I am fairly new to the sport. I have several hours with a Beamer 3m and am now looking to move up to a larger size kite. I will be spending most of my time on a snow covered frozen lake this winter with snowblades. I would someday like to progress to the non-frozen water of said lake. so my dilemma is: I have access to a new PL Vortex 10 or 12 meter for a very reasonable price <$700 or should I focus on a newer foil...7-9 meter frenzy or ? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Keith

I got a Vortex 10 recently ... that's all I can add sorry
Try and get a play with it and see if you click. The bigger kites of course turn slower and pull more and the PL will be a bar rather than handles.

... one post and he's already looking to be arcumcised

Keith.

Frenzies are great snowkites. If you really only plan to kite on land they are easy to setup and packdown, and jump great as well.

But, if you want to try water someday and not spend more, you gotta go Peter Lynn. I'd go for the 12. These kites have a big range. In the winter I can ride a 15 Syn pretty much exclusivly. A 12 would be a good size to start with and especially since you're on skis you should be set for the winter and have a kite that you can take to the water to start learning there as well.

Here's a PL snowkite pic from last year to show you how they work.. I can't wait for snow!

If you are planning on riding both snow and water with the same kite, you are probably better off with the PL rather than the Ozone. The Frenzy is an open cell kite, and if it hits the water, chances are pretty good it will sink like a rock and drag you down with it. It might stay inflated for a short period of time, but it will not be fun. An LEI wouldnt be bad for the water, but they are a pain to use in the snow. Granted, I know a lot of people who do use then in the snow. I just hate pumping them up in the summer, can't imagine trying to do it in the winter...

Where do you ride? Perhaps there is someone near you who can let you give their kites a shot...

I am located in southern Minnesota, I have a little time on a bar with the beamer but most of it is with the handles. It seams the bar has much less reaction time as the handles, or the handles provide more throw and thus more response. At any rate, I was wondering with the PL Vortex being a few years old am I giving up any siginficant improvements in kite design as well as control lines or bar configuratoins . Also is ~$700 a good price for a unused PL Vortex 12meter? Thanks again for all the help

$700 is NOT NOT NOT a good price for a vortex!!! you can do much better than that

My first bar based kite was a peter lynn guerilla and it was a great experience, peter lynns are very easy to adapt to coming from bars and lines in my opinion, in fact they basically made me never want to use handles again

Don't forget the harness, you can't really fly them without one and it makes everything much nicer

Anyway the vortex was a bit of a random kite for peter lynn, and it's quite an old design now, 2006ish? Definitely shouldn't be sold for $700, its a nice one- just feels like a kind of toned down venom to me. You can pick up venom 2s complete $500ish and they are much easier to sell on afterwards than the vortex.

I think if it's completely new and includes a bar & lines that are completely new, it's not a bad price ... but not a great one - try and bargain them down, maybe?
Vortex's are still on the webpage :sniff:

Yep, definitely agree with Dom...way too much for a Vortex. Get the Venom 2 instead or check out the Snergy's or the Chargers when they become available...should be soon.

...as soon as the Chargers hit, I would imagine you will see a lot of Snergy's and other arcs for sale...should be a buyer's market at that point, and like Dom said, $500 with bar and lines for a Venom 2 should be about right, maybe even cheaper.

Good luck...they're great kites!

How many folks out there waiting for a 19m synergy???

I'll be watching the forums like a hawk for the next couple months...

At 10m that vortex won't be much use on the water until you get a steady 15 knots or so.

PLs are great but they do require more wind to get going than other kites, on the other hand they have great high wind range. If that's what you have for wind, great, otherwise go for a more normal depower foil instead of a twinskin foil.

Find out what your winds do locally year-round, if you don't already know.

You're in southern MN? You should have said something man! That's too much to pay for sure. Meet up with me sometime. You can demo any of the kites I have. I'm thinking about heading to Mille Lacs Sunday. Come up and fly some kites. See what you like in what size. There should be quite a few more ARC fliers in MN this year this winter. Lots to try out. The Mille Lacs Kite Xing is coming up as well and loads of kiters will be around. Come check out our site at mnadventure.com The dates are posted there. Try before you buy!

What is the story with the Vortex and Bomba? They seem to be the forgotten arcs of the bunch in the discussions. Guerilla, Phantom, Scorpion, Venom, Synergy and now Charger get all the attention on PKF.

Quote:

Originally posted by furbowski At 10m that vortex won't be much use on the water until you get a steady 15 knots or so.

Not even at 20 knots for me