Power Kite Forum

Good low wind engine

Drewculous - 29-6-2009 at 09:27 AM

Angus got into a convo in another post about getting skunS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-d out in low wind days, and swears by the reactor 10(.7 i think)... This happened to me yesterday :mad:... Some wind but not enough for my 5.6

I got to thinking, is it really the design of the reactor thant makes it good in low winds, or the fact that its freakin huge!

The only other kite i can think of in that price range and size is a crossfire 10

Didnt know if there were other Fixed bridal kites that fit in this category or not? let the information tsunami commence!

lunchbox - 29-6-2009 at 09:56 AM

Design and size definitely play a part.

I have a Reactor 8.3 and love those frickin' kites. Powerful, good upwind and very stable. If I can say anything bad about them, it would be that I wish the fabric was a little lighter and the bridle knots bother me sometimes (fixed in version 2). Fabric chosen I'm sure was a good mix of durability and light weight...just my own .02!

I also have a Yak 10 which is amazing. Their ability to generate apparent wind is great and I love the material. Upwind is awesome.

For really light wind...IMHO, it's gotta be big and a fixed bridle!

sunset-Jim - 29-6-2009 at 10:22 AM

I have to say that I LOVE my rm+ 14m for those very light wind days. 4-5 mph winds and I'm moving along quite nicely (15-20) when others with even 10m fixed bridle kites can't keep them in the air. And if the wind does pic up just enough for the 10's to stay up, watch out because I'm cookin with gas....:Ange09:

I even had a decent session with winds not even reaching 4. Although I did need some help from the slope of the beach. Just by going down the slope (a very gradual one at that) I was able to generate enough apparent to keep going. Then a tack followed by a continuing loop would get me back up the slope just enough to repeat. The length of each run was roughly a 1/4 mi or so.

The one down-side though, is that the wind doesn't have to pic up much more than 6-7 and you are overpowered for sure. So it does have a pretty small wind range.

acampbell - 29-6-2009 at 11:09 AM

Crossfires are built well but are heavy for their size. I weighed a 7.7 Crossfire sail and it was 1/2 pound more than my 8.3 m Reactor sail. You really have to keep the Crossy moving to keep it up.

The larger sized Reactors have a higher A/R which helps efficiency and light air performance. Of course the Yak and the rm will have even higher A/R's. Also similar to the race foils, the Reactor has a thinner, low-lift but faster profile.

Upwind performance is great but you have to be strapped in on a strop or you just can't hold on.

awindofchange - 29-6-2009 at 11:33 AM

I've got a 14 meter Yakuza here that has only seen daylight maybe once or twice max. I got it on trade from another pilot who wanted to try something smaller (think it scared the you-know-what outta him).

Kite is basically brand new. Would be willing to let it go for 500.00. Includes lines and handles.

The larger race kites are the ultimate light wind weapons. The 14 meter Yak will fly in basically zero wind once you get it airborne.

Drewculous - 29-6-2009 at 11:53 AM

damn thats a big FB kite:o

im not really in the market right now, but its good to know :thumbup:

maybe i should change the thread to yak v reactor?

ragden - 29-6-2009 at 12:12 PM

I would be seriously scared to fly something that big, with that much aspect ratio. I got the snot beaten out of my by a 3.5 race kite one day when a gust lofted me straight out of my buggy. You would need really steady winds to even consider something that big... :)

BeamerBob - 29-6-2009 at 12:42 PM

I'm no fan of getting controlled by a kite, but that 10.8 is a teddy bear in the right winds. In those 4 mph winds, I couldn't get going with my little 8.3 Reactor :o so Angus and I started talking about the 10.8 and he graciously went back to the car to bring it to the beach. I hot launched it since the winds were so low, but no problem. The first thing I noticed was a higher A/R. The 10.8 has a 4.5 instead of the familiar 4 on my 4.9 and 8.3. I made one run up the beach to see how it worked and quickly decided to hook up a strop to it because of the load it generated. Then I headed up the beach and clocked over 24 mph. I'm sure I didn't go 6 times the speed of the wind but it couldn't have picked up (briefly) to more than 6-7 if at all. A time or two I started to feel overpowered but just easily brought it up overhead and it gradually eased up the power. I imagine this kite could lift you if you got careless in way too much wind and sent it behind you, but this kite is for those days when nothing else will fly, so drop back to an appropriate kite if the wind picks up. Bottom line....... I'll have one of these in my quiver pretty soon. It can mean the difference between riding or just sitting there.

acampbell - 29-6-2009 at 01:09 PM

My 10.8 Reactor just left to go back to Peter Lynn in Holland on loan. They are mounting an expedition with four buggy riders heading 2500 km across the Sahara Desert and they needed to track down four biggies for light wind days.:wee:

lad - 29-6-2009 at 02:31 PM

snobdr - 29-6-2009 at 02:49 PM

nothing beats a flysurfer silver arrow

acampbell - 29-6-2009 at 02:51 PM

LOL. That was at Treasure Island this last winter. The second guy flying after me is local Peter Boyton. You can tell he is a Rev flier; even with a 10.8, he feels obligated to spin the kite the minute it leaves the ground.

Kamikuza - 29-6-2009 at 06:22 PM

Hmm ... I wonder ... do I need a 14m kite ...?

JAE - 29-6-2009 at 06:35 PM

awindofchange U2U sent

WIllardTheGrey - 29-6-2009 at 06:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kamikuza
Hmm ... I wonder ... do I need a 14m kite ...?


no you NEED a 140m:wee:

awindofchange - 29-6-2009 at 07:06 PM

Reply sent JAE.

These large giants are really for the pilot who wants to buggy in the lightest of winds. They are HUGE so only experienced pilots should even consider getting one of these things. That being said, they are incredibly awesome in the buggy. My 12 and 14 meter YaS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s get me going on the lakebed in winds as light as 1-2 mph. It's pretty amazing to be able to 360 the kite while in the buggy, suicides are incredible as the kite produces so much apparent wind that it just whips around when you can barely feel any wind at all. Its kind of like flying a Greyhound bus or Tractor Trailer - big, giant, slow but oh so powerful!!!!!

I will always have a spot in my quiver for a giant sized kite such as the 14 or even the new 17 meter Yakuza GT, the 10 Crossfire or the 10.5 Reactor fits the bill nicely as well. Just gotta watch out for those gusts (3-5 mph gusts normally don't even register on a smaller kite, with one of these you really feel it and its a cheek clincher...those are wicked scary with a sail that size). 7-8 mph and you are ready to put the kite down and switch to a smaller size...like an 8 meter. LOL

dylanj423 - 29-6-2009 at 09:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by snobdr
nothing beats a flysurfer silver arrow


fixed bridles are better in lighter winds, though..... you must admit. not that the SA isnt sweet.... but a 17m fixed bridle catches more air than a 17m SA could

snobdr - 30-6-2009 at 10:30 AM

Yes but the SA has more range

ragden - 30-6-2009 at 10:36 AM

The SA is going to be better on the water, no doubt. But on land, you might be better off with the fixed bridle. It is going to pull more power per square foot of fabric, which I think is the point here.

Dont get me wrong, the power of the SA kites is unbelieveable on the water. But when it comes to riding the buggy, i think these giant fixed-bridle kites win out... :)

snobdr - 30-6-2009 at 01:16 PM

but Rag youve seen Foilbrian snow kiting with his SA, wouldnt the buggy be the same deal? With the depower you can manage gusts better and you have added wind range. I dont really see the advantage of a fixed bridal kite other then cost factor.

A fixed will pull more power but that i think is negligible with this size kite.

This was discussed with a foil guy that had converted a kite from fixed to depower and the power loss was next to nill, and that was a smaller kite.

tridude - 30-6-2009 at 04:57 PM

low wind performance vs manageable.................snob hit the nail on the head....................my old XXXL may have had SA 15/17 power but was unmanageable above 12/13 mph.............I could fly it rather it flew me................Im sure I can manage a SA 15, 17, or 19 on to at least 17/18ish mph on a landboard.................

BeamerBob - 30-6-2009 at 10:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Drewculous
Angus got into a convo in another post about getting skunS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-d out in low wind days, and swears by the reactor 10(.7 i think)... This happened to me yesterday :mad:... Some wind but not enough for my 5.6

I got to thinking, is it really the design of the reactor thant makes it good in low winds, or the fact that its freakin huge!

The only other kite i can think of in that price range and size is a crossfire 10

Didnt know if there were other Fixed bridal kites that fit in this category or not? let the information tsunami commence!


Since the first post in the thread was specific about it being an extreme low wind and fixed bridle discussion, (at a particular price point) we should stick to that line of thinking, and as nice as the silver arrows surely are, when it comes to riding in the buggy with 3-4 mph winds, can the SA really get you going and maintain 12-16 mph? Will it even fly with those winds, much less create usable power? I'm not being a troll here, but just want to know since I haven't flown one or been informed by someone that knows. I've really come to appreciate depower in the last 6 months but they haven't been my answer to low wind situations with my quiver, but then again they weren't supposed to.

ragden - 1-7-2009 at 06:06 AM

I've never flown an SA in winds that low. I dont own one (yet), so I cannot comment on how well it will perform in low winds for buggy riding. I would be a little hesitant to fly something that big in any kind of wind unless it was extremely stable wind. The smallest gust is going to loft you pretty high with a kite that big. I dont know, I would guess it could work, I would just be hesitant to do it...

awindofchange - 1-7-2009 at 12:53 PM

The SA is a great kite, and awesome power but it still can't match the power output of the fixed bridled kites in the winds we are talking about. I can buggy in 1-2 mph wind with the 14 meter Yak (dry lake bed, very little resistance). The SA would be a beast to try and even launch, let along try and fly in those winds. I may be possible but where the Yak would be in the air and powered, you would be running and heaving to get the SA inflated and airborne.

That being said, you still have to do a little work and fine line finesse with the Yak to get it in the air but it would go up and stay in the air much easier than the SA would. The SA would have more wind range but you really need about 5-6 mph winds to even consider launching it. Anything less than that would be major work and very little fun. The power (and apparent power) of the 14 meter Yak is huge compared to the 17 SA.

Just my opinion of the two.

awindofchange - 1-7-2009 at 12:54 PM

Oh and BTW, the 14 meter Yakuza has been sold. Sorry for everyone who has been PM'n me on this kite and that missed out on it, it went to its new owner almost instantly.

snobdr - 1-7-2009 at 01:12 PM

anything flying int 1-2 id like to see.

BeamerBob - 1-7-2009 at 02:00 PM

I'm sure after seeing how the big Reactor did in 4-5 mph, that another 3m of fabric would let you get by with a few mph less wind regarding the yak. You would have even less range in trade though. 1-2 mph kite flying would be awesome.

acampbell - 1-7-2009 at 02:13 PM

If I launch the 10.8 Reactor in a puff of 3-4, I can buggy in 1-2 if it is steady. I carry a 4' pole with streamers on it to stick in the sand as a wind tell tale, and it's gratifying to go by it in the buggy and note that they are pretty much standing still.

BeamerBob - 1-7-2009 at 03:02 PM

I've gotta get one of those when the IIs come out. Oh no, now I have to pick the color!

Drewculous - 1-7-2009 at 03:27 PM

reactor is def going in the want list... prolly sooner than later, the wind situation this week is freaking killing me.. went out at lunch and got some 360 in with the twister.... thats how you know there is no wind
:wee:

awindofchange - 1-7-2009 at 04:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by snobdr
anything flying int 1-2 id like to see.


Anything??

I do have indoor kites that I fly quite a bit in zero wind. There are also indoor competitions that are held around the U.S. and other countries. Lincoln City has one of the larger indoor festivals and they have quite a few competitors that go head to head every year.

I have flown larger foils in zero winds, it is a ton of work but once you get the kite in the air it will stay as long as you keep it moving. Flying 360's is a workout and fun - and pretty impressive if you haven't seen it done before. ---360 is flying the kite around in a full 360' circle with the pilot in the center. NABX '07 myself and Dean J. were flying a 5.0 Yakuza in 360's as a demo to some photographers that were interested in the event.

Indoor flying is an art and very fun - something to do when the other stuff won't fly. :)

acampbell - 1-7-2009 at 04:22 PM

I'm kinda hoping a camel eats my 10.8 on the Sahara trip so that they will have to replace it with a R II ;-)

BeamerBob - 1-7-2009 at 05:29 PM

Angus, like I told you when I ordered the 8.3, my kite flying time is precious and hard to obtain. I can't afford NOT to have a kite like that to open the door to roll the buggy when you really don't have much to work with. I was most impressed. Thinking about the IIs being even a notch better is most intriguing. I wondered about overlap but you can't skip the 8.3 or the 10.8. They both have their days.

Bladerunner - 6-7-2009 at 05:17 PM

Pablo had a 16m PKD Century that flew in extreme low wind. That is if you knew how to fly it.
I was still s bit of a beginer and had trouble with it. When there was enough wind that I could fly it , it scared the crap out of me.

PKD made a huge Combat as well but I have never heard how they worked in low wind.

ripsessionkites - 6-7-2009 at 09:53 PM

you all need the PL Vapor 16.1m ... especially in pink too.

pink is the new black ---> j/k

what until you see the colours schemes for the RIIs and Vapors ... very nice!!!

Drewculous - 7-7-2009 at 10:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ripsessionkites
you all need the PL Vapor 16.1m ... especially in pink too.

pink is the new black ---> j/k

what until you see the colours schemes for the RIIs and Vapors ... very nice!!!


ill demo the 16.1 pink vapor for ya ;) those kites are freakin sweet (the red/white/black one looks just plain sick!)

no, it just sux, wind-wise, around here lately... its either no wind, or balls to the wall gales! a giant FB kite is calling me...

lad - 7-7-2009 at 09:02 PM

This may sound off-the-wall, but I don't think Feyd would mind me quoting him here:

He told me his modded 12m Ranger "pulls like a FS 15m P4" and is his "go to on light wind days when my 19m Syn won't pull me." He recommends adding 5-7m extensions to it.

I just tried 20' extensions on mine and could at least get it flying a bit in some very low winds. Not bad for $199! ;)