Hi, am a beginner in kiteboarding, but would hope to be able to progress on to unhooked and wakestyle soon.

I'm going to be purchasing my gear soon, for these conditions:

-sub 10 knots average on low wind days
-75 kg

I'm getting myself either a 15m or 19m Flysurfer Speed3 Deluxe, due to the light winds we have.

Now I'm at a point where I have to decide to get a 2009 Flyradical L or a 2009 HT-RIP 139.

Based on the above, what is best?
-sub 10 knots
-FS Speed3 Deluxe 15m/19m
-wakestyle enthusiast

I've read somewhere that the HT-RIP is "way lighter" but has a more skatey feel. Way lighter sounds good to me but I have no idea what it means by feeling skatey.

Please help me out guys, thanks!

hi

I dont know much about wakestyle as I am not into that, but from what I think (and I may be wrong) wakestyle and light wind may not work well together especially under 10 knots

The under 10 knots average scares me because yes the Flysurfer speed3 is the kite for, BUT you might be limited to freeride and may be old school tricks within this range.

When I see wakestyle riders, they tend to ride lower aspect kites that sit further into the powerzone such as Liquid Force havoc, Slingshot RPM, delta shape, stuff like this. And they seem to have fun above the 15knots.

Riding unhooked under 10 knots, not sure (but never tried)

On the other hand, you mention that you are beginner. Even if the Speed3 is the perfect kite for light wind, this is a VERY HIGH aspect ratio kite and requires finesse to fly, thus takes some practice because you'll end up with lots of bow ties, loose the kite at the edge, lulls, etc.. and you will hate this kite if you don't have the practice yet. All depends how beginner you are.

You wont hurt yourself flying a 19m under 10 knots, but it's not the best kite to progress in the first place.

my 2 cents, but I may be totally wrong because YES I fly Speed2 19m under 10 knots but I dont practice unhooked and wakestyle. I just have the impression it might be difficult to achieve.

should wait for PBK comment as well. I am sure he has a valuable opinion here.

As far as the board, the term 'skatey' can be subjective.. It can mean that the board is slippery and lets you switch heel to toe easily, or that it pops easily off the water.

I searched for your board and found this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM10KUA5Dqg

And since the fins are big, the bottom of the board is channeled, and the tips are flexible, I think skatey in this situation means it has lots of pop.

Personally, when I think of skatey, I think of Andre Philip's style in parts of this video:
http://vimeo.com/8248646
Particularly when he's just switching around on the water.

I think either way you're going to end up with a very nice board

I'm hesitant to recommend a 19m to you as you're currently a beginner, but honestly in those winds, you're going to end up wanting the power it provides after you've progressed into the intermediate stage.

My advice to you is to take lessons first and really learn how to fly the kite.

hi guys, thanks for the replies.

i've been doing an endless amount of hours reading (i should be FLYING not bleeding my eyes out again lol)..

found out that the term wakestyle is defined as flying the kite really low and doing unhooked tricks. Perhaps mimicking a towboat's angle.

The "fly it low" part isnt too incredibly important to me, is nice but, just as long as I get to do unhooked stuff... perhaps something more reminiscent of cable boarding. So... unhooked freestyle?

Anyways, I don't hope to digress into "which kite" discussion at this section since rules say this is not the right forum section, so let's stick with boards.

Let's say I have chosen a PROPER and capable light wind machine for 8 - 12 knots (it actually got up to 12 knots today here).

Which board is best for light wind, unhooked freestyle or even light wind wakestyle? I've narrowed it down to these boards:
- Flyradical L (the shop'll sell me cheaper if I got whole kit from him. It looks KILLER anyways I love it)
- Nobile XTR 2010 (mentions light wind and unhooked in its product brief)
- Liquid Force WLF LTD (mentions light wind and unhooked in its product brief)
- Litewave Spirit (passing mention of light wind. looks great!)
- Spleene HT-RIP 39 (just because someone reviewed this against the Flyradical and said it might be better)

thanks for the input, please help a clueless fella out

Call it fun in Sub 10knots... Just being able to get out there with somepower is fun otherwise only be able to go back and forth without the 19m and it's power.

Far away but I'm doing some unhooked back roll kite loops here on the Spee3 19m. One thing good is the water is usually flatter and it make landing tricks easier to learn.

What it does is give you some power back you'd have if it were windier with a smaller kite.

Makes for a Fun day... No one else can even stay upwind.
Keep me updated... I have these in Stock 15m 19m DE... and
happy to give tips... Have a Demo 19m for a bit less too if you don't need new...

Especially what not to do... I've been on it
in supper light stuff and even high end when guys 30 lbsheavier are overpower on their 17m SLE's

This is a lighter one... I'm ready for another good summer.
3 were bad without it... 2 great ones.. This was a light one
but fun.

A Flyradical L no smaller 139x43 would be good to carve with and flat
enough to get you back up... for a regular non squared off board, I wouldn't get a board with much rocker for sub 10... (Slow)



Something to practice on a 19m and Flydoor 163:




You Can Sebastian doing some handle passes here:
Might be the 15m but more wind...

http://vimeo.com/6679053

Hi PBKiteboarding and burrito, simply put, you're saying go 19m dlx?

I just worry that the 19m is too horrible for things like kiteloops or turning or what have yous. Look, I'm a complete newbie anyways.

But yes, if people can manage gg in winds up to 60 knots, I'm sure I can *learn* to handle a 19m dlx in sub 20 knots cuz my area never gets that high I'm pretty sure, and I imagine I would want to have more power once I have progressed.

If you never kited upwind before?

The 19m is not for a complete newbie that can't stay upwind well... Still a very powerful kite,,,
There is a good skill needed... Knowledge.

15-20knts on a 19m is too much even for a beginner who has
just learned to go upwind I'd say.

Safer on a smaller kite and enough power any ways..
I saw Sub 10... first Post...

It usually takes a lots of kiting for guys to learn handle passes on any kite...

A 19m is going to have a very slow turning rate but get you riding when a 15m won't. However the top end of the 19 will be far less than the 15. This goes without saying, but having a 2 kite quiver would let you safely get on the water more often rather than relying on one big kite all the time.

Ask the shop to let you demo all of the gear in question if possible. Also see if they will let you apply your lesson money toward the purchase of the kite and not vice versa . Buying a kite you're unfamiliar with THEN getting the lesson is a bad idea because then you're locked into that kite and will most likely take a depreciation hit when trying to sell it back or to a 3rd party.

You going the wakestyle route does make sense given the wind conditions you describe in your area. Wake style is more about keeping the kite low and in one spot and popping off the water to pull your tricks rather than sending the kite for lift then tricking. The size of these kites (and thus lower turning speed) will help keep them steady in one position for the duration of your trick. Throwing kiteloops in the mix would be awesome but these kites are going to take a LONG TIME to loop if they loop at all before you hit the water.

If someone can post a vid of someone looping a 15m or 19m, that would be interesting to see (I currently can't view the videos posted by PBKiteboarding, btw).

Another light wind kite to look into is the new Ozone Zephyr. It's supposed to have a good turning speed for its size. (this is NOT an LEI pimping suggestion, it's just another light wind-specific kite available on the market)

Btw, it sounds like you have some wakeboarding/cablepark experience.. is that right?

I've looped the 15m S3 Deluxe on land while on a snowboard, and in the buggy. Never looped it mid-jump though. Dont feel comfortable trying that. Having said that, the 15m does turn pretty quick for something its size...

Thanks for the input guys,

yes i have some wake and cable experience, not as much as i'd wanna have though

it's true, the first kite i ever really wanted since i started my research a couple weeks ago was the Ozone Zephyr, but found that on the ground erviews seem to point that it was still not near as good as these bentley-priced FSes.

Then I went to the local beach and saw a Wainman Boss 12m and a Carved ??m perform well (fast turns and loops, good air and fast upwind). I was pretty sold cuz the Boss looks KILLER until I went back home and discovered that we got lucky and winds hit 15 knots. So I decided, Wainman Big Momma 15m.

It's brand new and doesn't even have an accompanying wind chart, or any reviews around, so for insurance' sake, I decided, FSes. Well, I was ready to spend up to USD$30,000 in cash for my next choice of sports (had 4x4, enduro, wakeboarding and more in my to-try list) anyway, so USD$3000 doesn't *really* look too bad, but it still hurts when you remember that u can get other kites (LEIs) for like USD$700 lol.. We're not all Richard Bransons right?

The shop has offered me to put in a deposit first and let me learn and decide at the end of my lessons if I want a 15 or a 19. He's currently recommending a 15m Standard, but I've always had this apprehension when a shopkeep pimps his products lol.. maybe he's just hoping i'd get an additional 19m once I progress, so in a sense, I'd rather already be owning one from the start, however tough it might seem at first.

But who knows, maybe he does mean well in the first place after all.

I'm probably gonna go this route: get the package from him, which is a FS S3-15-D and a Flyradical-L, immediately post up a FOR SALE BRAND NEW Flyradical-L, complete my lessons, receive my board, not use it and sell it at a discount, and get me the Nobile XTR hehe.

Anyone want a brand new one at a cheaper than brand new price? I probably can get an S, M OR L! Or even the doors! You pay for shipping though

You guys think it'll be easy to sell this board?

Hi , what is the main diferent Between Flysurfer Speed3 Deluxe and Standard ? the bar is the same , color is diferent , the weight of the material it is diferent ?? is there another diferent ?

Can you notice any diferent between these 2 kites , in a 10-12 MPH wind ? with 73kg ?

looks like KZK posted the same question on the other forum (KF). the Singapore flysurfer importer is taking care of him very well.

see the answer

my vote goes for a normal S3 15m so he can afford 2 board with the price difference with the 19m deluxe

IMO a smaller kite with a DOOR and a smaller Flyradical makes more sense

Quote:

Hi guys, Thanks for all the infomation on the Speed 3 15m and 19m. I am in fact the distributor for Flysurfer in Singapore. KS Kaizen had infact e-mailed me regarding his choice between a Speed 3 15m and Speed 3 19m both in deluxe versions. I recommended him the Speed 3 15m in normal version with a fly radical L. I advised him that the Speed 3 19m would be too dedicated a light wind kite for his weight of 75KG. Even with the Speed 315m, he will often find himself kiting alone because every one else had packed up and gone home due to insufficent wind. Hi KS Kaizen, Its great that you do alot of research on the before making your decision. Researching before getting into a new sport is definately part of the fun especially in choice of equipment. Mike YQM - "Flying in extreme light winds is a toss up of positives and negatives" How true, how true. Definately one of the good things about being able to kite in light winds is that you get a lot of practice and can progress faster especially in our weak equatorial winds. I myself (55KG) first learnt to kite with a 16m C kite. i definately got a lot of practice :o ! "*Some* big kites in the 14m+ range handle like tanks". How true again. The Speed 3 does turn quite decently for a big kite though, especially when it's equivalent to a 17m tube. Also you have to depower (push out the bar) when you turn it and you will find the Speed 3 does turn quite fast. Also making sure the power adjuster is depowered to the minumum that you need helps makes the kite more nimble and faster. Wind finder - The past weather on wind finder is actually an archive from past forcast and not a record of past observations. Even the actual wind record from a weather station is the average for the hour. so a 10 kt reading could have several or many gusts up to 13 to 15kts for 30 seconds to a minute. The wind finder archives also do not record the first gusts before a tropical storm that last typical 15 to 30minutes and easily reach 20 to 25kts. Weather in Miri - I am not sure what the weather in Miri is like. However I suspect that they get even less wind than in singapore. (Sabah close to Sarawak is called Land beneath the wind - hmmmm ... I wonder why?) Probably because the the NE monsoon does often turn away from Borneo. Just my speculation. Demo kites - we have a Speed 3 15m demo, as well as a Speed 3 12m and a 10m, and 12m Pulse. However KS Kaizen's concern is that because he is a beginner, he will not be able to appreciate the qualtites and capabilities of the kite he is trying. Gbleck - "You might be large enough to go for the 19m at your weight but the 15m will be more fun and more versitile." My thoughts exactly. As your first kite, I think having more fun is important than the absolute lowest range that you can get. If you look at the charts that you have found, the speed 3 15m does not lose out much in the lowest range compared to the Speed 3 19m. CG Glazier - " I always use my Spleene Session 141 board in these conditions. If you invest in a 19m speed 3, be sure to get a good light wind board too." I also offered him the Flyradical L (139 x 43cm). While it is not a small board, it's definately not a "DOOR" type board. And if you read his post, he also wants to progress into some freestyle and wake style. This board will get him going into 10 kts and not hold him back too much when the wind picks up and he can learn all the basic jumps and rotations. Spleen session VS Fly Radical - he also mentioned that some people have commented that the Spleen Session is slightly better than the Fly Radical. I have not ridden the Spleen Session but I must say that it would take a very experienced rider to actually discern the difference between two good boards. Also the conditions that the boards were compared to make must be taken into account. I find the Fly Radicals longer outline with flex tips really good in our short hard chop. Most of the short wide boards made for radical free style are not really suitable for our sea state especially in SW monsoon where the chop is even more. Also there are quite a few boards that are totally rubbish! (too stiff, too bouncy, foot pads too slippery etc.. ) Fly Radical 2009 VS Fly Radical 2010 I am sure that the 2010 version is better. Flysurfer does always makes sure that the later models are an improvement over the out going models. (Why else are they coming out with the 2010 model in March 2010!! :!: .....hmmm some kite companies have already sorted out their 2011 gear!!) But as I said earlier, it would take a very experienced kiter to be able to tell the difference between two good boards. Walk of shame - Many kiters are really kids at heart. Wind or no wind, many will just go out for a ride even when the winds are light. However most of those that you say were doing the walk of shame also are (or will become) the most efficent kiters in light winds. Only by kiting in very light winds will you learn to extract every little bit of performance from your kite. This is true also for wind surfing and other wind dependent sports. S19 depowered - For most kites when you de-power too much, the steering lines become very slack and the kite becomes very un-responsive. However this is not so for the Speed 3 - all models. The kite AOA will be very small but it is still controllable. But as a beginner, please do not think that you can take a Speed 3 19 m and go kiting in 20kts or even a Speed 3 15m. Speed 3-15m normal Vs Speed 3-15 Deluxe Vs Speed 3-19m Deluxe KS Kaizen, I do have all the above kites in stock. Yet i recommended you the cheapest one of the three. Because you did mention in an early e-mail about your concern that you may not like the kiting in the long run. I would really like to sell you the more expensive deluxe versions (more profit) but I assure you that the Speed 3 15m normal version is a BLOODY GOOD KITE already. Words from a tube kiters mouth after an hour demo "This is the best kite I have ever flown!" Are kite loops fun? my dear friend, kite loops and humongous jumps with loooong hangtime is the stuff we all dream about! But kiting is a lot more than that. Its alot of different things to different people. Many just cruise and throw a trick or two. Ride some small waves. Its all fun. Summary Get a Speed 3 15m normal version is good enough. A Flydoor Radical L. If you get the whole set up from me, I'll give you free instruction until you can kite safely. When you are ready, I'll teach you how to jump and later on loop the kite.

thanks for the tip ! in singapore FS

i m looking more for a 12mtrs ... and 10-15knots , is going to be the only kite maybe...
what of these 2 kites is more powerfull with the same wind weight conditions and what kite is easy to fly ? what kite would you recomend to somebody that is an intermedium but want to go to the water first time but have Experience with kitelandboarding and De-powers kites ?


FS Speed3 12
PL Charge 12
FS Pulse 12

hi chicago, the deluxe versions of the speed3 are 50% lighter than the standard ones, and more expensive. lighter means it can turn slightly faster and it also supposed to be able to float better in lulls and dropped winds,so that u dont crash the kite and have to relaunch, or more stability when youre doing tricks,if any lines were to slack during your jumps.

people seem to be recommending the 15m for 8-15 knots, i read that the 12m are not enough for those winds.

hi denis, thanks for the helpful input and tracking, ure a very helpful person, its nice to know people like you!

Quote:

Originally posted by ks.kaizen hi denis, thanks for the helpful input and tracking, ure a very helpful person, its nice to know people like you!

Hi KSK

From the reply from your importer, I think you're in good hand. He seems to know his stuff. And he will give you some lessons on top of that. That is a BIG +.

It's always better to have local support and you're luck to get some.

Safe learning with that kite. Not the easiest one to learn on, but feasible considering you can not afford many kites.

keep us informed of your progression in 1 month or 2. share your learning, it can be useful to others in the future.

Dont give up because of a bow tie, it will happen once or twice, it's a very high aspect kite

Try to go out in moderate (but enough) winds the first times. Too much light wind, or too much wind might be more difficult.

It's always easy to learn with a kite in its sweet spot ie not under not over powered.

my 2 cents