Power Kite Forum - Donkey D***s or carabiners?

Donkey D***s or carabiners?

lad - 17-6-2009 at 06:10 AM

What is the functional advantage of DDs?

-Proven quicker manual hook-up or emergency release?
-Somehow more fitting to watersports?

***Or just some artifact of product evolution?***

I get a little frustrated fiddling with one sometimes.

I was thinking a small carabiner hanging from the little top crosspiece of the spreader hook is easier to hook up and will more aptly keep the loop from slipping out.

The dinky carabiner, of course, would NOT a heavy-duty load-holder - just a slip-proof retainer like the DD - but simpler and more reliable.

If I ever had to quick release a CL, it seems to me it would slide out thru a smooth, aluminum carabiner edge better than across a twisty, roughened DD.

Bladerunner - 17-6-2009 at 05:58 PM

My DD holds my chicken loop in place ?

edk442 - 17-6-2009 at 06:11 PM

for me the DD works to guide the spreader bar back onto the chicken loop should it slip forward. the way i'm picturing a carabiner it would allow the spreader bar to slip off completely and would turn the carabiner into a load bearing device.

i've never had to quick release nor have i tested it (bad i know) but if your in a situation that you have to quick release i'm thinking there will be wenough force to make that CL slide whether it be against a used DD or a metal carabiner

edk442 - 17-6-2009 at 06:13 PM

i should say that the DD doiesn't allow the spreader bar to come forward and UP whereas a carabiner would swivel and let the bar come off the CL

lad - 17-6-2009 at 07:14 PM

I'm thinking a smaller carabiner, hanging from the little, cross top bridge of my Dakine hook, would not actually let the loop fall below the hooS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s lower lip. It would swing from the top, between the two steel ribs that form the hook below. It would never actually hold a load if it simply kept the loop above the lower lip hook edge.

This is all still theory, without field testing. :rolleyes:

I've just noticed that after some tug launches or upswung lifts that the loop would still mysteriously come off the hook once in a great while - even with the different DD arrangements I've tried.

WIllardTheGrey - 18-6-2009 at 01:31 AM

The thing about a carabiner is, unless you have a climbing carabiner that locks closed the kite line can slip inside of the carabiner and become tangled then your in for a broken line at best, or a nightmare of a ride with a quickrelease that won't work at worst.

Quote:

I'm thinking a smaller carabiner

Climbing, larger than what your describing, built to withstand a rock climbing fall safely

Key chain, not very useful except as an undependable key chain that drops keys if you have more than a couple of sets attached
[img]http://#@%$#!jbabehas.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/pr-key-accessories-key-clips-carabiner-clip-a61-1.jpg[/img]

Taper123 - 18-6-2009 at 04:12 AM

I'm sticking with the donkey dork myself.

The key chain caribiners make great devices for attaching line art for you single line kites though.

PHREERIDER - 18-6-2009 at 06:05 AM

when you're riding and go for and unhooked tricks or just ride unhooked for the freedom and whip swing on the bar. the stick is quick and manageble with one hand to go back and forth. this is for the water or land ATB/skates/buggy too( that would be impressive). whipping out the stick becomes one of those blind ninja tricks you gain with time. locking carbiner i think would be a buggy thing if it had a place for either.

PHREERIDER - 18-6-2009 at 06:10 AM

"I get a little frustrated fiddling with one sometimes"

well put ! close your eyes and just let it happen.

it all comes very naturally...... the more you play with it the better it gets

i just can't stop

lad - 18-6-2009 at 08:46 AM

hee-hee...I tried rewording that bit several times..but nothing is bullet proof!;-)

I was looking into small, locking carabiners.

I think I have a little way to go before I tackle unhooked tricks and Ninja DD reshelving!

-mj- - 18-6-2009 at 01:48 PM

A donkey d#@k (or loop lock) allows for quick unhooking, whereas a carabiner would be hard to undo in the heat of battle (I think, never tried).
if a carabiner would be the solution, why would they have invented the donkey dong?

rudeboysaude - 18-6-2009 at 02:04 PM

I myself am not a fan of metal-on-metal action. If you put enough time flying on something like that you're bound to get some sort of wear on the metal. Most likely on the aluminum carabiner versus the steel spreader bar. With the twisting that can be involved in harness attachment points to, I'm not sure that a carabiner is rated for some of those types of twisting forces as well.

lad - 18-6-2009 at 03:12 PM

I guess I'd have to make a picture of what I'm proposing - using a wretched keychain example for now:

- a passive, non-load clip hanging from the middle Dakine cross-piece over the hook. (It would have to be just the right length and shape, and must lock, of course).

The loop would go thru it, where the carabiner would just act as a swinging restraint. Any forward strain or load would just be normally on the hook, as the leading edge of the carabiner would just swing up thru the space between two steel "rails" that run down to form the hook on the bottom. No metal-on-metal involved.

The only way I could see the carabiner taking the load would be if you somehow totally reversed the loop's direction - like sliding on your back, feet-forward! (No worry there, as you probably wouldn't be feeling anything at that point!) :sniff:

Oh Well...This is just speculation - I really wasn't thinking of any ninja-style hook n' unhook maneuvers that would make DD more practical.

<shooting the horse once and for all - hey, I thought I just saw his ear twitch!>:yawn:

Bladerunner - 18-6-2009 at 04:13 PM

I see what you are getting at now!
I find my Ddick pokes me in the belly sometimes when my spreader rides up. This idea would prevent that problem. I don't ride depower unhooked often so I'm interested in how it works out.

lad - 18-6-2009 at 04:31 PM

"I find my Ddick pokes me in the belly sometimes when my spreader rides up"

Same here, which was my initial inspiration for the clip.
(but I'm glad you said it first! :tumble: )

krumly - 22-6-2009 at 06:55 PM

Maybe if the geometry were set up right, that clip idea would work, but looking at lad's photo I'd think that would be pretty fiddly getting the chicken loop out. It looks like you'd have to raise the biner up before the gate could flip forward to clear the chicken loop.

I've never tried it, but several folks have used a super heavy zip tie cinched around the spreader bar that flips forward and down into the spreader bar loop to act as a reverse donkey dick (there, I said it). Usually used when the original dd was non existant or the polyurethane has dried and cracked.

I'm also with Aaron in not liking aluminum on steel. I think polished ss on ss with my Wichard on heavy duty Loos thimbles is fine, since the loading is so light and intermittent.

krumly

PHREERIDER - 22-6-2009 at 07:26 PM

yeah yeah

the BIG ZIP ties ...like 1/2"-1" thick

great backup i always ride with one

i have dropped two dixs this in the past six months ,,,usaully the stitching cuts the plastic with lots of flexing

WIllardTheGrey - 25-7-2009 at 01:49 PM

An old topic I know, but I just found this while browsing Coastal Wind Sports

Quote:

This is the chicken look lock or "donkey dong" that comes with the Flexifoil Extreme Control Bars. It differs from others that stay on the chicken loop because it attaches to the spreader bar with a Velcro loop closure and sticks forward through the chicken loop and spreader bar hook.

Sounds like what you are looking for and for 11 bucks you can't go wrong.