Regarding LEI kites is there a real difference in quality as far as build and material between the main companies like Eclipse, Ocean Rodeo, Naish, Cabrinah and Best? Do some really stand head and shoulders above the rest in quality? Looking for feedback from those that have first hand experience with them. Appreciate the input.

Slingshot and Cabrinha seem to hold up the longest from what I've seen. but they are also both the most expensive.

the used LEI market sucks and kites change quite a bit every few years. I would recommend saving some money buying current - 1yr old and using it for 1-3 years before you purchase again.

a lot of it really depends on how much you ride and how well you care for your gear too.

if you keep your kites dry. keep sand out of them and don't ride them into the ground then they will probably last a few years.


I'm a bit of a gear #@%$#! so I tend to sell off my used gear before its fully depreciated out to try and get on something under a year old.

Ozone and Caution are some of the best built LEI's on the market (in my opinion of course).

It seems that those two models have the least amount of repairs out of all the others. I know the older "BEST" kites were repair nightmares and don't think those were near the quality of today's models. Ozone and Caution are somewhat newer brands (less market impact than the big names) so that may also contribute to their low repair numbers although the Caution kites are pretty dominant in our area. I also use the Caution kites myself as well as the Peter Lynn Twinskins and think the construction and durability of the Caution kites is a notch above most other brands.

I think that if you stick with one of the main manufacturers and take care of your gear, you should be able to get a good season or two out of any of today's LEI's before quality issues start to surface.

I've had a mixed experience with my Best Waroo quiver. They are all 2007s, and I bought all of them used within the past 12 months. I've had a TON of sessions on them since last summer and I haven't had too many probs but here's a short history on each:

9m Waroo: No problems so far. I spotted one small pinhole after my first session with it. I sail taped it on both sides, and have had no probs since. I've lent this kite to a friend who was taking lessons on it, and she pounded the everliving crap out of it (on water) and it took the beating without issue for all of her 2hr lesson. By pounding I mean a few tomahawks on botched water starts and various types of crashes typical of beginners. I've flown it since and haven't noticed anything wrong with it. I recently set it up as a kite tent ALL DAY for me and a buddy and flew it the weekend after that and didn't notice any probs with it at all.

11m Waroo Pro: NO leaks or rips ever. One of my most used kites. It's been crashed on land a few times (test flight, kitelandboarding, kitebuggying) but hasn't suffered any damage. Crashed on water a few times by friends and I, and no probs yet.

13m Waroo: Ok, this is where things get odd.. This was my buddy's kite purchased new in 2007 and one day a few months ago the leading edge popped while he was pumping it for no apparent reason. He RELIGIOUSLY pumped every strut and the leading edge to the recommended PSI in the owner's manual. He carefully inspected the leading edge afterward, and had no idea why it popped. He bought an 08 Waroo a few days later and sold me the blown 13m for $100. I had it repaired for $165 a few weeks ago and have had 3 very powered sessions on it and have had no problems since. This kite is becoming my favorite, btw.. Lots of range on this 13m

15m Waroo: This is another of my most used kites. My only issue so far was that I hadn't noticed it developed a small scuff on the leading edge and one day as I was pumping it opened up. It was only about 3 inches long and I deflated the kite the second I noticed it, so it didn't run any more than 3 inches. I had the rip repaired for 35 bux and have since flown it with no other probs.

As far as the 13 and 15 issues, I think their rips were caused by leaving the kites 'parked' on the ground for extended periods of time thus causing tiny rips. The areas we ride are grassy or have rocks/sticks on them and we could have parked them on something that cause the small tears. Lesson learned on those: Check the area before parking the kites, or deflate the LE (leave struts inflated), roll it up, and put it in the bag if I think I'm going to use it again later in the day


1st hand experience with other brands:
Slingshot: 2 of my buddies have had Slingshots rip on them after crashing them. One was a HARD crash (brand new SS Rev on its 3rd session tomahawked on hardpacked sand), and the other was a crash into waves (brand new SS T3 on its 4th session). Both had tears on the side panels closer to the wingtips. The REV was torn on one panel from leading edge to trailing edge, and the T3 was torn in an L shape along the leading edge and up one strut. The T3 repair was warrantied by SS, and the REV repair was paid out of pocket by my buddy not realizing he could have made a warranty claim. REV owner is an experienced kiter who was practicing jumping to blind and crashed, and T3 owner was an intermediate kiter praciting boosting. Both kiters were unharmed.

(Note: This isn't a knock on Slingshot quality at all -they are supposed to be one of the toughest kites out there. I'm just telling you what I've seen in my circle of kite buddies. If I could afford a REV I or II, or an RPM, I'd probably be riding one of those. They are awesome kites.)

Cabrinha: I had 3 older Cab C-kites and never had a problem with them. I only flew them on water and never experienced a problem with them after crashing them (I used them during my learning phase at first, then moved to Waroos). I've READ that durability was an issue with them for a while (older Xbows & Switchblades) but haven't seen/heard anything first hand. I watched their 2010 product line videos and they claim to have switched to a stronger & more durable canopy fabric and increased structural strength and durability overall.

North: I have a buddy who lives in Corpus Christi and has 2 or 3 kite 09 Rebel quiver. He's been happy with them ever since he got them but has had to replace 2 or 3 bladders on them because he lives across the street from the beach we kite at, and leaves his struts inflated in his SUV *all the time*. He leaves them inflated because he kites EVERY DAY (WHERE IS THE RAGE/JEALOUSY EMOTICON GRRRR). He moved to CC in March and has only NOT kited 7 days since >=( :'(

A quick note about newer Best EZ Pump kites (08/09): I've read (their forums and elsewhere) that *sometimes* the internal connections on the EZ Pump versions of their kites can be leaky. Given that they bladders are connected internally, troubleshooting the location leak can also prove difficult. Their newer (2nd gen 2009, I believe) EZ Pump kites have the LE-Strut connections on the outside. I'd recommend getting the non-EZ versions 08/09 kites.

A quick note about leaky bladders: We all know that crashing an LEI on land can cause leaks, but the main thing I read/hear about with regards to leaks is the inflation valves leaking. The main reason they end up leaking is because people leave their LEIs in the car and the heat causes them to become detached from the main bladder. My recommendation to LEI owners would be to not leave them in your car or inflated for extended periods of time. If you have to leave them in your car, crack the windows or leave them out of direct sunlight. And by 'extended periods of time' I mean more than 2 or 3 days. I've left my 11m's struts inflated for 2 or 3 days and found all the struts were rock solid when I deflated them, but it was sitting in my air conditioned apartment the whole time.

I think any kite you end up buying will last you a while if you've got good kite control (don't crash it too often) and take proper care of it when it's not in flight (careful with parking it, rinse with freshwater if flown in salt water, keep it out of extreme heat).

Thankyou for the great input!

I have contacted one of the kiteboarders in my area. He flys with a group of guys around here all the time on one of the lakes out here.

I noticed that he has purchased all new gear and has his old gear for sale. This group of guys all flys Best Waroos.

He has a 2007 9M and 12M for sale. He said he will sell me the 9M for $350 with bar and lines and bag. I am thinking about trying for the 12M.

I haven't seen much info on here about Best Waroos. But what little I have seen seem like they aren't too bad.

The thing that I am really excited about is that I can try it our before I buy it. He is gonna call me this weekend and I can go try out my very first depower kite!!!!!! Then if I like it - I can buy it.

It seems like most folks on here prefer foils and arcs over LEIs, but I think given my situation this might be the best situation.

Other than auot-zenith - I don't see a huge advandtage of arcs over LEIs.

Here is a a video of them flying. Looks like a lot of fun!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR240VskAA8

Plus if for some reason I end up not liking it. i can get a hundred bucks out of it later, and get an arc then or something else . . . right?

Anyone have a comment for me?

soccerflyer,

I think it's great that he will let you try before you buy. If you feel comfortable with it, go for it! I was a little intimidated by my Fuel the first time, but now I love it! Is he going to set you up with a harness and leash too?

Needs more cowbell?

My Slingshot TD2 has had some repairs done on it, and shortly after I started using it, I noticed a tear along the leading edge. Cost fifty dollars to get it replaced and havent had a problem since. Most kites will hold up just fine if you treat them well. I've read some stuff about some of the Naish kites having problems with leaky valves and with their lead edges bursting, but not something that is overly common.

I know snobdr has a bunch of north and best kites that are pretty old. I'd be curious to see his thoughts on this thread...

The other thing I can say is the LEIs are all pretty similiar. You really have to get out there and fly them and find something you like. Thats awesome that he will let you give them a shot. You will beat up your kites pretty good while learning. It is just part of the process. Bear that in mind while you are flying his kites.

Thanks guys!

Jovver ya the kite comes with lines and bar - ready to fly. I will still have to pick up a harness though. He might have a used one of those I could get too - I dunno. Glad you sold your Blaze II - whew - that was killing me ;-)

I just wanted to hear from some guys who have LEIs that like them!!!! So, thanks.

ragden,

I gotta disease and the only cure is more cowbell!!!! lol I think all kites get worn and need repairs sometimes don't they? Just because LEIs have bladders don't make them that much more prone to problems does it?

I am interested to hear from snobdr too!!!

Thanks for the comments!!!!!

How about a pump? An RTF LEI is useless without a pump... And yeah, I'm glad I finally sold the Blaze II as well, I wasn't flying it anymore because I couldn't progress with it.

soccerflyer, check your U2U inbox....

Yeah an LEI without a pump is really useless. Best pumps? Hm... I've broken a couple of those. The one thing I can say about a pump, be gentle with it. I got over excited trying to inflate my kite quickly one day and tore the damn thing apart. When I asked a local dealer about it, the conversation when like this:

"I broke my Best pump."
"How many sessions have you had it?"
"This is the second time I've used it."
"You have exceeded its lifetime of uses. Pretty standard for a Best pump. You might want to try a different brand..."

Picked up a North pump for 20 dollars, love it. Works great. Includes a gauge as well. But the best thing I can say, pump slowly. Take your time, dont pull up on the pump with too much force or you may break something... :saint:

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Originally posted by soccerflyer I think all kites get worn and need repairs sometimes don't they? Just because LEIs have bladders don't make them that much more prone to problems does it?

True, but when an LEI fails over water, its bad. Having a bladder explode because of a weakness in the leading edge... Bad. Basically, inspect your kite before you inflate and treat every tear as a potential for total destruction and yer fine.

Ya, I guess I will need a pump huh? Thanks for the advice. I will take it easy on whatever pump I get.

Jovver - U2U sent.

I just don't know enough about LEIs. I don't know what to look for. I don't know what is difference between kites? What characteristics I would even want. All I know is that there is a group of kitesurfers here that kitesurf at a local lake about an hour away and they have been doing it for a LONG time. They are older dudes. They all fly Waroos and swear by em.

If you look at my sig you'll see my quiver is all Best Bularoos and Waroos. Before this quiver, I flew Peter Lynns for 6 years. Build quality on the kites in my quiver are as good as any LEI I've seen. I've flown Cabrinhas, Norths and Royals (and several others) recently and I prefer the "simplicity" of the Best kites and bar system. Not as fancy as some, but certainly as functional for 99% of the kiters in the world. I've got 2 1/2 years out of my current quiver and they still look pretty much brand new (but I'm pretty anal about keeping them in good shape). I'd say realistically, you will probably get 4+ years use from kites like mine if you take care of them. If you do have issues with the kite it's likely to be a leak in one of the bladders or a rip because of a crash. Not as durable as a foil perhaps, but not bad considering. I got my entire quiver (new, late season discount) for about the price of one Flysurfer.

Thanks for the info bigkahuna!! What is the difference in the Bularoo and Waroo?

Will an LEI work good for both landboarding and kitesurfing?

What year are your kites? I have heard that the 06 Waroo is crap for some reason . . . ????

There are pumps sold at Walmart and Academy for 8 dollars that are higher capacity than the Best pumps. I have one and it has lasted me for over a year and I've had a TON of sessions this year.

Found it:
http://www.pcliquidations.com/item.asp?id=4127

Thanks for the tip burritobandit!

You like your Waroos? What are the pros and cons of them?

Have you flown any PL Arcs? How would you say they stack up?

Tread lightly - I do NOT intend for this to become heated dicussion of LEI vs. Arc. That fight is old.

I am only interested in opinions from people who have flown both Arcs and LEIs and what their objective observations are!!!!

I really dig my 2007 Waroos. I've had a great experience and progressed a ton on them.

Pros:
1. They were cheap (got 3 of them in great condition used offa Ebay for less than $900bux)
2. They are stable.
3. They have a huge windrange
4. They've done fairly well at surviving crashes and self-launches/landings.
5. They relaunch easily
6. They provide a good amount of bar pressure so I can *feel* what the kite is doing/where the kite is in the window without having to look.

Cons:
1. Self launching/landing brings the possibility of rips and leaks. I put a leak in my 13m two weeks ago, and a small rip on the leading edge of my 15m. Both incidents were related to self launching/landing. The 15's been repaired and flies great. The 13 still needs a patch.
2. The possibility of inflation valves coming unglued due to heat. (I am vigilant about not leaving my kites in car during the day or in hot areas. )


I've flown one Peter Lynn Arc (18m G2), but I can't really comment on its performance because the wind was very light (dropping to almost nothing) both of the days I flew it. I was also flying it on a 2008 55cm Best Bar which probably wasn't providing the proper amount of steering input. I've since traded it for a 10m Blade 3 with a depower mod. I have a local kitebuddy who flies nothing but Peter Lynns and he's out there doin the same thing we are, just a tad quicker since he doesn't have to pump.

I, too, seriously hope this thread doesn't devolve into an LEI vs ARC/Flysurfer debate. I'm so sick of those threads and comments. In the end we're all doing the same thing - flying kites and having fun.

You could definitely fly the LEIs for landboarding. I'm sure they will work just fine for that. Just be careful of where you land and launch your kite. I prefer to keep my LEI over the water, but thats just me.

Quote:

Thanks for the info bigkahuna!! What is the difference in the Bularoo and Waroo?

The Bularoo was designed to be more of an "all terrain" kite and was built a bit beefier than the Waroo and had the "one pump". I noticed they stopped making Bularoos, shame it's a great kite.

Quote:

Will an LEI work good for both landboarding and kitesurfing?

Technically yes. But IMO landboarding is likely to be tougher on your kites, especially if you land and relaunch it a lot. And, pumping a kite in cold weather has got to be no fun at all.

Quote:

What year are your kites? I have heard that the 06 Waroo is crap for some reason . . . ????

I think they're late season 07's. I heard the same thing about the 06 Waroos.

What I like about my current quiver:
1. Cheap, I bought an entire quiver of just about every size for about $1300
2. Much better low end performance over my Peter Lynns
3. Nearly equal stability in gusty conditions to my Peter Lynns
4. Much faster turning for equally sized kites over my Peter Lynns
5. Just as easy, perhaps easier, to self launch over a Peter Lynn

What I don't like about my tube kites:
1. I hate pumping, and I dread pumping up the 20m (even though it's a great kite once it's up in the air)
2. Self landing is not easy, and in strong winds it can be pretty scarey
3. I'm always worried about a tube leaking

FWIW, the only issue I've had with any of the pumps that came with my Best kites is that the aluminum shaft sometimes gets sticky which makes pumping harder. A bit of grease fixes it. I use my kites at least once every week, sometimes 3 or 4 times a week all year round, and I haven't had a pump break yet.

Yeah, I hate the Best pumps. I've had some Slingshot pumps give me problems too. The only problem I had on the Ozark pump was the hose coming off, but some zipties fixed that EZ.

Thanks guys so much for the advice and comments. I really appreciate it!! This helps a TON!!

Hi, fabulous comment! These types of sites always magnetize me. :wee:

greetings heidy,

glad you're magnetized !...do own a WII?

priceless! :wee:

There is a pretty big difference in the manufacturing quality of the kites

Look at the amount and type of stitching on the kite, especially the leading edge. There are many that still use simple zig zag stitch on the LE which is very suscepable to breaking. Triple zig zag is far better. Also look for extra buffer pads on the leading edge which protect the material and the stitching.

Another good sign is the amount of dacron used throughout the kite, at the wingtips and also along where the canopy joins the LE

The best built kites that I have seen are the Liquid Force range. Most problems I have had are probably with North and the Best Kahoona. Oh....... and the older Waroos!

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