Power Kite Forum - lmao... i suck at ATB-ing!

lmao... i suck at ATB-ing!

Drewculous - 8-6-2009 at 03:52 PM

I dont think ive laughed as hard as i did today in a long time... Went out to the fields to try out my new borad, and i suck!

I think its mostly just a new weird feeling, but man i cannot keep that board moving, and when i swing the kite into the wind... its jump and bail, or eat $h!t...

A buddy came out to video tape the whole ordeal... look for it on youtube im sure...

IDK, im sure ill come around, but for now im kinda bummed out... Im happy i got it, just bummed i suck at it lol
:P

PHREERIDER - 8-6-2009 at 04:53 PM

just wear the eat #@%$#! pads and keep going.

it'll be the beating you beg for . and you want know why.

i know this disease and the only cure is more

mougl - 8-6-2009 at 04:56 PM

Don't sweat it man...I have an MBS Comp 90 in route to me (Huge thanks DAKITEZ!) and a vendictive friend with a vid camera. This should prove to be hilarious considering I'm just getting the hang of flying my kite, and just barely started jumping with it and I have never even SEEN an ATB up close :P

Perhaps we can share war stories LOL

PHREERIDER - 8-6-2009 at 05:00 PM

this is gonna be good

Bladerunner - 8-6-2009 at 05:02 PM

I had no real board skills at all when I tried ATB the 1st time. I was a clown at 1st as well! The 1st 3 times at least. Then I tried a bigger board. It felt more stable + the wind was much higher? It just sort of clicked that day. Not until the NEXT day did I figure out how to go toe side and ride down wind.

I found myself saying up on your toes and down on your butt. When the kites is going up and is not powerd you can go to toes. When the kite is going down and powered lean back on your butt.

Keep at it, it will click!

USA_Eli_A - 8-6-2009 at 05:09 PM

come on over we'll get you sorted out!

Drewculous - 8-6-2009 at 05:45 PM

are there any good videos out there to show some basic instruction? my deck is used... so sadly no free dvd.... any pointers would be good too.. thanks blade!

Bladerunner - 8-6-2009 at 06:00 PM

Have you got ANY riding experience ?

The basic steps are :

Point the board down wind. The less power you have the more downwind you must point ? run the board.
Dive the kite in the direction you want to go. Again how hard you dive depends on the power available. In a big wind it won't take much.

If you have ridden before , the basics of creating poer are the same.
Keep tension on the lines by carving across / upwind. In a low wind you need to work the kite in a sine ~ wave pattern to keep tension on the lines + create power as you stroke.

Kamikuza - 8-6-2009 at 06:26 PM

See that's interesting, cos the first few times I jumped on the board with the kite I had no issues whatsoever with the board except for getting moving. On the third day of attempts, with the wind up, I was screaming up and down the beach - even riding goofy, which I simply can't do on a snowboard :puzzled:

Fast forward to today - can't ride worth a damn :lol:

something got lost in that year I didn't have the board in Japan :D now I wobble and weave like a drunk ... I blame the surface - I had zero-fear of ditching it on the soft sandy beach at New Brighton, but here on the hard-pack dirt with lots o' little stones - it's like sand paper ... trust me, I'd rather fall off on concrete :blink:

Progression Landboaridng DVD for $20 on eBay ... excellent source of info!

kitejumper - 8-6-2009 at 07:58 PM

hey noobs--im right with ya on this!!just got a landboard and ive yet to try it....maybe the three of us can get together and make a landboarding vid showing people what NOT to do!!i can jump and scud like a maniac,but never tried the board thing--should be interesting for sure......i'll keep ya updated on my progress(or lack of it,whatever the case may be).......

mougl - 8-6-2009 at 09:13 PM

Why do I have the sneaking suspicion that the pros are going to be watching this thread to monitor the 3 atb newbs simply for the comedic value? Lol!

Kamikuza - 8-6-2009 at 09:35 PM

Hey yo make that 4 ... my Scrub just arrived and I'm going to riding down some hills on it ... can't do that on the Kava :D now, where did I put my ice hockey pads ...?

ripsessionkites - 8-6-2009 at 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Drewculous
are there any good videos out there to show some basic instruction? my deck is used... so sadly no free dvd.... any pointers would be good too.. thanks blade!

the mbs dvd, is just a setup video ... how to assemble your board etc etc.

i have Progression Kite Landboarding Beginner DVD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF1OpzjdS6Y&eurl=http%3A%...

stetson05 - 8-6-2009 at 09:52 PM

how smooth is the surface you are riding on? I bet if it is smooth enough you could do it. I rented one in Seaside and it took me about 2 minutes to get rolling on the hard packed sand. Of course I don't a surface like that where I live so I went from doing good to doing nothing. I just keep going at it and bailing before I wear off my face.:online:

Kamikuza - 8-6-2009 at 09:58 PM

The beach I first started on had soft-ish sand above the waterline ... don't laugh but the first 2 days all I could do was hang on to the kite for grim death and diddle downwind like a turtle for about 2m then stop ...
The third day, while I was power diving the kite, I thought to 'lift' my legs like you would to get started kitesurfing, sort of unweighting my feet & pushing them forward and taking all the power of the kite in my upper body ... sure enough, I was off and away!

... I had no lessons for this either, it was totally DIY - maybe that's why it took 3 days :lol:

Skint - 9-6-2009 at 04:37 AM

Make that 5.......... ive perfected the art of being blown straight out the front onto my face.
i should really get to a beach as i get brutalised by the grit on the field. not sure how much skin my legs can lose before it becomes an issue :lol:

Drewculous - 9-6-2009 at 06:51 AM

As far as experience: I can control the kite really well, since ive got this kite a few months back, ive been out nearly every day with it...been in about all the different kinds of wind around here, and im basically really comfortable with the kite...
the board is a different story... virtually no experience. When i got the board i spent prolly a total of 2 hours (over the course of the day before i could go out) on the board getting a feel for it, hopping, turning, riding it down the loading docks at work... so i feel pretty comfortable on it, but as far as past experience, none.
The only good spot where im at is a big soccer complex with like 6 fields next to eachother... so the grass is a little rough, not the easiest to get moving on, but its doable (seen plenty of boarders on grass)
i think its just a new prospect to me and i just dont have the confidence, nor the "feel" built up yet... It'll come in time, today we are supposed to have some good winds, so i'll let you know how today goes!

Thanks for the input, and i may have to pick up that dvd rip...

carltb - 9-6-2009 at 09:31 AM

ill check back to this thread when the vids start to show up.!!!!!!

Drewculous - 9-6-2009 at 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by carltb
ill check back to this thread when the vids start to show up.!!!!!!

ya thanks...:moon:

ripsessionkites - 9-6-2009 at 12:41 PM

crash & burn ... only makes you better, and not to do certain things again. live and learn

i've had my fair-share of crashes and the peanut gallery is on the side lines laughing. its all part of the fun. :lol:

take off your skirt and get out there and practice. :thumbup:

routting for ya.

shehatesmyhobbies - 9-6-2009 at 02:38 PM

Good luck to you all! I am working on getting the right stones between my legs my self to step into one of these atb's. I will put my experience in this thread asap, One of the funniest threads on here! :yes:

lad - 9-6-2009 at 02:45 PM

Just started trying to landboard with my Access depower - didn't go so well since I'm used to being pulled by the hands - not the waist or seat! CG adjustment strategy is underway!

Kamikuza - 9-6-2009 at 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skint
Make that 5.......... ive perfected the art of being blown straight out the front onto my face.
i should really get to a beach as i get brutalised by the grit on the field. not sure how much skin my legs can lose before it becomes an issue :lol:

You're not a real kite pro until you leave blood on your kites :lol:

kitejumper - 9-6-2009 at 06:34 PM

lol

lad - 9-6-2009 at 06:50 PM

"When the kites is going up and is not powerd you can go to toes. When the kite is going down and powered lean back on your butt. "

I applied this at my first, decent prolonged board session on a hard-packed beach.
BUT, being on the safe, underpowered side, I would move sometimes faster than the kite. It would luff during off-powerzone upstroke after I just accelerated during the in-powerzone downstroke.

So, I tried the opposite!
Heel back during the weaker upstroke so I could keep tension on the lines/kite.
Toes forward to work up speed during the downstroke.

The wind was off-shore, angled towards the direction I was traveling (upwind was not doable - then again it could be the slower trainer kite I choose!)

Kamikuza - 9-6-2009 at 08:45 PM

Do whatever it takes to keep tension on the lines ... remember my reverse infinity slingshot method? :lol:

or was that another forum ...?
No line tension, no pull, kite him fall outa sky.

carltb - 10-6-2009 at 05:44 AM

i think ill start with the vids then...............

this is one of my first vids........... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRUJ5rA6gqs&feature=chann...

and 2 weeks ago........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJgqnvaAOjs&feature=chann...

Kamikuza - 10-6-2009 at 06:59 AM

Show off :lol:

I think we're talking about getting moving at all - not trying to do tricks :shocked2: or at least, I am :lol:

:embarrased:

carltb - 10-6-2009 at 07:37 AM

i never had a problem with just getting moving. i used to buggy before i boarded so already had kite control.
its all about having enough power, either from kite choice or from kite position. the standing on the board is the easy bit.
anyway kevin, when you get that phantom you'll progress really fast as you wont have to worry about flying the kite.

BeamerBob - 10-6-2009 at 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kamikuza

Quote:

You're not a real kite pro until you leave blood on your kites :lol:

I must say that you can definitely get blood on your kite without being a pro. :o

Drewculous - 10-6-2009 at 08:16 AM

weather here sucks... no wind or too much...err

so i went boarding down some hills in a local park.. only ate it twice haha... but much better feel for the board at speed... hopefully the rain will stop and i can get some wind to go get back on this thing!!

USA_Eli_A - 10-6-2009 at 08:36 AM

see if someone has drill 1 you can borrow

macboy - 10-6-2009 at 09:04 AM

I've got a few vids out there floating around. I'll see if I can't get my hands on them. (I can't remember if Drill 1 was one of them....I think it was).

Skint - 11-6-2009 at 02:58 AM

Nice vids Carl! im off for a little sesh over the weekend i think and my mate will no doubt have the camera out. Im sure he only turns up to watch me stack it lol.

I tried boarding down hill when i couldnt get the kite out. it ended in a lot of ankle pain but im getting there.

WadoGal - 11-6-2009 at 07:39 AM

I love taking the board downhill on low wind days! Its certainly good for developing balance, getting used to speed and carving. I ate it good a few times last week trying to do 180s at the bottom of the hill. Totally different beast though with no power to lean back against and no lift to hold you up!

My first few times out with the kite, I spent most of my time trying to get on the board, then getting pulled off over the front - made me invest in in knee pads :lol:

kiteNH - 11-6-2009 at 07:48 AM

I thought that the Progression landboarding DVD was well worth the $30 I spent on it. And the less you know the more value it will have for you.

mougl - 11-6-2009 at 08:20 AM

The comp 90 should be here any day and I just found 2 new soccer complexes in my town...this should be interesting

kitejumper - 11-6-2009 at 10:42 AM

kitejumper - 11-6-2009 at 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mougl
The comp 90 should be here any day and I just found 2 new soccer complexes in my town...this should be interesting

ahhh yes......more places to fall down :smilegrin:

Drewculous - 12-6-2009 at 06:53 AM

So i still suck, lol... weather has been real nasty here, tordanos and flooding... but went out one day to find my soccer field flooded, well im not afraid of water, so i said what the hell! (flooded=maybe 1" of standing in the low spots, spongy on the rest)

got out did some great jumps, great scuds, and figured the wind was movin pretty good, lets try the board... This overly wet condition magnified my problem, I cant get going, the moist grass seems to be killing me... I tried starting the board 45 off downwind, nothing... 30 same... straight downwind... dove the kite straight into a nasty gusty, and i was off! Water was spinning off of the wheels 10' into the air! It was great! Leaned back, started to turn the correct direction, and stopped... wet grass is causing my headachs... I can handle the board, the kite, and i can put it together, this weather just sux :mad:

so i may be outta luck on the board till this weather goes around us, but that little 50' run was pretty damn fun!

lad - 12-6-2009 at 06:56 AM

Drew,

You...must...get...to...the...beach........low tide...hard packed...steady wind...

....it will all come to you in a flash of revelation!:bouncing:

Drewculous - 12-6-2009 at 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lad
Drew,

You...must...get...to...the...beach........low tide...hard packed...steady wind...

....it will all come to you in a flash of revelation!:bouncing:

I know... Nebraska has no tide... i think the beaches around here would be worse.. dry sand you can barely walk in.... plus there are trees like 10 ft off the water in most places

Would bigger wheels help... maybe a muntant ATB board would do better lol

-side note, my woman has family in Jacksonville, FL.... Im gonna make her so mad when we go... ill be on the beach all day, and ill hafta take a road trip to see Angus in Brunswick lol

carltb - 12-6-2009 at 10:35 AM

how about a set of these.................... http://www.excite-webtl.jp/world/english/web/?wb_url=http%3A...

Drewculous - 12-6-2009 at 10:52 AM

lol!

OMFG ITS 99,000!! 103,950 with tax haha

ROFL! is it in yen? How did you come across that, those are sweet

i think im just gonna find some dirt road out in the middle of nowhere and go down that lol

indigo_wolf - 12-6-2009 at 11:49 AM

Interesting that they refer back to
http://www.wheeleez.com/ :wow:

ATB,
Sam

kiteNH - 12-6-2009 at 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lad
Drew,

You...must...get...to...the...beach........low tide...hard packed...steady wind...

....it will all come to you in a flash of revelation!:bouncing:

This is the truth right here. And I found that after I got out on the beach and "got it" that when I went back to try flying on those fields that were giving me trouble that it was so much easier to get going because I had a feel for it.

It's really hard to put it all together when you have gusty winds and surface with lots of rolling resistance.

mougl - 12-6-2009 at 12:10 PM

The more I read on this thread, the more I love where I live

Skint - 14-6-2009 at 05:06 AM

VID!!!! and i suck slightly less now!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/39401265@N04/3621815449/in/phot...

Basically just steaming straight down wind. Stacked it at the end due to hitting a gint grass clump :embarrased: finally had some clean wind though.

By the end of the sesh i was beginning to carve upwind a bit :smilegrin:

carltb - 14-6-2009 at 02:31 PM

nice 1. looks like a nice spot that. not a tree in sight.

Skint - 14-6-2009 at 03:48 PM

Yeah it is but the grass gets really long and the field is littered with massive flints and thistles. bit of challenge to dodge the clumps of grass and divets but its all part of the fun.

had a frustrating sesh today due to gusts and members of the public/ramblers/horse riders/mountain bikers/dogs

Kamikuza - 14-6-2009 at 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Drewculous
lol!

OMFG ITS 99,000!! 103,950 with tax haha

ROFL! is it in yen? How did you come across that, those are sweet

i think im just gonna find some dirt road out in the middle of nowhere and go down that lol

Yeah Japanese yen so 100,000 now is about US$1,000 ...!!!

My kite guy in Shizuoka has one of those boards and apparently, there's only one manufacturer in the world :rolleyes:

I have zero intention of buying one so I've never tried it.
The RollEz wheels though cost like $200 for a set - surely someone could weld, mill or machine up an axle set to take them for less than $1,000 ?!? Or even an axle extension for a regular axle?

Drewculous - 18-6-2009 at 11:46 AM

so.... ordered the progression dvd.... got lost in the mail :mad:

well, time for that later i guess. A storm just blew through town and the wind are up, skys are blue, im smiling :yes:

! Green light for some lunch time boarding.. i'll let you know the level of suck/success attained

-mj- - 18-6-2009 at 12:12 PM

HQ has an instuction Dvd that teaches the basics, its pretty helpfull for those first steps.

-mj- - 18-6-2009 at 12:19 PM

Thought of another thing, I dont know what you ride but LibrePowersails has 23cm wheels in their assortment, these are a bit bigger and wider then the usual size you find on mtb´s but will help coping with that terrain a bit better.

(I´m promoting the wrong brands here, how did this happen :spin:

)

Drewculous - 18-6-2009 at 04:56 PM

thanks for the info mj!
Im hoping this dvd will get me rolling...har har... if it ever gets here.

But anyway, good call on those wheels, ill keep those in mind when my current ones go south

-side note- field was a little too wet again, so not a whole lot of progress made today, but i feel like the motions are there, and what im doing feels right... just need the right mix of good winds, and dry, short fields to get going properly.... or a beach lol

lynx69 - 21-6-2009 at 07:19 PM

Drew,

I know what you are going through with lumpy wind and a place to ride living in the midwest US. I found a 115 acre city park with few trees and mowed grass. I have to keep an eye open for joggers but on the bright side most people have never seen kite landboarding here in Missouri and stop and ask questions. Just got back from St Augustine Beach Florida which is about 30 miles south of Jacksonville Florida. If you wait for low tide you can ride for 8 miles on the beach. You can drive your car right onto the beach for $7.00 a day. The sea breeze is a totally different experience from the gusty unpredictable stuff we get. You park your kite in a sweet spot and it's cruizin time. As the others have said keep at it and it will come together. Time on board will bring results. Good luck!

Kamikuza - 21-6-2009 at 11:22 PM

One thing I'm finding Drew ... being under-powered and working the kite way more aggressively is easier to get moving and stay moving, than being over-powered and fighting balance and power problems ...

Also, I'm having more success riding ON the board, standing on top of it more upright than leaning on the heel edge trying to carve like I do on snowboards ... I'm riding mostly on hardpack sand with a loose (groomed, by god!) top layer that will slide like ice if you edge up too hard on it. Stand on the board and ride it like a skateboard, imagining the kite to be a virtual down hill :laugh: well I know what I mean

Once I get moving, I like to slalom along ... just cos it feels good :D

Drewculous - 22-6-2009 at 06:41 AM

i think i may need to adjust the trucks on my board... it has a mean tendancy to edge towards my heels, and virtually noting on my toes... the slightest shift back, and im going striaght up wind in about 10 ft... whereas i stand on my toes, and the board barely turns... so im perpetually going too far upwind before i can really get rolling... it may be lack of experence on the board, but whatever it is it kinda sux, lol.

But this weekend was good, went back and forth accross the soccer complex a dozen or so times before i lost the wind to the heat of the day on Sunday... Tried to go out saturday, but the wind was screaming, so i didnt think i could swing the board... got some mean jumps tho... :smilegrin:

lynx69 - 22-6-2009 at 05:21 PM

Drew,
What kind of tire pressure are U using? Wind was light here in Misery and will get lighter with warm weather setting in. Took out my pig boat 7m TSR Beamer. It has a lot of pull but is slower than hell. Had a good sesh until the wind died altogether. I am looking to buy a 5m kite to pull my 190lb ass around and don't have a clue which way to go with so many choices. Glad to hear that U r hanging in there.

Kamikuza - 22-6-2009 at 06:32 PM

You might be standing with your heel too far over the edge of the board ... how tight are your straps?

mougl - 22-6-2009 at 06:49 PM

Drew...

I've been having a lot of the same probs lately, mostly due to wind so looks like ur coming along much quicker than I am :P My Viper 2.6 got here today so I'll have that as my ace in the hole for the high wind days (forcast says high winds for the next 4 days) I'll keep u posted :D

Drewculous - 23-6-2009 at 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kamikuza
You might be standing with your heel too far over the edge of the board ... how tight are your straps?

Straps are secure... not to tight nor loose... i even tried hanging my toes over the edge a little, and that didnt really help... I was thinking about this last night (when there was absolutely no wind) and i realized... im looking at my kite the whole time. I really think my main issue is im 'thinking' where im going, and not looking... its a way open field so im not gonna hit anything, but i think i need to set up a cone at one end, and try to get to it, look at it virtually the whole time, and just try to look at it and go to it...
:ninja:

i need to be one with the kite :ninja:

edk442 - 27-6-2009 at 03:50 PM

tried my hand at boarding for the first time today! totally bailed off my board and went back to static jumping lol. i'm gonna have to take the board to a hill and build up the confidence of just being on the thing before i can think about being pulled on it. totally different beast from my snowboard

Drewculous - 28-6-2009 at 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by edk442
tried my hand at boarding for the first time today! totally bailed off my board and went back to static jumping lol. i'm gonna have to take the board to a hill and build up the confidence of just being on the thing before i can think about being pulled on it. totally different beast from my snowboard

I had some of the same issues, and i took my board to a local hilly park and just rode one afternoon, i prolly rode 3 hours, just learning how to cut across a hill, how to stand and balance, not squat, just how to control it.

I also started a thread in the buggy camp about running the sine wave to keep going, but that'll come...

basically you point the board like 45 degrees off of down wind, dive the kite, get rolling, edge back on your heels, and get the sine wave going... ive been told that same thing dozens of times, and i didnt get it till i could actually do it.

Go pick up a dvd... i got the progression landboarding, beginner dvd and it helped a lot (hq also makes one that i hear is good). but the dvd will put some visuals to it and make it easier... and just watch it till it sticks... then get out there and practice till you do it, then do it like 5 more times till it sticks... then go home and nurse your wounds lol

keep us posted on how it goes :thumbup:

Drewculous - 1-7-2009 at 10:26 AM

proud to say the board and i are at peace finally... if i get close to ok winds its up and down the fields for me! Can actually ride upwind pretty good, and unless the wind dies on me i can make it back to where i started every time :smilegrin:

Now i just gotta get my bucket in and ill try out the ol' twister jumping machine Thanks again for the help!

:bows to the masters @ the PKF:

sp4cem0nkey - 19-8-2009 at 01:54 PM

Good for you, Drew!
I'm just getting started at land kiteboarding too.
Was using a 3m Beamer 3, but found out it had problems, so I'm learning to fly my new PL Synergy 8m.
I hope to get the knack of that soon so I can try it with my Comp90!
I'm going to have to make a trip to the beach too, cuz there are no great fields to fly in in the Austin TX area.
Good luck to all my fellow newbies on PKF!

Drewculous - 24-8-2009 at 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sp4cem0nkey
PL Synergy 8m.

Comp90!

aw damn, nice setup! Im always broke lol... i'd love to rock a syn on a comp 90 (especially new, if thats the case) Good vibes too ya! Get a helmet if you havent already... save your melon! And if ya can, try starting on hard packed sand or gravel... you get the feel for the board early on... grass is a PITA if you ask me... especially when you are starting... yay Nebraska! *sarcasm lol*

sp4cem0nkey - 24-8-2009 at 03:10 PM

Yo Drew!

Thanks for the good vibes! Being that we are both from NE (I grew up in Omaha), I hope they will be extra good!
I do always wear a helmet and at least knee pads. I'm a little scared to ride on gravel, but I will give it a try if I can find a nice open area.

I really like the Synergy so far, although I have not yet tried it together with my board.
If you are ever in the Austin area, drop me a line and you can try out my gear

Peace.

This one's for you, Drew.

indigo_wolf - 24-8-2009 at 03:28 PM

Sand board modified to accept buggy wheels. More info here:
http://www.surf-wax.co.uk/sports/buggy_ATB/index.htm

ATB,
Sam

Drewculous - 25-8-2009 at 11:04 AM

no doubt on the invite!! If im in texas i'll give you a call first!! As for the gravel or sand, start in light winds first, but dude, the slides and edging are a ton of fun once you get going! I much prefer the sand over the grass, much easier to get going, granted the falls hurt more in gravel, but with adequate pads and clothing, it can be minimalized... sand really doesnt hurt that much more.. lol

indigo: that thing is awesome lol... long ways to fall tho haha

indigo_wolf - 25-8-2009 at 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Drewculous
indigo: that thing is awesome lol... long ways to fall tho haha

Could always invert the mount a la Quadrolution :shocked2: to reduce freefall distance. ;-)

ATB,
Sam

sp4cem0nkey - 25-8-2009 at 01:19 PM

Looks like that might bottom out in a bumpy field

Drewculous - 25-8-2009 at 02:33 PM

:o
wow... i'd feel too goofy riding that lol

Some people have a lot of time on their hands... reminds me of college, getting drunk with the engineers... the stuff that was designed on napkins, back when, this is that kind of stuff lol!

indigo_wolf - 25-8-2009 at 03:01 PM

The Quadrolution is a production board in the UK.

Very interesting article on it here:
http://windwarriorkitesports.com/Documents/Quadrolution%20re...

It's pretty much targets for speed and stability.

ATB,
Sam