Hi,

I was going to try out an ARC, a venom2 16 metre, its kite only deal for sale.

I fly North rebel kites, but i wanted to check out some snow. Im a 105kg, so my go to kite on water is a 14 metre most of the time, so my research suggest a 16metre ARC should give me some nice range.

What i struggle with is this Auto zenith, mainly the fact that im taught that i never wanting to leave my kite at zenith because of lofting.
I read and see you tube videos of people tying there kites to objects and wandering off, even seen videos of groups throwing the kite to one another and it just floats off to the catcher.

So does a ARC not have any loft at auto zenith?, is this the way people transition to and from the water [land]. can you just wander around with the kite drifting along even in a squall? Whats the bar setup for doing all this fully depowered i imagine?
when the wind gets up suddenly, is all this gust absorbing talk simply about allowing it to auto zenith and wait for the wind to fall?

I have also seen arcs sort of drift off to the side of the window, not truly straight above head, does this compromise the stability of the kite at rest?

Finally can i fly a venom on a long throw best bar and lines?, I cant see any reason why not?

thanks for any help

I can't tell you for certain one way or the other about the lofting because I don't think I've been around like some of the guys here have but as for the rest:

Autozenith - yes. I've stood around bs'ing, sat down to drink some water, unhooked & tied off to a dock and untwisted lines by removing them while the kite was in the air, laid down and watched the kite bob above me for a few minutes etc. All without so much as thinking about touching the bar. Bailed jumps, submarined myself in the water, got supercharged in the bug and scared myself....all of the above I just let go. The kite makes it's way back up and powers out.

My Guerilla for some reason likes creeping off to about 11 or 1 o'clock...I call it the semi-auto zenith.

Long throw bar - absolutely.

Welcome to the PKF!

As long as it's a 4-line bar, any of them should work ... assuming the line lengths are the same and the safety flags to one line. The old PL bars flag to a front line, the Zero7 bars to a rear and IIRC the new Navigator bar again flags to a front line ...? Might be wrong.
Long throw bars speed up the turning and are recommended, especially for bigger kites.

I think a lot of the relative safety of the auto-zenith on an arc is the 'jelly-fishing' it does as gusts come and go ... it's semi-rigid I guess so it adapts a lot more than the stiffer LEIs.

From my experience with big gusts, big arc and auto-zenith - if it's lifting you off the ground you're using too big a kite but to get totally yanked you'd have to be out in a bloody hurricane or something

My Venom will autozenith pretty well. It does drift a little but not much. I've never left it tied to a post or anything!

What sort of windspeeds are you riding? My 13m is underpowered in less than 20mph and I only weigh 70kg. A 16m would be right for me in 12 - 20mph.

At 105kg I would say you might need a 19m to get powered up in average winds. The new Charger is supposed to have better low end.

I've never felt in danger of being lofted. My 14m X3 will try and loft me if I leave it at the top of the window in gusty coditions but I only tend to fly it in 10 - 12 mph so its only if the wind picks up while i'm on the water.

I don't have a lot of time on LEI's so don't know the direct comparison in terms of trim, but I can keep the lift on my ARC dialed way down overhead. I Drive a buggy so I do not want a lot of lift. If I get a gust that feels like too much, I let go and let the kite settle down and rise overhead. My trim strap stays in a lot. Your long throw bar will be quite fine.

Newer arcs have a lot of depower and we ( I ) tend not to go too far overpowered on land. I haven't ever been hit with anything yet ?

It is still IMPORTANT that an arc is kept low when flying with Lei . It is the proper way to go .

I got lofted (just two or three feet) by my 16m Scorpion while it was sitting at zenith, but that is one of the liftier arcs. After I pulled the trim strap in a bit I was fine. The way that they deform when hit by a gust really reduces their ability to loft you while they're sitting at zenith.

On the newer arcs, as they amp the performance, I've noticed that the auto zenith is sort of more off to the side. Either that or my bars are off, which could be. But when I wipe out and let go of the bar, my kites tend to opt to hover at one side versus right above my head like my Bomba does. If you steer it to zenith it'll sit there, but while riding, it opts to hang out on the side, which is nice. It'll creep slowly back to the top, but it's not an instant back to zenith effect. No need to fear it. It's a great feature!

auto zenith has saved my tail once... flying my 15m phantom, got blown downwind, winds were gusting to 25mph, and i had a treacherous exit from the water.... i let the trimstrap all the way out, and was able to use my hands confisently to get out of my situation....

the kite can move around a bit when you ignore it, but i think thats more a function of line stretch, or something else... not the kite, the other equipment...

arcs are great kites, imo, and i prob will never buy an lei... maybe a flysurfer, if the price is right...

btw, i fly my 12m phantom on a best bar, works fine.... i like the best bar better than my pl bar, but its too small to effectively fly my other 2 arcs

the auto zenith is a great feature. makes simple handling in idle position. if you are concerned about lofting trim it back BUT you have to pay more attention to a to depowered kite , the controls become very muted and sloppy.

low and to the the edge of the window is a good spot for idling any kite esp. c-kites/bows.

an arc lofting will be in very gusty conditions like 10-30mph. sizing is difficult ( size for the gusts is the general rule) . the saving grace of arc in a lofting is that its easy to fly it out and land it . just don't panic, the feedback through the bar tells exactly what the kite is doing. static jump practice develops reflexes that help you understand kite/bar and body behavior.
attempting to fly in ultra gusty air is brutal esp. with gear you have not mastered.

the auto zenith thing is a "neat" feature that is only a TENDENCY but should not be expected to make up for lack of good kite control.