IM always looking for new kites and good deals. I found one the other day (friday). Sent a message and asked for pics ect. I recieve the pics, looks good, so i send an email about payment. I get no responce back.
Monday rolls around and i send another email. Lunchtime comes i check and he emailed back "I have another buyer that contacted me last night to buy it, you responded first send me a pay pal if you want it." I emailed back asking for his paypal address. Not everyone uses the same email for paypal.
I check my email at the end of the day and he tells me he sold it. Let me tell you for some reason that really burned me up.
Im one that if i give my word i stick to it and expect the same from others. Most of the kiters ive met i would say hold to this also and seem to be a great bunch of people.

Business ethics would see that you were wronged. Every deal has an offer and either a counter or an acceptance. You two had a deal and he broke it.

Hmmmm.... definitely wrong, but...

A hundred things could have been happened on the other side of the computer, that you'll never know about.

The second buyer could have thrown money at the situation (i.e. 150% the price you two agreed on)... Second buyer could have been local, so no Paypal's fee. It could have been an inlaw that the seller didn't feel like hearing about why passed over a "relative" at every family gathering.

Are any of these valid reasons to snub your original offer? No (especially since it sounded fairly locked in).

Shady behaviour/questionable ethics in KiteWorld is thankfully relatively rare, but it doesn't require an undue amount of imagination to wrap your head around.

I find kite politics much harder to wrap my head around.... sometimes, anyway.

What were you on the hunt for, so we can all keep an eye out for you?

ATB,
Sam

Funny you mention Buisness ethics, seems he some big wig buisness man, on the board of directors and all. Probably rips off people for a living.
I was almost ripped off on a kite from the same area of the country about a year ago. I got it and it wasnt in the "near perfect" condition she said it was. I contacted paypal and opened a dispute, they did nothing about it. So onto the internet i went and turns out she was a doctor and her husband was the VP of some big company. After i started calling their places of buisness she finally refunded my money.
Why they felt they had to try and rip me off for a few hundred bucks when im sure they make 6 figures a year is beyond me.

To answer Sam, He sold it to someone that payed with paypal. And even if he did pay more i should have been offered to match it.

Id like to get my hands on a 16M caution answer. Theres a few others im looking at. I might also be interested in ozone or north rebel of the same size.

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Originally posted by indigo_wolf Hmmmm.... definitely wrong, but... A hundred things could have been happened on the other side of the computer, that you'll never know about. The second buyer could have thrown money at the situation (i.e. 150% the price you two agreed on)... Second buyer could have been local, so no Paypal's fee. It could have been an inlaw that the seller didn't feel like hearing about why passed over a "relative" at every family gathering. Are any of these valid reasons to snub your original offer? No (especially since it sounded fairly locked in). Shady behaviour/questionable ethics in KiteWorld is thankfully relatively rare, but it doesn't require an undue amount of imagination to wrap your head around. I find kite politics much harder to wrap my head around.... sometimes, anyway. What were you on the hunt for, so we can all keep an eye out for you? ATB, Sam

But even if those things happened on the other side of the comp a simple explanation and appology goes a long way.

It doesn't make it right cause they should have honored the deal they verbally committed to, but it helps the sting a little.

Like . . . . . Sorry man, my brother who originally said he didn't want it found some cash in jeans pocket and changed his mind. I know I am a total loser going back on my word, but I am gonna do it. I understand if you hate my guts - I deserve it. For what it's worth I am applogize.

It seems like it has something to do with the apparent seperation.

Face to Face is most intimate and hardest to break commitments too.

Over the phone is second followed by over internet. It just seems very seperated from reality.

I think that is why people feel more comfortable being open or completely lying on the internet. It makes it frustrating to do business, but that is part of the reality.

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Originally posted by soccerflyerLike . . . . . Sorry man, my brother who originally said he didn't want it found some cash in jeans pocket and changed his mind. I know I am a total loser going back on my word, but I am gonna do it. I understand if you hate my guts - I deserve it. For what it's worth I am applogize.

that does chap me.... especially if its a kite that i REALLY want.... i have been trying to deal with some people on kitecrowd, and have mostly abandoned that site, because of several experiences like yours...

i take comfort in the idea that someday the universe will dish it to them the way they dish it out to others... it never fails

Ditto. Foilzone was my bad experience - sounds like it was the same guy, and the same "kite I REALLY wanted". I'll just stick to buying from people and places I trust. You know the place.....PKF.

money sometimes makes people act in strange ways---what a shame

When I sold my Montana IV, activity was dry for weeks then 2 guys were interested. One guy had a trade offer that I was interested in, and another made several offers I wasn't willing to accept at the time. I was within $25 of a deal on the trade and buyer number 2 accepted my cash discount offer. I will sell to the guy that accepted my offer on the cash deal instead of the trade, but I informed my trade buyer of the circumstances and he understood. That is the way this stuff should be handled. Don't accept an offer you aren't willing to honor, don't make an offer you aren't willing to honor, and keep everyone informed.

What if you go through all the motions, make the deal, plan to meet this person only to find out you've wasting time AND money? I looked forward to the trip down to meet fellow riders but then having no communication with the person knowing full well that you're coming the last week seemed fishy. Yes things change, minds change, but MAN-UP and say so instead of stringing them along :duh::duh:

Now you have an expense that has occurred on your part and you still don't have the kite, thats where it becomes aggravating.

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Originally posted by kitejumper money sometimes makes people act in strange ways---what a shame

Truth!

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Originally posted by BeamerBob That is the way this stuff should be handled. Don't accept an offer you aren't willing to honor, don't make an offer you aren't willing to honor, and keep everyone informed.

Or you could look at it from a sellers point of view. I usually ask for half down on special orders, BUT THIS TIME I trusted two buggy friends and did not ask for anything down. Now I am sitting on two special orders of over $6000. Both say they will see what they can do. My point is, if you special order something then you are obligated to pay for your stuff. I will not name these buggiers but it would be great if they stand up and pay for what they ordered instead of leaving me with such losses.

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Originally posted by jellis Or you could look at it from a sellers point of view. I usually ask for half down on special orders, BUT THIS TIME I trusted two buggy friends and did not ask for anything down. Now I am sitting on two special orders of over $6000. Both say they will see what they can do. My point is, if you special order something then you are obligated to pay for your stuff. I will not name these buggiers but it would be great if they stand up and pay for what they ordered instead of leaving me with such losses.

Ya, that is the same principle but in reverse - PLUS it has MUCH more significant effects - out money vs. upset over bad deal !!!!

Hey snobdr,

Sorry, sounds like he was in the wrong. Oh well, there are plenty of other kites out there, and it's better to have the deal go wrong at the beginning, rather than after you had already sent $. It could have been much worse.

This kind of thing is why I use eBay. If your deal was on eBay, you could at least leave negative feedback that all other kiters would see. You also get some limited (very?) buyer protection on fraudsters.

Yes kiters are a "great bunch of people", they are also just like everyone else you meet. Sorry, but there's no magic transformation by flying a kite that turns idiots to great people to do business with. As they say in hockey, "keep your head up!".

ive had kite businesses that didnt call me back or email me after MANY REPEATED ATTEMPTS to contact them with cash in hand to buy their product--one guy i must have tried to contact nearly evry day for 3 wks and i never heard got a single response--so i figured , hey, this guy must not want my business and i spent my kite money elsewhere.......still puzzled as to why the guy never answered--thats bad business--and i had a few friends i could have referred to him--but no way after all that!!

Yeah me too KJ ...

What I reckoned happened is the other guy slipped the paypal to him before you did ... I've had that happen once or twice. Dirty tactics and bad form ...

Once you agree to buy it, he agrees to sell it to you and you agree on the price - the deal is done IMO