f0rgiv3n
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HQ Neo.... Modified Arc?
So.... I got to thinkin...(yeah, i know... NOT good.) while looking at the neo and some pics it kinda seemed to me like arcs and the neo have very
similar characteristics. Both are technically "twin skin", have a zipper for fast inflation, have "closed cell" inflation valves on the top. The shape
of the neo is pretty similar too, just not as much of an "arc" as the "arcs" rofl... Am I way off? They just seem to use the same sort of wind
technology but are just a bit tweaked to be different
Kites:PL Hornet 2.0m, 15m Synergy
Dakine Pyro Harness
Rides: MBS Comp 16 Pro, Sector9 Longboard, Forum Snowboard
And always a helmet
My Kiting Blog
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awindofchange
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A better comparison would be the Neo to that of the Flysurfers. Those two kites look nearly identical in shape and design. The overall shape of the
ARC's to the NEO's is quite different with the ARC's having more of a "C" shape design and the NEO's being much flatter. Also, the NEO"s are a fully
bridled foil, using the ribs and bridles to support the wings shape. The ARC's use internal pressure and panel design to form their shape with no
bridling at all (except the VPC on the wing tips of the newer models). As far as the other features (intake vents, twinskin, zippers...., yea, they
are quite similar.
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Maven454
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The Neo isn't nearly as arc shaped, has a bridle, and is primarily intended to inflate through the vents not being prefilled. You'd be more accurate
to compare it (design wise) to the Flysurfers (except the Outlaw).
"I gave up on wind speeds... its either crappy, gravy, epic, or stupid... in that order"
--Drewculous
Ozone: Imp III Quattro 1m and 1.5m, Flow 2m, 3m, 4m, and 5m.
NAPKA# US454
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f0rgiv3n
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ok i gotcha :D . Thanks for the info. I haven't even seen one in person so I didn't know how flat they were and good point about them using bridles to
support the shape where the arcs use internal pressure. Very interesting.
Kites:PL Hornet 2.0m, 15m Synergy
Dakine Pyro Harness
Rides: MBS Comp 16 Pro, Sector9 Longboard, Forum Snowboard
And always a helmet
My Kiting Blog
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lad
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Our friends at HQ are not exactly known for, um,
"from scratch innovation."* 
Sometimes not even disguising the names! (Ozone's stable beginners depower = Access, HQ's = Apex)
At least they didn't name the Neo "SlySurfer" or something like that.
*Not that I would mind having a Neo II or Montana IV for myself - quite the opposite...  |
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markite
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don't give jonesband (glileshop) any ideas
Mark Groshens NAPKA KC 13
WindSpeed kites & design - Canada
Peter Lynn Arcs: Charger2 22.5 +18 + 15 + 6.5, Charger I 6, Scorpion 16 + 10, Phantom II 12 + 9, Orig Phantom 9 + 6, Synergy 10 + 8, F 1200, S 840
Ocean Rodeo: Flite 17 + 12, Rise 13 + 10 + 7, Razor 9 + 6
Foils: PL Leopards and Lynx, Airea Raptors, some PL Reactor IIs + IIIs, Libre Spirits, Cross Kite Sonics, Ozone Flow
Peter Lynn Kite Cat for cruising the lakes
buggies: PL XR+, Cameleon Pagona, custom bigfoot, PL Bigfoot, custom ice buggy
Boards: 2 custom directionals, O.R Surf series 6-3 and 5-11, Mako Duke, Mako Skinny, Mako 140 Wide, Mako 150 Wide, Mako King, Brunotti
lots of old school skis, snowboard
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PHREERIDER
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they do have similar parts. but truly unique design .
neo is in FS class technology, bridle closed cell with variable AOA (AS AWOC noted)
FS has the jet flap thing. i really haven't put much thought into that, but somebody did!
the arc has very unique design cell shape , the concave LE and shoulder webbing truly one a kind . the depower- like flying characteristics is
really more pressure/ shape related than variable AOA approach. really incredible design, gadget free and super simple. though the newer arcs
appear to have more AOA in the mix but still all arc.
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herc
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i always wonder how arcs are able to keep their profile shape with no supporting bridles. i mean - bridled foils usually have a, b,c and d line groups
that support the profile.
but arcs have only a,b and c support through the internal straps/webbing. how can this be enough to support a lower aspect ratio arc? why doesnt the
profile collapse if the bar is pulled in hard ? just because of the internal pressure ? or is there something special about the ribs forming the
profile?
@PHREERIDER: very interesting that the depower comes more from profile deformation than from AoA changes !
Kites:
Tubes: Ozone Zephyr 17 * Naish Helix 2009 10.5 qm * Cabrinha Access 2003 9qm * Wipika Hydro 2001 9qm *
Arcs: PL Scorpion 13, 16 qm; PL Synergy 10 qm
open cell: PL Twister I 7.7 * PKD Buster II 3qm
Paragliders: Gradient Bright Classic (with check) * Swing Mistral 1 (groundhandling) *Advance Alpha 3 (groundhandling)
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PHREERIDER
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load rate dispersion and cycle fatigue of the materials has to be weighed in, but for the human scale it is like polymer wings.
a true polyamide high.
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herc
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maybe this might be the reason there is no ultra light "deluxe" version of arc kites ! because the stress on the cloth would be too high ?
Kites:
Tubes: Ozone Zephyr 17 * Naish Helix 2009 10.5 qm * Cabrinha Access 2003 9qm * Wipika Hydro 2001 9qm *
Arcs: PL Scorpion 13, 16 qm; PL Synergy 10 qm
open cell: PL Twister I 7.7 * PKD Buster II 3qm
Paragliders: Gradient Bright Classic (with check) * Swing Mistral 1 (groundhandling) *Advance Alpha 3 (groundhandling)
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Kamikuza
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| Quote: | Originally posted by herc
i always wonder how arcs are able to keep their profile shape with no supporting bridles. i mean - bridled foils usually have a, b,c and d line groups
that support the profile.
but arcs have only a,b and c support through the internal straps/webbing. how can this be enough to support a lower aspect ratio arc? why doesnt the
profile collapse if the bar is pulled in hard ? just because of the internal pressure ? or is there something special about the ribs forming the
profile? |
My impression of bridles is that they're not used to maintain profile shape, as much as they're used to spread load and maintain a stable AoA across
the chord (?) of the airfoil. Without the B, C etc bridle lines the kite would try to fly with as little AoA into the wind and we'd get no pull - like
a sail on a boat allowed to flap around, unsheeted.
I don't imagine there needs to be much of a pressure difference inside and outside an arc for it to maintain profile shape - after all, it's just a
giant sail on the end of strings ... a little pressure to maintain the shape will stop it trying to fold in half lengthwise ...
But I'm just guessing ;-)
Yeah... I got a kite. Or two...
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PHREERIDER
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KK is right on with the load on the bridle but would be the span i believe. the chord i believe is forward stability and wing balance front to back
perpendicular to the span
the top skin high negative pressure on either is the additive shaping element along with internal pressure. materials are well matched for stress
and load. but if you have ever slammed one LE down full speed threshold limits will be apparent with seam rupture . the stitching cuts the nylon
like a knife @ the cell wall skin union.
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