I live in southwestern virginia. it's not exactly a windy place but we get some good days in the winter. generally like 5-15 mph on windy days, probably like 5 - 10 on average. I am new to this and I want to be able to kite board and snow kite. ive read that I need to get a trainer but if that won't pull me around, then there is no reason for me to get one. i don't have the money to learn on something that will need to be replaced in order to kiteboard and snowkite. i was thinking of going with a 4 or 5 meter kite. any suggestions? what makes a trainer kite a trainer kite anyway? is it just the small size?

the conventional wisdom on this forum is to get a 3-4 meter foil on handles to learn on, and this becomes your highwind kite later. so it's not something to be replaced, but has lasting utility.

trainer kites on a bar work well for folks getting into kitesurfing at a school, everybody starts on something in the 3-4 meter size range.

there's a steep learning curve involved, it pays to not rush up it too fast...

your winds don't seem all that strong for winter... are you sure?

lots of guys local to you on here, I'm sure they'll post soon.

Can you fly a kite static yet??

I didn't realize there were some people around here. I think it can be windier but I never paid much attention to the wind untill recently so I can't remember how it is. I'm now looking at some pansch models. I kind of want to get a de-powerable one for safety. I was thinking the blaze II 5.0. I have never flown a power kite before. Basically if I get a 3 or 4 meter kite, will I be able to get pulled around a bit on a mountainboard, possibly a little bit of air?

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack1988 Can you fly a kite static yet??

good question there, for now it sounds like no...

have a look at this thread, the fifth post has good info on progression from somebody who been there (which I haven't, lots of static jumping but no ATB / buggy yet):

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=10614

don't rush up the learning curve, lots of fun to be had along the way...

A "trainer kite" is generally used by people wanting to kitesurf. They are typically 2 to 3m two or three line parafoils flown on a bar. They are used to learn flying skills before moving up to large LEI kites.
When you say kite board, do you mean on water or land? You need to give us some information about yourself for us to give you good advice: What do you weigh? How physically fit are you? Will you have experienced flyers showing you the ropes? How old are you? How old do you wish to become?
If you mean Kite Ground Board (KGB), a de-power open cell foil is suitable for both activities, but harder to learn on. If you mean kite surf, you will need a closed cell foil or a Leading Edge Inflatable (LEI) for the water. LEIs can be used on land, but they are susceptible to damage when crashed on land.
Most land kiters learn to fly on small (2 to 4 sq. m) four line foils that are controlled by handles. These have the more control than four line kites flown on a bar and way more control than two or three line kites on a bar. Some people buy inexpensive foils that they will soon sell as they have out grown them. Others buy a small quality kite that they will learn on and then keep for high wind days. A few people will buy a larger foil kite and learn to fly in lower speed winds or hurt themselves learning to fly in high winds. Small 4 line foils will cost between $200 and $600 new depending on their quality. The higher end kites will have a steeper learning curve (be harder to fly at first), but once you gain some experience they will allow you to progress further.
Buying a big kite to learn on is not a great idea. You can see what happens to a newbie learning to fly and buggy with a 10m de-power kite in my video AlaSCa. It can be done without hurting yourself or others, but you have to be careful, very careful. You must start in very low speed winds and gradually work your way up to winds that will give you real pull. Over estimating your abilities can result in severe damage.
Good luck
S

P.S. I am not a big fan of Pansh kites. A five meter de-power will have the power of a good 2.5m kite. A five meter Pansh de-power will be damned near useless.

You probably don't want to get a Blaze II 5.0. That is a very small depower. Pansh kites are ok for the price, but there are a lot better options out there. Of course they cost more money - which is why I bought two Pansh kites. :P

I don't think in 5-10 mile an hour winds you will even be able to get a 3 meter kite in the air let alone pull you around or jump. Am I wrong guys?

I would recommend a PL Twister 4M for your first kite. They are gonna cost more, but you will be glad in then end. Even if you have to save for a couple months first.

If you have never flown a powerkite before then you need to start small and get you kite skills down first. If you get a kite big enough to jump with now you could really hurt yourself. There are plenty of stories in this forum and scary videos on youtube to prove me right.

When I first checked into this sport I wanted the same thing. I had a tight budget and wanted to get into it, but I wanted to jump. but I took these guys advice and started small. Now I am glad I did. I got a 3M Pansh Blaze to start. This is a great beginner kite to learn on, while still being cheap. I bet you could even picked one up used for a very good bargain. But I have higher winds than you. If I was you I sould get a 4M kite to start out with. If I had it to do over a gain. I would have saved up and gotten a 4M PL Twister to start with. But I still enjoy my Blaze too.

Check this out (if you haven't already) It will answer most of your questions!!

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=1985

3m/4m kites are going to be ur best bet. 5m will be way too much to start out on, plus u won't have as much flying time at the beginning!

Peter Lynn Hornet
HQ Beamer
Ozone has a few

thanks for the advice guys! thanks to soccerflyer - that is the info Ive been looking for and having trouble finding. Some info on me. Im 6'3 - 165 lbs. I'm 25 and I know one guy who has a 16 m kite who could show me some basics. I'm athletic and in good shape and have been mountainboarding for a while. I've surfed, skateboarded and done all kinds of sports. This is a whole new domain for me though. It gets windy here, but it's definitely not like a beach or something. I plan on using the kite on land. Price is a major factor in choosing a kite. I think $300 is about the most I'd spend. My concern with a 3 m trainer kite is that although it would be ideal to learn on, I might not have the wind to use the kite when I have free time (im a grad student). I know it doesn't work like that but that's my situation.

thanks for the advice guys! thanks to soccerflyer - that is the info Ive been looking for and having trouble finding. Some info on me. Im 6'3 - 165 lbs. I'm 25 and I know one guy who has a 16 m kite who could show me some basics. I'm athletic and in good shape and have been mountainboarding for a while. I've surfed, skateboarded and done all kinds of sports. This is a whole new domain for me though. It gets windy here, but it's definitely not like a beach or something. I plan on using the kite on land only, for kiteboarding. Price is a major factor in choosing a kite. I think $300 is about the most I'd spend. My concern with a 3 m trainer kite is that although it would be ideal to learn on, it might not pull me on a board. If I wanted to just fly a kite, I wouldn't bother with a foil kite to begin with. I just want to cruise around on my board and maybe in the snow a little bit.

for traction get a a radais 4- you be goin very fast in no time

serious though-before even thinking about any traction sports you need to go static bruh
on your feet first mate

all the atheletic background is good. Kiting buddy is good. those two things will help you starting out with a beast like the 4.1.

you need to research your winds a bit -- once you start flying you will find you are HYPER aware of wind in a way you never were before -- the twister is a real handful and also just a bit outside your budget but it will pull you on that landboard.

If you go pansh, get a 4m ace, but I don't really recommend that, more like its a doable alternative.

all respect to Jack, but the older radsails aren't really all that good. he's right on about the static part tho, the quickest I've got somebody jumping was three weeks maybe 30 hours of flight time.

You have to be very careful about the power of mother nature. Get the wrong kite and you will barely see the grass move, but when you get your kite in the air and you will be in for a lot more than you can handle, mostly hospital bills. Some kites I wouldn't even fly past 12-15mph winds. For instance I had an ace 8m. This kite would lift me 8-10 feet off the ground in 8-10mph winds just by changing kite direction, not pendulum jumping, just changing direction. This is when I know it was time to put it away if the wind got any higher. Please listen to the advice given on this forum. There are a lot of guys on here, and we are always glad to give assistance. It is good for you and your safety, and it is also good for our sport. Nobody wants to buy 5 kites at several hundred dollars a piece, but we all learn that it is necessary. If you look at our signatures, you will see a laundry list of kites in different sizes for different purposes, and different wind speed. Please fly safe and try to make a good responsible decision.

I've got my selection down to just a few kites after taking your advice. The peter lynn twister II 3.0 (maybe 4.1 meter) and the Rush III Pro 3.0 meter. I like the peter lynn better but I don't think it has the safety features that the Rush has. I do know that the PL has a little more lift which I like. But if the PL twister has 4 lines, you can brake and essentially depower right? I really hope so b/c the PL looks badass even though it's kinda pricey for me. Also, the Rush can relaunch, can the PL do this too?

Again if your wind range is mostly 5-10 I would start with a 4 meter. If you get a 3 meter you are gonna be frustrated. It is hard to fly a 3 meter in anything less than 8 mph winds and even then you have to work it a little (depending on if it is gusty or constant winds). Again I have a 3 M blaze and it is a blast in 8-25 mph winds. But anything less than 8 and I don't even go out. Granted my wind here in Kansas is very gusty and not constant (clean) wind.

I would also go with a 4 line kite for sure. It is a lot more fun and not that much more complicated. In fact you can fly a 4 line kite like a 2 line kite if you want - just loosen up the brakes.

Brakes do NOT equal depower. They do allow you way more control and the ability to lessen the pull on the kite or completely collaps it and it falls to the ground (kite killers). But a true depower system changes the angle of attack which basically means the amount of lift vs. pull. It is different.

wow... from your questions you are new but learning fast....

every word in scudley's post is gold, that's very condensed information there.

4 lines and handles, that's the way to go for kite number one. there is a lot to learn that is best (imho) done beofre adding in a depower. also first depowers are best in the medium sizes, the small ones usually need quite a bit of wind.

the safety is just fine with kite killers mounted on handles for the smaller kites.

if you wear a light loose t-shirt and it flaps loosely some of the time the wind will be 4-6 mph and it will be difficult to fly a 3m well, a 4m will be more comfortable.

if the t-shirt flaps loosely all the time but doesn't have any kind of rhythm to it then you're at 7-8 mph and the 3m wil l be more alive and you might eke out a scud from the 4, but not right away. (easy on wet grass though)

if the t-shirt gets a sort of steady consistent flapping going on, you'll be looking at 9-10, the 3m will be fully alive, and you'll start getting a workout and putting your whole weight on the 4.

so go stand out in the wind somewhere and look at your t-shirt alot!:P

ask a good dealer how the twisters are in light wind performance... I've not flown them but I own about 6 kites in the size range and I've flown a few more, the estimates above will be in the ball-park.

handles are wayyyy better in light winds btw. that should clinck it for you right there.

but do check out the winds in more detail b4 you buy. check local weather station statistics online. remember winds can vary a lot during the day, often in a rhythm with the heat of the sun and the cool of night.

if your winds really are that light you should go to a 4m on 4 lines and handles.

hope that helps...

HQ Kites are reasonably priced as well. The Rush Series especially or the Beamers.

Thanks furbowski. I spoke with mike from bigmikeskite on the phone for a while and he gave me the scoop on some kites. He told me the twister II has more lift and has not as smooth power transfer compared to the PL viper. Thus, the twister is good for some jumping - which I want to do. However, the viper is smoother and better for land boarding - which is my main goal for kiting. So my question is - is the pull and fast power acceleration with twister II not such a good idea for someone learning to kite but has lots of mountainboarding experience, surfing and skateboarding experience? Then, if I learn on the twister, will that lift and accelartion be good for air tricks on the board and getting off the ground later on? Or, since Im learning to kite, would the viper be my best bet even though I wouldn't be able to do much jumping (on board and just in general). Jumping looks fun, but 90% of what I plan on doing is landboarding. I'm getting a kite monday either way and I'm really excited! I Hope someone has some experience with these two kites.

being new, you might want to put off jumping for now--there are very good reasons for this,which i wont get into right now...........

At least the initial enthusiasm has turned into sensible thinking. Dude you deserve some credit for doing your homework. Some of us on here learned the hard way and some have done it the proper way. Sounds like you are well on your way to a long, funfilled kiting experience. Trust me as long as your first experience is a good experience your quiver will grow and you will eventually have a nice fat quiver.Good luck and fly safe!

TBH, you'll get the most joy with ATB when you move into harnesses and depower. This first three or four meter kite is your all-around training kite, with the most sensitive controls, good for learning finesse, and a potential jumper in the 4m size, but if you really get into it, a few years down the road you'll have a depower quiver, or you may have actually gone another direction in your kiting... who knows?

the two priorities are performance in low wind and safety in a wide range of wind. you'll have to sacrifice low wind for wind range and vice versa.

winds in your area are critical! use the weekend to find out more, also suss out flying spots. something with clean wind and loose dry sand is ideal for getting going flying static.

you sound a little like you are selling yourself on your crossover skills and fitness. well, yes they're all applicable, and I think you could probably go ahead and take on a little extra challenge, but if you are unwise with your winds or off in your judgement it could be frustrating and/or risky to go too large too soon.

All great advice here. A 3-4m Beamer or equiv is always the safest learning tool. I learned on th 4.1 twister....check your winds well. I packed it up at 17mph because it drug me around like no tomorrow. I never tried to jump....don't have an urge to do so so I can't comment on that.

Great kite the twister though.

The Viper is smoother transitioning. Not as much come and get you pull you on your face power. Boards you will want depower like an Apex or Montana...and others and a harness, etc.

But those get into a bunch of money. Furbowski is right. Play smart and get something you can afford that is more 'beginner' oriented. You will enjoy that kite even after you move up to another kite later.

Mike

I've got a few spots picked out - they are a bit hilly though. It's hard to find flat open space here in blacksburg, va. I'm gonna order the PL twister II 4.1 on monday and I can't wait to get it. I'll definitely be back on the forum. Thanks for all the help. I hope to be able to contribute something at some point on this forum.

sounds like you're good to go... let us all know how you get on!

hills -- upwind side is best, nearer the top the better but not too close to the back / downwind side....