i have a question to the ski - experts here.
all ski today have that soft plastic bottom, that glides well on snow, but is very sensitive to scratches.
i have cheap snowblades from ebay, so i do not care that much about those deep scratches you get from frozen earth and stones if there is not enough snow on your snowkite spot.
but those mole-piles are especially bad. a few more, and i would have destroyed my snowblades in a single session.

my question: might it be possible to have instead of just steel - edges, a complete steel - bottom ? the snowblade might get heavier, but it will be (at a length of 75 cm) still much lighter than any other longer ski.

after a session, i could grind and sharpen the edges and polish the bottom. i could even imagine to run on pure sand on the beach or on a field with very thin or even no snow on it.

or would a steel bottom cause snow to stick and accumulate on the bottom?

How would you make and affix the steel bottom? If it were a reverse cap, you would have no real edges only a bent bottom to form a sidewall.

If you took the room temperature metal outside and stuck it directly on the snow, the snow would bind to it in an unfriendly manner - like a snow shovel brought out of the basement and immediately used - snow sticks right to it.

Teflon spray may help that but I don't know.

I'd say you'd be better off buying a cheap pair of beater skis and some P-Tex.

Find a local frozen lake - no issues with grindage...

@prairiewind:
if only i would have such dream conditions...
no frozen seas or lakes nearby , sadly.

@b-roc:
thanks, i will have a look at this p-tex stuff.

if i were a DIY guy, i would experiment self-bulding a steel bottom short ski / snowboard using plywood and thin steel plates. similiar the way kiteboards are build with rocker banks etc. with good glue i can think of gluing the steel to the preshaped plywood.

P-tex repairs are pretty easy ... or just keep buying used skis easier than making stuff

I pick up nice (very cheap) used old skis at a local thrift shop - keep them on pickle in the garage.

For repairs a Canadian company has nice tune up kits and repair kits,... www.kuu.com

I got a bunch of their stuff at Mountain Equipment Co-op - easy slick sticks of ptex for repairs.

There aren't any steel based skis that I've ever seen in the 19yrs I've been in the ski industry. Wood, then plastic then P-tex (a high molecularly dense plastic) but never steel.

The best thing I can suggest is base hardening your ski. We do this with our backcountry skis to reduce the likelyhood of damage like blown edges and cores shots.

Ski wax comes in different temperature ranges for different snow conditions. "Warm" wax is soft and has a low melting temp. You would use it in warmer temps and for spring skiing.

"Cold" wax is rock hard and has a high melting temp. Used for skiing in cold or extremely cold temps on hard snow and ice.

Most ski bases these days are "sintered" meaning they have a carbon sint inpregnated into the base. This sint absorbs hot melted wax when heated and slowly releases it over time when is use. If the base isn't sintered this trick won't work.

What we would do is stip the base of any contaminants (wax,dirt,etc,) then wax it with the coldest temp wax you can find. Something for sub zero high abrasive snow. Extreme cold.

Let the ski sit in a heated room or hot box for a couple of day so the sint can absorb as much as possible. The longer you let it soak in the better.

Now, let the ski cool completely and scrape and brush the hell out of it to get all the surface wax off the base and out of the structure (the tiny grooves in the base).

Your base is now hardend.

Now wax again with whatever wax you want/need to for the given conditions this is the wax you will glide on.

So what you now have is a ski base that has been inpregnated with an extremely hard wax which reinforces and hardens the P-tex that the base is made of.

It's not bullet proof but we've hit rocks and stumps and all kinds of stuff and it meant the difference between a coreshot or blown edge and just a scratch. I had a 12' drop into a chute right onto a rock ledge just under foot and came out with a pretty minor (but long) scratch. Would have been a core shot to a blown edge for sure.

Should work well on gopher holes.

The down side is your regular wax won't absorb as well as before. So it won't last as long.

But waxing is cheaper than new skis.

@all: thanks for this fruitful discussion.

i found this page using google, showing the history of ski. it shows that there was indeed a phase where ski had aluminium base. but it does not hold wax very well. thus, today whe have this plastic bottom with carbon fibers, that even absorbs wax, as feyd explains above.

http://www.skiinghistory.org/skishistory.html


still, i believe that there is a niche for a steel bottom ski. it would be heavy. but it would also be heavy duty. you would need to completely wax it every session.
but you would gain one massive steel edge, that you could sharpen also every session without a need to worry about wear and tear. how often can you sharpen your teel edge of a normal ski? 20 times? till it gets to thin?
i dont know, but maybe a 0.1 mm thin steel bottom layered onto some fiber glass structure even would provide "self-sharpening" ?

Quote:

Originally posted by herc . how often can you sharpen your steel edge of a normal ski? 20 times? till it gets to thin?

I don't know the exact answer but I can tell you, if done right, an awful lot of times. I have my skis professionally tuned once per year and then I retune them throughout the year as needed and once they get beyond a certain point, I do all the tuning on them.

The key to sharpening edges is more about maintaining the proper edge angle and deburring the edge then filing it down. I run a permanent staining marker down the edge before tuning and then I only file the edge enough to remove the ink and then I deburr and detune so the tips are less sharp then the edge under your foot.

If you are constantly changing your edge angle or into serious racing or ice runs maybe you'll burn an edge out but for the common and even avid skier, proper filing and deburring and detuning can build and maintain an edge for probably 10-15+ seasons / years.

Wait, Im confused are we talking bases or edges?

B-Roc is right, a well managed clean edge is critical to a ski's performance.

Edge bevel and surface conditions play a lot is how an edge lasts. I ususally run 3 deg side and 0 deg base and on a hard ice surface it will burn off in about 15-20 minutes of riding.

feyd, i was initally talking about a steel base. the question about steel edges was related to wear and tear. how long can you use your ski, if you burn your edges in a single speed session? i think you can only sharpen the edge about 50 times?
so if your base were completely out of steel, you could sharpen a more or less infinite number of times.

on a side note - i was yesterday waxing my badly worn snowblades with simple tealight wax and an flatiron. seems to work perfectly for my needs. and if i get too deep scratches i will try p-tex next time.

on german ebay, i found this very interesting skiboard / snowblade, completely made out of steel:

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150413...







i got email contact with the ebay seller, but he didnt (intentionally?) answered my question about the manufacturer. maybe he is an importer and wants to keep his business exclusive?

anyway, these ski look fantastic for my purpose: kiting on rough terrain with little snow, kiting on the beach on sand , kiting in mud etc...

at least this shows, that there are full metal "jacket" ski

maybe someone here knows who built these ski? i really like the idea of indestructible steel ski. you can sharpen your edges unlimited number of times.. you can also put wax on them .. only drawback might be that they might be quite heavy (another question he didnt answer - what is the weight)

Man the things you find on Ebay. I've never seen anything like it.

I'm pretty sure it's not made by any of the major ski manufaturers. But I will say it looks an aweful lot like something Volant would make.

They're big users of stainless steel for sheets.

If it is a full length ski the yes weight would be an issue. My guess is that they are comprised of 2 stamped sheets welded together. Lighter and more flexible.

Keep us up to date on this herc. I'm very curious now.

feyd, yes! that reminds me that my father has those volant steel ski ! those are heavy guys :o (but of course much longer)

i will keep you posted on any new informations regarding those steel skiboards.

today, i ordered my specially for kiting constructed steel ski!!

* straight edge so better edge grip on icy surfaces
* broader than usual snowblades : 15 cm width
* a bit longer: 65 cm long
* maybe a bit more rocker for the tip

it will be manufactured and shipped in around 2 weeks. i will then post photos and review.

From where/Who?!!!
I want to see them!

i bought them from this ebay-guy: http://myworld.ebay.de/andre1704/
who had that auction i mentioned in my post from 23.02.2010. (see above). i talked with that guy and he said that he plans an online shop for next winter, because this season is mostly over. but he agreed to make a custom pair of ski for me. now i am waiting for the delivery and will post pictures as soon as i get them. maybe next week..

i dont know if he speaks english, just give it a try...