Power Kite Forum

HQ NEO users

cstephane - 24-6-2009 at 08:16 AM

I'm interested in these kites, the only turnoff seems to be the safety system.
As anyone tried extending the secondary system and using a leash on it. Not a big fan of the leashless. How stable are they self landing in overpowered situations???

Thank,
Steph.

DAKITEZ - 24-6-2009 at 08:41 AM

just curious why you do not like the leashless system.

I think it works very well. Plus you have the option to run the leash as a back up. I'm not sure the best way to hook up the leash to the landing strap. If you put it in the center I wouldn't count on it coming down straight and smoothly. My guess is it would twirl and spin a bit. If you hooked the leash to one side I'm afraid it might do a loop on the way down and hit hard :puzzled:

cstephane - 24-6-2009 at 08:58 AM

The reason that I'm not a big fan would be due to reflex...
I've primarily flown Arcs for the last 5 years and my hand instinctively knows where the safety on the CL is, I cant imagine reaching above the bar to deploy it!
I never launch hooked in and I've had depower lines wear and snap. Do you leash suicide when unhooking?
Keep in mind I've never used this type of bar, it just doesn't seem natural, therefore wanting to see if there was any other options out there.
I'm sure some people must share my opinion.

Steph.

csa_deadon - 25-6-2009 at 01:44 AM

Have flown my 11m neo a few times now in varying winds, and have deployed the safety every session just to get use to it. I don't use a leash, however I don't ride water either.

I always launch hooked in, and off wind (30degrees-45 degrees).

Kite flags great in those situations.

Love this kite.

mgatc - 25-6-2009 at 07:15 AM

The kites do have a tendency not to want to stay down in strong winds even after deployng the safety . The kites exert a fair amount of pull and bounce around a lot. Because of this, the kite stake is of little benefit unless it is bombproof.
There was another post on the forum about a month ago on this very subject. A lot of good ideas were presented. I'll backtrack and see if I can find it for you.

_thephantom_ - 25-6-2009 at 01:33 PM

Hi i covered the topic here in the post on overflying Neo.

I had just got one and having been a peter lynn user, i was used to self landing with flagging the kite out.

The Neo was different and I did not have the technique sorted, so the forum posted some advice. The problem comes with trying to deploy the primary safety in upper range winds when the kite is in the zenith or close to and up fairly high. It will drop down but not stay down, bouncing and exerting a fair pull. [top of wind range for kite size]. In this situation you need assistance or run it up against a solid object.

I have played around with it and the trick in this situation is immediately after deploying primary safety and as the kite is falling down with no power, start hauling on 1 of the brake lines and it will flag out as it hits the ground tip to wind [just like a Lynn with no power, just a few twists if you are unlucky]. Easy. However the best advice I picked up on here was to used good gloves, which makes grabbing the line so much easier and safer. The trick here with the brake line is to do it as its going down. If you miss it at this stage, what happens is the kite falls to the ground bounces then immediately regains some shape and is launching again, this time fully in the power window, low down and in strong winds. Now you are just hanging on.

I posted this [below] after a fairly powered up session on a 14 metre in which the method worked damn awesome for me and it has sorted every concern out. Like anything its just technique and reasoning, common sense and learning by degrees.

I have a safety leash attached to the secondary brake line which gives me piece of mind.

I had not used this type of safety device before so i had to get my head around it. Now that I have its sorted for me. Please note that this type of problem with landing is only when the kite reaches its upper wind range as well, so we are talking fully powered up. In all other situations its not such a drama as it seems to be when you start writing about it :)

The neos [I have 2 a 11 and a 14] have been great kites and I could not be happier with them. They have great stability - almost as good as Peter Lynns, they work well in low winds and have good turn speed and lift. They are excellent on water and land and I cant wait to try them out on snow. They are not a beginners kite, because you need technique and confidence to use them [landing as above] but once you have the correct mindset and understanding I have not found or used anything better for the price range, features and quality.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"a quick update on the Neo landing.

Have sorted out a technique that works well for me. [on the water anyway]

Landing to the edge of the wind window, low down touching the water, trip the top hat, and pull in the downwind brake line [at the same time], kite just lays flat on the water and stays there, i do move quite quickly up wind to help the flag out process, holding the brake, dump the bar and just walk up the line, secure the kite and then the bar. So im happy with that, gloves are a must.

Have been using a divers set of gloves, but the are too bulky, so next purchase is a left and right matching golf gloves in leather.

Landing to the edge of the window and low whilst moving myself up wind is the key for me.

The neo has been super easy to relaunch on the water, better than anything i have used before, wind here has been very gusty of late so been a few ups and downs, but I have never not successfully relaunched, have found that having your board on as you relaunch speeds things up and keeps the relaunch under control and up and going in nearly 1 movement.

Gusty winds mean lulls and the kite falls back, but maintains shape so can steer it back, helps to grab a rear line or a centre line, just depends on whats happening."

acampbell - 25-6-2009 at 01:58 PM

Great post. thanks Phantom. I love the Neo too. Lots of low wind fingertip park-and-rides in the bug. I have-not had a high-winds session with it since my last post, so this is encouraging.

unpacking without a groundstake

yugga - 25-6-2009 at 02:25 PM

Right,

about 16-20 knots today. Unpacked the neo. weighted down with kiteboard. sorted out the lines.

the sand on the beach was fine and dry so couldnt peg down with groundstake. did up zip and tried to get my dad to stand behind it but it kept wrapping around him and trying to twist around. hes not very kite literate so i gave up.

whats best way to secure the kite and get in a suitable position for launch without a ground stake in relatively high winds. Also not much room on this particular beach so cant manoeuvre much.

Cheers

_thephantom_ - 25-6-2009 at 02:48 PM

link to video which shows you better than you can write, its for FS pulse, but its the same just different.

Follow this and it shows several methods.




http://www.kiteforum.tv/video/FS_Pulse2_set_up_guide.html

acampbell - 25-6-2009 at 03:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by yugga
Right,

about 16-20 knots today. Unpacked the neo. weighted down with kiteboard. sorted out the lines.

the sand on the beach was fine and dry so couldnt peg down with groundstake. did up zip and tried to get my dad to stand behind it but it kept wrapping around him and trying to twist around. hes not very kite literate so i gave up.

whats best way to secure the kite and get in a suitable position for launch without a ground stake in relatively high winds. Also not much room on this particular beach so cant manoeuvre much.

Cheers


I use my heel to dig a crescent shaped trench a couple of inches deep in the sand to match the approx shape of the trailing edge. Lay the kite down on its back and lay the trailing edge in the trench, covering with sand. It's less about the amount and weight of the sand and more about making sure the trailing edge is covered so wind cannot get under it, so it does not take much. Works great in fine white sand.

DAKITEZ - 25-6-2009 at 10:26 PM

I leave the kite wrapped up with the packing strap while i unroll the bar and lines. Then I undue the packing strap and put sand on the trailing edge as I open the kite up. With the kite secure I wrap the packing strap around my harness and clip it so i don't loose it. Zip up the zipper. Check lines. Harness in. pull on the center lines a bit to get it to stand up and get some air in the kite. Then if it less than 50% inflated i wil just give a tug on the main lines and hot launch it. It will flap around a bit but fill quickly. If the kite is more than 50% inflated I will launch it off to the side of the window, by just simply walking around to the side and I will launch using mostly the brake strap. I will hold each side of the brake strap and slowly release the down wind line faster then the upwind and the kite will start to rise facing up wind and your off.

yugga - 25-6-2009 at 11:55 PM

thanks guys. one day i will discover that this is a great kite for the ocean. just a bit frustrating to get used to. am tempted to go back to the LEIs but not just yet.

packing strap? dont think mine came with a packing strap!! I like what you said about moving around if its too inflated but this beach was so busy with kiters that it would have been hard to find the space!

yugga - 26-6-2009 at 11:16 AM

sand on the trailing edge worked a traet in 18 knots today. best session yet!!! i am beaming

yugga - 26-6-2009 at 11:27 AM

good video but i think the 'pre inflation' shown would not be a good idea for the neo

ragden - 26-6-2009 at 12:33 PM

You can launch the neo without it inflated. Takes a bit of effort, but once its airborne, it will pick up shape pretty quickly. I've watched a few friends do that. Seemed to work jsut fine for them...

acampbell - 26-6-2009 at 01:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ragden
You can launch the neo without it inflated. Takes a bit of effort, but once its airborne, it will pick up shape pretty quickly. I've watched a few friends do that. Seemed to work jsut fine for them...


Yes but it staggers around like a drunken jellyfish and tip-tucks until it inflates, I have found. I find that when stepping back to launch, if you pause for a minute when the leading edge comes up, it will pre-inflate a bit and make the launch a bit more graceful.

yugga - 27-6-2009 at 03:55 AM

whats the best way of getting sand out the kite. open the dirtouts and shake with a helper? or will this come out naturally while flying like the water does?

csa_deadon - 27-6-2009 at 02:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by acampbell
Quote:
Originally posted by ragden
You can launch the neo without it inflated. Takes a bit of effort, but once its airborne, it will pick up shape pretty quickly. I've watched a few friends do that. Seemed to work jsut fine for them...


Yes but it staggers around like a drunken jellyfish and tip-tucks until it inflates, I have found. I find that when stepping back to launch, if you pause for a minute when the leading edge comes up, it will pre-inflate a bit and make the launch a bit more graceful.


I actually think it looks really cool as it flaps its bat wings. lol
First time I launched I was laughing my butt off. Not that I thought it was goofy lookin, just looked like it was flying on its own.

acampbell - 27-6-2009 at 04:22 PM

Just don't forget to close the zipper. That's a mistake you make only once! "Gee it's flying kind of odd... kind of mushy..."

I now close the zipper on roll-up and pack down, just to make sure it's closed when I launch next.

_thephantom_ - 28-6-2009 at 03:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by yugga
good video but i think the 'pre inflation' shown would not be a good idea for the neo

why do you say this?

yugga - 28-6-2009 at 05:48 PM

the less inflated it is the less chance there is of getting overpowered! any thoughts on getting sand out?

acampbell - 28-6-2009 at 06:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by yugga
the less inflated it is the less chance there is of getting overpowered!


Respectfully, no I don't think so. the kind of pre-inflation you do on the ground as in the FS video, or by leaving the kite with the leading edge propped up for a minute before launch will make the launch easier and more graceful, but will not let the kite get overpowered. You really need to horse it around the wind window to fully inflate and power up properly. I once launched with the zipper open and it took full natural shape, but never powered up fully. Just stayed kind of mushy.

Quote:
any thoughts on getting sand out?


The ribs/ profiles end before the trailing edge, leaving a channel. The trailing edge is shaped such that sand and water will tend to migrate to the tips where they can be evacuated via the dirt-outs. edit: If you get lot of water in it you can really dry it out by flying with toilet paper tubes or something similar propped in the dirt-outs to keep them open, then zip it around the sky a bit.

yugga - 18-7-2009 at 11:14 AM

hey, just a question. when you attach a leash to the neo handle do you find it sometimes pulls on the brakes a bit? maybe i need to use a longer leash or put it nearer to the front of my harness!

acampbell - 18-7-2009 at 11:36 AM

Yeah try closer to the front like on the bar or hook. The weight of the leash alone should not bother the brakes.
(I saw your email but had to shut down in a hurry due to a storm - on the iPhone here)

yugga - 18-7-2009 at 11:37 AM

eek. nasty. we had a tornado on the beach the other day!

bond - 18-7-2009 at 05:19 PM

Hi everyone,

I am new to the Neo and hoped that some of you experienced guys could give me some advice. I am trying to decide where to attach a safety leash. Once obvious place is the 8 ring (having removed the yellow safety line). The trouble is that if I let go of the bar the kite is still powered and it would be difficult to reach the Primary. My initial thought was to connect the leash to the Primary (instead of the yellow line) but realise that this could cause accidental release of the Primary. Connecting to one side of the brake lines does not sound ideal.
If you could please give me some advice. I guess that the situation I am trying to cover is how to release if I am being dragged along a beach. Under these circumstances I believe that the Primary hat would be very difficult to reach.

Many thanks.

yugga - 19-7-2009 at 03:57 AM

try the little red loop on the landing strap (the one you use for the ground stake)

thats what i do but ive never actually tested it!!! too scared!! lemme know how u get on!!

_thephantom_ - 19-7-2009 at 04:25 AM

Hi

yes the attach a leash from your harness to the little loop on the back of the cross line that joins the 2 brake lines together. This is the same method as an Ozone depowerable foil.

If you need to control the kite you can in the circumstances you describe -Pull the release on the chicken loop this will immediately deploy to the brake, then use the top hat.

Its preferable that the top hat is primary safety release. But if things happen fast - its quite important to be prepared and to have practiced releasing your self from the kite by pulling the chicken loop release. In this case your leash activates the brakes and pulls the kite out of the sky.

Its important to control the kite further and you do this by pulling in on only one of the brake lines. This flags the kite out.

There is a few posts on the procedure on the forum which can fill in the picture for you.

The Neo manual is not brilliant at all of this explanation. If you want to have a better description then download the Ozone depowerable foil manual off their website. Its the same, by another name.

yugga - 21-7-2009 at 08:27 AM

does your leash ever get twisted around the depower line/strap? any way to avoid that

neo primary safety

yugga - 12-9-2009 at 10:34 AM

something really strange has happened to my neo. last time i tried to launch it didnt respond to the bar properly. kept flipping around and pulled me along a beach which was luckily open and sandy. i pulled the safety

when i went to reconnect i noticed a larkshead knot connecting the loop in the depower rope coming from the bar, to another loop which goes to the centre lines.

this knot is above the top hat and therefore prohibits me from reconnecting the primary properly. what has happened and how do i fix it. just doesnt look right!!
ive not noticed that knot before but doesnt mean it wasnt there. but there are two knots. this one and the one above the pin.

luckily i had a north evo on loan so still had a good session but i need my neo for monday! please help!!!

acampbell - 12-9-2009 at 12:13 PM

Post a pic if you can; I'm not sure I get it. There is a connection right above the top hat. It is not a larkshead but two loops slipped together to connect the line that goes to the cam-cleat and back down to the power adjust strap. From the back of the cam cleat, the center line goes up to the pulley near the center line connection, then back down to the pin in the safety. The loop a the end of that line goes over the pin folded over and the top had slips over.

acampbell - 13-9-2009 at 05:18 AM

I can't see my reply on page 2 of this post...

[edit] Thanks Maven; that shook it loose...[/edit]

Maven454 - 13-9-2009 at 05:28 AM

Let's see if this fixes accessing the second page...

[EDIT] Yep. [/EDIT]

neo safety

yugga - 14-9-2009 at 02:27 AM

see attached photo. the knot gets caught in the top hat before the pin gets close enough

neo problem.jpg - 34kB

acampbell - 14-9-2009 at 06:07 AM

So the top-hat has pulled down over the bottom knot. It will go back up with some effort. On later bars they have added another stopper ball there.

yugga - 15-9-2009 at 01:33 AM

i now know what happens if you pull the chicken loop release with the leash attached in high winds. it spins round and round and drags you on your belly up the beach until somebody brave enough jumps on it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

acampbell - 15-9-2009 at 04:58 AM

Get a safety leash and run it to the center of the landing handle and back to your harness . You can use it to reach the landing handle and flag the kit on the back lines, if the handle is otherwise just tout of reach, as it is for me. The idea of a "leashless safety" is questionable to me, as I have accidentally come unhooked with a Apex and Montana and have had a rough go with the Neo as you have in high winds trying to put it down.

yugga - 15-9-2009 at 05:34 AM

so youre saying just pull on the leash rater than pulling the chicken loop release? they are a bit of a handful! hopefully as they evolve the safety will improve

acampbell - 15-9-2009 at 05:47 AM

The leash makes it easier to grab the brakes/ landing handle to flag the kite more after you have dumped it on the primary safety. And if you have to dump the whole kite by pulling the chicken loop, or if you become unhooked by accident, you have not lost the kite, just dumped it on the brakes

yugga - 15-9-2009 at 06:06 AM

yesterday i had the leash on. 1st pulled primary, then chicken loop, and it was still going haywire!!

yugga - 23-9-2009 at 04:58 AM

anybody found that the lines/sleeving degrades quite quickly on the neo when used alot on water?

also ive found the kite fabric is beginning to wear a bit and have had to patch quite a few pin holes