flying a Rev are NOT suitable for flying a power kite.
The Stylus line is being phased out to make room for the Tensor line, but that could be months away. That information was leaked months ago, but no
official date was set, so the best guess would be RSN (Real Soon Now).... which never is.
You can't really go wrong with Brian's suggestion of the Beamer.
HQ's site for power kites is http://www.powerkites.de and they are pretty specific about what is included with the kite (you just have to look under the "Accessories (incl.)"
section for the applicable kite.
What is included with the Beamer is listed here:
http://www.powerkites.de/index.php?option=com_content&vi...
Give it a look and post back if you have any additional questions.
There is a link on that page for the Beamer Manual, which might be of interest to you.
All the best,
Sam
PNW Flyer - 15-5-2009 at 09:15 PM
Very helpful info as well as Brains info. Good to know that the Rev. handles wouldn't work. How are they different? I'm thinking they Beamer handles
are stiffer/stronger? I can see they seem to be thinner.
I found the info on HQ site(thanks).
So is there any info on the Tensor Lineup Prism is coming out with on this forum or anywhere else? Now I'm really curious!!
Getting back to the Beamer...I figure for the 235.00 or so dollars I can get the full meal deal(Beamer III 4.0) it makes sense to grab a Beamer. Heck,
it even comes with a backpack. Sheesh......nice.
indigo_wolf - 15-5-2009 at 11:09 PM
Much stronger.... try to imagine repeatedly supporting all your weight from a set of Rev handles. They are meant more for finesse.
There is no information about the Tensor line other than the name..... after that it drops off into rumours. Prism tends not to give away too many
details until very close to the release date.
Yup.... it even comes with kite killers (something else you would have to provide with the Prism). :singing:
Glad the information was useful.
ATB,
Sam
awindofchange - 16-5-2009 at 01:34 AM
The Stylus line has been discontinued and as of this date, the Snapshot line is the only power kite line being offered from Prism. The Tensor has
been shelved (as of now but could change pretty quickly if Prism decides once again to peruse it).
We have the new Beamer IV in stock and as said above, is a much more serious power kite than the Stylus or Snapshot series and comes already
configured for quad line.
The Rev handles will fold in half or the triangle clips on the top and bottom will be ripped out almost instantly from the power of the Beamer (unless
you have one of the Power Blast Rev Handles).
All Beamers come complete, ready to fly right out of the bag including Kite, Backpack, Matched Colored Quad Lineset, Colored Control Handles, Kite
Killers, Ground Stake w/sleeve, Manual and instructional CD.
We have all sizes in stock and offer free shipping to U.S. destinations.
http://www.awindofchange.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&am...
I also recommend the Beamer over the Snapshot / Stylus kites if you are serious about power kiting. For recreational flying or just playing around
they are fine.
Hope this helps.
furbowski - 16-5-2009 at 02:43 AM
yup, the snapshot is a fine little recreational kite, it got me started! But if you want to get dragged down a beach a bit by the wind, the beamer is
a solid power kite. the p3 and p4 offer opportunities for pull, but for real controllable traction in reasonable winds a proper power kite about
2-3m in size is what you want...
PNW Flyer - 16-5-2009 at 07:38 AM
Kent/Wind of change,
One thing that I really liked about the Prism site is the wind chart they offer which makes it really easy to see wind speed/pull ratio. Not that that
would be the reason to buy a Stylus. Unless I'm missing something though, I don't see that for the Beamer series which is why I'm still wondering
which size would be best for my size and weight to achieve the drag. I know from looking at the Prism chart that if I want to achieve 300lbs of pull
the winds need to be 25+miles for the now Snapshot 2.5 and was the same for the P3. How do I figure that out for the Beamer??
I'm going to buy the P3 today to kinda get the feel for this thing and for the price I can't beat it(110.00). I'll keep it at two lines and call it
good. If and when I want to step up and I have "the bug" I would like to grab a Beamer. I just need to know what size so I can get happily dragged
into oblivion:singing: :wee:
PNW Flyer - 16-5-2009 at 10:31 AM
Also....what type of line would be good? I'm thinking Spectra dual line,sleeved and pre-stretched 300#/100' due to me weighing in at 220lbs or would
200#/100' due the job if and when I get pulled?
Thanks,
Bernie
acampbell - 16-5-2009 at 11:03 AM
The right kite will come with the right line and gear. In no particular order...
Peter Lynn Hornet 3.0 m
HQ Beamer 3.0 m
Flexifoil Sting 3.3 m
ragden - 16-5-2009 at 12:37 PM
I'd personally recommend the beamer as a learning kite. However, thats been covered in this thread already. Its what I started with, worked well for
me. 
PNW Flyer - 18-5-2009 at 10:11 PM
So bought a P3 and then decided to upgrade to a P4 due to my weight. It turns out that the P3 only had 200lbs of pull@25mph and the P4 has 300lbs.
To start I feel comfortable with the P4 for now. I'm sure I'll be itching for the Beamer in the near future. I got a great price on the P4 so I
couldn't resist.
Thanks all for the feed back and help!!
Bernie
PNW Flyer - 18-5-2009 at 10:12 PM
So bought a P3 and then decided to upgrade to a P4 due to my weight. It turns out that the P3 only had 200lbs of pull@25mph and the P4 has 300lbs.
To start I feel comfortable with the P4 for now. I'm sure I'll be itching for the Beamer in the near future. I got a great price on the P4 so I
couldn't resist.
Thanks all for the feed back and help!!
Bernie
johnnylaing - 19-5-2009 at 08:32 AM
Now that you are flying, go where others fly! Hook up with others in your area and I'm sure they'll let you try some other kites...Flexifoil, Ozone,
HQ...Have fun, be safe!
PNW Flyer - 11-3-2010 at 12:17 PM
Sold the P4 and upgraded to the Beamer IV 3.0. Have yet to fly. Waiting for winds and no rain.....ya right!
Almost went out about 1am to fly but the winds were hitting 20-30 +.....again......ya right:singing:
All I need is to end up in a tree and in the middle of the night no less:wee:
indigo_wolf - 11-3-2010 at 12:22 PM
That's generally when the cop shakes his head and has to sit in the patrol car laughing uncontrollably for 5 or 10 minutes, so that he can greet the
firemen and EMTs with something resembling a professional demeanor.
Of course, they are also going to need at least 5 or 10 minutes to get rid the giggles, but then the cop gets to look like it didn't even faze him.
This is of course.... all speculation.
ATB,
Sam
PNW Flyer - 11-3-2010 at 12:25 PM
BUhahahahaaaaa........the ONLY thing keeping inside last night was visualizing THAT EXACT scenario!!!
Drewculous - 11-3-2010 at 12:25 PM
welcome back lol! 5-19-09 to 3-11-10?
the cops usually only come out when you load your kite up with glow sticks and traffic gets screwy... ufo's and all
PNW Flyer - 11-3-2010 at 12:28 PM
Been out for a bit dealing with girlfriends and now ex. Sigh.....Oh well, I still have my kites though!!!:roll:
Drewculous - 11-3-2010 at 12:30 PM
sad to hear that... women are sometimes a bit difficult... and its never fun when things go south... glad you kept the kites in the split
PNW Flyer - 11-3-2010 at 12:31 PM
I'm ok with all that. It was a year ago and after licking my wounds have now re-discovered my KITES!! Wooohooooo!!!!!:wee:
PNW Flyer - 11-3-2010 at 12:43 PM
I'm actually thinking about getting a larger kite but have boat loads of questions now.
The Beamer IV 3.0 is really nothing to sneeze at. Meaning this thing is friggin' huge compared to what I'm used to flying(2 liners and Revolutions). 3
meters=10 feet!!
I'm sure the addiction bug has hit me. I'm thinking about a 5.0 Pansh. What's the deal with the killer prices on the Pansh site?? Seeing pairs for
dirt cheap.
Drewculous - 11-3-2010 at 01:15 PM
can-o-worms there my friend!
the basic "just" of pansh kites is you get what you pay for... decent kites, but they just aren't as "finished" as mainstream kites... easier to luff,
lower quality gear... some are kite only... and you have to provide the control gear... some have bridal issues... bottom line... if you can afford a
better kite... get it... you will prolly get many more years out of a name brand, and get more enjoyment out of it...
that being said... there are tons of peeps out there that swear by 'em :dunno:
i've never flown one, but from the EXTENSIVE conversations on the subject... i'd say buy a better kite, a peter lynn, ozone, flexi, HQ... they will
prolly serve you better in the long run
PNW Flyer - 11-3-2010 at 01:28 PM
Hmmm.......I think for now I should stick with playing with my Beamer and get used to it.
Later, look into other options. I guess it couldn't hurt to buy a couple of cheapies. The pricing I'm seeing is pretty darn good which include one
line set and handles. I have read the line sets are not the greatest and some say the handles could be better. Heck for the 250.00 I'd be spending and
getting a 6.0 & 4.5m almost to hard to say no.
Like you said though.....there are quite a few that like or at least have quite a few in the quivers I see.
Easier to luff??
I'm curious as to the flying character of the P versus name brand. IE: turning,folding under and such.
Again though, I think I'm getting ahead of myself and should stick to my Beamer. At least I can play with it without it whining.:P
Maven454 - 11-3-2010 at 01:49 PM
Let me guess. You're looking at the 4.5 Legend, 6 Ace combo? Been there, did that, sold them off. Just not worth it compared to the better kites.
indigo_wolf - 11-3-2010 at 01:49 PM
Luffing is when the kite loses internal pressure (i.e. that which allows it to maintain it's form and act as a "air foil"). This can happen do to
shifting wind conditions. This can also happen due to the design of the kite
internal reinforcements being insufficient or poorly designed
number, shape, placement, sizing, reinforcements of air intakes
design of the cross-venting of the internal panels that seperate the cells of the foil
causing air pressure loss during aggressive maneuvers or at the edge of the wind window.
Sorry if this is overly geeky.
Hope that helps.
ATB,
Sam
indigo_wolf - 11-3-2010 at 01:55 PM
FWIW: You might consider getting the most out of your Beamer and keeping a sharp eye on the kites that come up for sale here. Quite a few bargains
show up in the clearnance/demo sections of the PKF retailers' websites too. Not that I watch those too closely. 
:saint:
As the warmer months come around and people start looking for new gear or as they make adjustments to their quiver (kites they currently own), you
might find your next step up from the Beamer at a bargain price and in "only driven on Sundays" condition."
It's worth a thunk. 
And yes.... sometimes the siren call of a new package in the UPS tracking system is a difficult thing to resist.
ATB,
Sam
PNW Flyer - 11-3-2010 at 02:02 PM
Maven, YES that's what I've been looking at. What's the deal with them and why do so many others have them in there quiver?
Indigo, not to much info at all!! Really helps actually. I've been reading a lot about kites flying and folding up on edges of wind windows. I wasn't
sure if the majority was quality of wind, sail or both.
AND I have been looking at the for sale section too. I can't imagine going wrong with 100.00
Maven454 - 11-3-2010 at 02:43 PM
As others have said, if you're short of cash, they're okay. But the quality is mediocre and is not consistent either. The bridles will (likely) end
up stretching, which will turn a kite that only flew acceptably to begin with fly poorly. The lines that they ship have a lot of dynamic stretch to
them, which adds to the poor responsiveness. I kite to escape frustration and thus don't want equipment that might add to it. I also have a tendency
to be very picky about my equipment. If you can't afford better, Pansh will get you into power kiting. If you can afford better, I highly recommend
it.
DAKITEZ - 11-3-2010 at 03:11 PM
just scanned through this real quick. Its good to see you back after such a long time and still into the kites. From what i saw you asked about the
prisms. Everyone told you to get a beamer, hornet, sting, etc. You bought the prism anyhow. Now you sold the prism and bought a beamer like the others
told you in the beginning. Now your asking about Pansh and people are telling you to stay away. Don't let history repeat itself is all i want to say
:saint:
I use to sell Pansh if you can believe anyone believe me. Spend the extra money and get a good sail. I could list all the reasons why, but that would
be a long list. Like Maven said you don't want to go fly and get all frustrated because your sail doesn't fly right.
PNW Flyer - 11-3-2010 at 03:11 PM
Ok. Now that all makes sense.
Thanks for the tip. I'm guessing Beamer is a good start for now then.
DAKITEZ - 11-3-2010 at 03:13 PM
Beamer is great. get the hang of it and by the time you are ready for your next kite you will most likely know exactly what you want.
PNW Flyer - 11-3-2010 at 03:16 PM
History doesn't repeat itself for me. Lesson learned.
Just like understanding the "Why" factor and it has been addressed too.
Good to be back!!
BigMikesKites - 12-3-2010 at 06:24 AM
Listen to Dakitez. and everyone else here. We will lead you down the right path...er... a pretty good path anyway.
PNW Flyer - 12-3-2010 at 06:11 PM
Chuckle.....I know. I get it! As long as the path doesn't involve trees or buildings mkay?:frog:
John Holgate - 12-3-2010 at 06:46 PM
Got a 2m and 4m Beamer myself and am very pleased with them. I'm 11 stone and in 20-25mph the little 2m beamer will pull me around all over the
place! Getting dragged around in sand is good fun. Grass can be an inconsistent surface so be a little careful of your ankles! Under the 'kite
buggying' section of the forum I've just posted a vid called 'the day after labour day' which was done mostly with the 4m beamer. Have a watch and
see if you like the idea of kite buggying!!
PNW Flyer - 12-3-2010 at 07:06 PM
Not sure what a stone equals? I always throw them at water to skip across it:bouncy:
I'm 220lbs and 6'3". I thought about buggying and all but the only thing keeping me is lack of area to ride them here. Sigh....I should move back to
Calif. at least they have nice BIG dry lake beds and deserts!!!
Nice vid and sounds!
PNW Flyer - 12-3-2010 at 07:33 PM
I just realized I should ask this too. Since I'm used to flying Revolution 4 liners and all, is it safe to assume I can control this kite in the same
fashion?? Meaning thumbs forward to brake?
If not how is this thing going to act differently? I'd imagine being a much larger kite it would be slower?
What about when turning the Beamer 3m will I have to really be concerned about it folding under itself and falling out of the sky or??
I'm getting jazzed about this because I'm taking her out for her maiden voyage tomorrow and Sunday!!!:D
John Holgate - 12-3-2010 at 11:13 PM
I haven't flown Rev's but I've seen a bit of them in action and I would say no, the Beamer will be a different beast. you'll basically control it the
same way as your stylus except you can use the brakes a little to speed up the turns and to reverse launch should you end up nose down. There's a
very good video on youtube with someone doing a demo of how effective the brakes can be but you can't fly it backwards as such like I've seen done
with Rev's. hmmm, perhaps I should say I can't fly it backwards!! maybe there are those that can! Think of the brakes like flaps on an aeroplane.
Pull them both on while you're static flying and it will stall and gracefully descend to the ground - which is exactly what you're kite killers will
do when you let go of the handles. Letting go of the handles may not come naturally but it's something you should deliberately practice so it becomes
your automatic reaction should things go a little south! Hope you have a blast.
PNW Flyer - 13-3-2010 at 01:19 AM
Well, I can already reverse launch with the Rev so I can't imagine it being to difficult to do. However,as you say it IS a whole different beast
indeed.
Something else I remember when I first began to fly the Rev. I kept nose diving it and it was all over the place until I got together with other
flyers and they pointed out a VERY important thing......longer brake lines!!!! Something I would've NEVER figured out on my own.
I wonder if there is the same learning curve for this thing??? Should I be prepared with new line for building longer brake lines?? If so, what type
of line should I use? Since the lines between this and the Rev are considerably higher in strength. Unless it doesn't matter since they are brakes
lines?? Doubtful.
Btw, in the excitement of getting prepared I realized I've forgotten my manners!!!!!
THANK YOU FOR THE HELP TO ALL THAT CHIMED IN ON THIS THREAD!!! I'll be sure and pay it forward for the next newbie I'm sure
John Holgate - 13-3-2010 at 02:51 AM
Don't worry about brake line lengths. The Beamers have four or five knots at the kite where you attach your brake lines and there's plenty of scope
for tying extra knots in the leaders on the handle end too. Try attaching your brake lines to the third knot from the end (at the kite). You'll soon
see if your brake lines are slack and it will be hard to land the kite using the brakes. It will also be hard to reverse launch if your lines are too
slack. I don't think you'll have a problem though - they're pretty good straight out of the bag.
acampbell - 13-3-2010 at 05:05 AM
...and you will find yourself moving the brake lines back up closer to the kite (tighter ) in higher winds and looser in lighter winds...
PNW Flyer - 13-3-2010 at 10:18 AM
VERY nice!! I love the fact the Beamer comes this way. The Rev was trial and error. Luckily I found flyers in the area.
Good tips!!
3hrs and counting!! Winds are looking like 10-15 so I should be good to go!
Will report back.
PNW Flyer - 13-3-2010 at 07:51 PM
Well!!!! Mission accomplished!! Got to play with my new baaaaaby today for the first time. Winds were off and on for most of the day and wasn't even
gonna fly her UNTIL, I met a fellow flyer Jeff.
Jeff, thanks for all the tips and the set up help on everything!!! If it wasn't for running into you on the way in AND on the way out I'd probably
still be askin' questions rather than flyin":embarrased:
Can't wait to do it again! Definitely a learning curve from the Rev. kites. Had no idea until today.
PNW Flyer - 13-3-2010 at 07:52 PM
Well!!!! Mission accomplished!! Got to play with my new baaaaaby today for the first time. Winds were off and on for most of the day and wasn't even
gonna fly her UNTIL, I met a fellow flyer Jeff.
Jeff, thanks for all the tips and the set up help on everything!!! If it wasn't for running into you on the way in AND on the way out I'd probably
still be askin' questions rather than flyin":embarrased:
Can't wait to do it again! Definitely a learning curve from the Rev. kites. Had no idea until today. :bouncy:
bigkid - 13-3-2010 at 08:50 PM
Meet PNW Flyer, and joeblinky at the park today, kind of a wow what are you doing here, gathering.
It is always best to DO, than read about it.
It's always fun to watch a newbie, drive the kite
Had a good time at the park.
Tomorrow looks good for the weather, anybody up for a second round?
PNW Flyer - 13-3-2010 at 08:54 PM
I kinda wanna hit Casey tomorrow. But, if know one responds in the other group by 10 tonight to go with I'd be up for round two!!