Power Kite Forum

HQ NEO - overflying

_thephantom_ - 8-6-2009 at 03:37 AM

Hi, I just got a a14 and super pleased to try it out on the weekend in 4-5kts but unfortunately the wind was lulling down to zero, so a bit flakey.

Im new to foils, so had a few problems with overflying.

I have read a few posts here and it was an issue raise a few months ago. I tried few settings, full power, total depower, but it did tend to overfly and i found myself looking up and backwards a lot.

This over flying was described by another poster on the forum. In response another poster said that there neo was very stable.

One sugestion made was to adjust the rear line leaders to shorten them 4 inches.

Did this modifiction do the trick?

It seems the right thing to do?

Apart from that I had a good feeling about this kite, it flew realy well, with good speed and turning, the power felt very smooth and controlable and im very pleased with it.

Some advice on high wind self landing, deploying the hat, flagging downwind, pinning the kite to the ground on the brake lines with my handy stake and then running like crazy to the kite to secure -
Or alternative to running, do you work your way up a brake line?,
or does it just work well being staked? and you walk up casually looking cool?, id rather ask now :). Winds forecasting 15-20 kts this week so going to find out soon enough i guess.

And that stake to pin it - I am mostly on water, do you carry the stake with you on water and whip it out on the beach. whats the crowd do?

Thanks for any information - cheers Pete

acampbell - 8-6-2009 at 05:35 AM

I have an 11m Neo and love it.

If you were flying in light winds, you might have had the center line on the closest knot at the bar, and in a gust it would overfly. I don't recall problems overflying, but probably because I have learned to slow it down or turn it away at the zenith when flying static (setting up for a session). When in motion I have no troubles.

My big trouble with the Neo, and maybe you saw my post, is landing it in big winds like close to 20. Dumping it on safety will stall the kite and put it down for sure, but it remains inflated and exposed to the wind like a billboard downwind of you. It will drag you with no way to kill it besides cutting loose all together. The time that I started in light winds that built to 18-20 I would have been in deep trouble had I not had a helper to kill the kite for me when I put it down.

The other thing is the HQ "leashless safety". I have become un-hooked with HQ bars, and being left holding the bar powered up is a real eye-opener. A leash to the landing handle gives peace of mind and helps solve the problem above.

PHREERIDER - 8-6-2009 at 05:48 AM

hi Phantom,

great kite, shorten the back lines should help. super stable kite

when thew kite is stable over head pull in slowly on the bar til the kite settles the amount you pull in is roughly what change is needed to reduce over fly. the depower effect will be reduced if do too much.

drop that stake before you or some one gets hurt. walk up the flag line secure the kite or reset for relaunch.

_thephantom_ - 9-6-2009 at 03:47 AM

Hi, thanks for the info, a couple of clarifications please

Angus mentioned in his post that

"you might have had the center line on the closest knot at the bar, and in a gust it would overfly."

Is it correct that moving the knot further away at the centre is the same as shortening the rear brake lines? The manual is not the clearest document ever written.

I am guessing the opposite is true and in strong wind it needs to be rigged on the knot closest to the bar.

I had figured that a leash was just common sense to have so attached it to the brake line and it works for me.

The "donkey dick" is just in the wrong place it seems so i removed it and use the longer and plastic coated one i have attached to my harness. This is just more secure.

Phreerider mentioned walking up the flag line to secure the kite. does this work in strong winds?

I see flysurfer foils have a 5th line that kills the kite dead by collapsing the centre, is this something that would work on a neo?

cheers and thanks for your replies
Pete

PHREERIDER - 9-6-2009 at 04:56 AM

yes,wear gloves , if you have an assistant a side window landing is the easiest .

in high winds stall landings can be done but much hader as the winds get over 20mph. the rig may not eve n stall at that point. 14m in high winds ????

always go to safety drop and walk up the line

SOLO requires you wear gloves. a flagging kite in 30mph winds is still a handfull.

this kite in 20 is gonna be handful. be careful

_thephantom_ - 9-6-2009 at 05:34 AM

Hi Phreerider, thanks for helping out.

Yes gloves will be the deal i think here. I can follow what your saying and it seems logical.
Should have said that I have brought a neo 11 as well so this is the kite to use in these conditions im sure.

im on the side of large at 100 kilos so the 14 should give me a really nice range.

I am looking at a range in the water of about 10kts to 16 for the 14 and say 15 to 25 for the 11. I dont really like to go out once it gets above this as i just find it more stress than fun.

My previous kites were a venom 19 and a 13, but they were getting on a bit so the neo appealed for there low wind power over the venoms. I am used to the venom flagging out, but over the line tangles.

cheers
Pete

acampbell - 9-6-2009 at 05:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by _thephantom_
Hi, thanks for the info, a couple of clarifications please

Angus mentioned in his post that

"you might have had the center line on the closest knot at the bar, and in a gust it would overfly."

Is it correct that moving the knot further away at the centre is the same as shortening the rear brake lines? The manual is not the clearest document ever written.

I am guessing the opposite is true and in strong wind it needs to be rigged on the knot closest to the bar.


yes adjusting one has the opposite effect on the other. I n significantly variable winds you might as well leave the front lines in the middle knot and then fly the kite- in winds you may be slowing down the kite with the brakes and in a lull you may be grabbing the center lines (watch out for the safety top-hat!) to get it to fly or reaching out to grab a brake line to get it to turn. Yeah, wear gloves.

Quote:

Phreerider mentioned walking up the flag line to secure the kite. does this work in strong winds?


I'm not sure what he means by "flag line"

Quote:

I see flysurfer foils have a 5th line that kills the kite dead by collapsing the centre, is this something that would work on a neo?

cheers and thanks for your replies
Pete


you would need a 5th line bridle.

Now that I have tried a down wind landing in high winds, I would next land to the edge and have a helper kill the kite. In my situation, had I not had a helper, my last effort would have been to grab a brake line and pull it in while dumping the bar. The Neo has a three line rig at the bar with the front line in a "Y", so there is no way to grab a front line and brake line together at the bar to flag the kite on one side. Grabbing a brake line by itself might rip something, though.

acampbell - 9-6-2009 at 07:27 AM

Something else I recommend that you do for your Neo: The cam-cleat on the center adjuster has a eye-bolt with the center power line running through it and it is held in place with a counter-sunk nut in the cam-cleat. These nuts can come loose and get lost. It has happened to a customer with two Neos where he lost both, and it has happened to mine. I recommend you take the nut off and re-assemble with red Locktite (permanent).

If you loose the nut you will have to get a 5mm nut and grind or hand-file the nut to a rough cone shape to fit into the cam-cleat's contersunk hole- a real pain.

PHREERIDER - 9-6-2009 at 07:59 AM

i remember the flag lines on the back lines? can 't remember

for some reason i remember a leashless system, angus could clarify

i do remember the top hat discharging in a grab on the front lines

BeamerBob - 9-6-2009 at 08:17 AM

If you pull the top hat safety, the front lines extend about 4-5' effectively flagging the kite on the back lines. So it would seem that after landing the kite on safety, you could keep tension on a back line while you make your way to the kite. My Montana has the same bar and safety system.

_thephantom_ - 9-6-2009 at 04:44 PM

Thanks for all your input, i will try a few things and let you know how i get on with it.

I am going to loktite the nuts tonight :), i am also going to apply some silicon sealant in some of the little black stopper balls as they dont stay seated nicely.

It seems likely that holding the brake lines and reeling them in as you walk to the kite that it would be pushed flat by the wind and thus lessen the barn door effect, but plan b is to yell at my girlfriend :)

The manual mentions anti relaunch loops - what are you supposed to do with these? Its mentioned in the diagrams, but no reference at all to them in the text as to how to use them

DAKITEZ - 9-6-2009 at 05:16 PM

I think the loops you are referring to are the loops where the lines attach to the outside leaders of the bar. You can take that loop and attach it the outsides of the bar and it will hold the brakes lines at the bar. This is used for re-connecting the bell safety in the water.

_thephantom_ - 9-6-2009 at 05:24 PM

wow that info's like gold, makes sense as i was struggling to reengage the top hat without the kite trying to self launch and that was on land so i was thinking the water version was just going to be try it and see what technique to use.

The manual really is not that good in explanation on a lot of these things

thanks for that
cheers
Pete

_thephantom_ - 14-6-2009 at 03:04 AM

ok well had a good crack at the Neo's today, wind went up to 20kts, so started at 12kts with the 14 Neo, no overflying today, so trim advice works well and had lots of fun - heaps of lift and traveling upwind was easiest of all the kites I have flown, much better than the venom 19, which is why I brought them, so im super pleased about this.

A weather front was moving in, so i pulled the pin on the Neo 14 as the wind moved up to probably 16kts.

So this is where i need some more advice, i wanted to come in and change kites, so thought here we go on the self landing. I pulled the top hat and the kite flagged out but stayed quite active in the middle of the wind window, about 10ft up, it was a real struggle to get it down and pulling rear brakes as well with a lot of strength, feet planted firmly in the shallows and leaning back hard. still not coming down, so had to yell for assistance to come running. If no assistant was available the only other thing i thought i could do was run it up the beach to hit a tree trunk [not cool]

So questions - should i have landed at the side of the wind window?, thus possibly ensuring that the kite was at least down and stayed down. [zenith down the edge and release primary safety [top hat] as the kite was at its lowest point].

I want to [or need to] self land most of the time as my partner kites as well, and we are generally not surrounded with other kiters or helpers, [i usually land then help her]

Observations about using the top hat flag out system when released from zenith - is you can forget any ideas about it being a total depower saftey system. The kite was active and powered up and a struggle to control and im a fairly strong 100 kilos.

So - is that it - bring a friend, or am i doing it wrong.

I did have a safety leash attached to the brake line, so maybe I should have ditched the bar to get it down more ?

Any advice on this self landing would be much appreciated.

The 11 Neo was really good in the building wind and flew really well for me and felt really stable and was everything i could have hoped for so im pleased with launch and flight, just the landing is a struggle.

The neo 11, came down a lot better in the wind, I allowed it to pull me to the shallows where it slowed down and behaved as i would have expected I guess. I changed my methodology in this instance and back stalled it down using the bar, then the top hat, but it still took a fair amount of grunt and determination :)
thanks again
cheers
Pete

acampbell - 14-6-2009 at 06:31 AM

Next time out with the Neo with decent / strong winds I would land it to the side with a helper. but if you have a helper anyway, try unhooking and dumping it on the brakes (on the landing handles with a leash to the harness) and see if that works for a solo method. I'd just suggest a helper for the first time in case something goes south. This is what I am going to try.

_thephantom_ - 21-6-2009 at 03:39 AM

a quick update on the Neo landing.

Have sorted out a technique that works well for me. [on the water anyway]

Landing to the edge of the wind window, low down touching the water, trip the top hat, and pull in the downwind brake line [at the same time], kite just lays flat on the water and stays there, i do move quite quickly up wind to help the flag out process, holding the brake, dump the bar and just walk up the line, secure the kite and then the bar. So im happy with that, gloves are a must.

Have been using a divers set of gloves, but the are too bulky, so next purchase is a left and right matching golf gloves in leather.

Landing to the edge of the window and low whilst moving myself up wind is the key for me.

The neo has been super easy to relaunch on the water, better than anything i have used before, wind here has been very gusty of late so been a few ups and downs, but I have never not successfully relaunched, have found that having your board on as you relaunch speeds things up and keeps the relaunch under control and up and going in nearly 1 movement.

Gusty winds mean lulls and the kite falls back, but maintains shape so can steer it back, helps to grab a rear line or a centre line, just depends on whats happening.

So very happy so far with the neos.

Cheers
Pete