I was considering getting a beamer as first kite /trainer but after seeing some threads here was wondering if I could just buy a LEI instead. Definitely want to be using depower when I get a buggy and maybe eventually kitesurf. I figured I could save money and get used to type of kite and depower system I expect to be usung ultimately, wether I go to the water or stick to land. Saw some LEI's on e-bay for good price in the 5-7M range. At risk of starting a big argument here I'm going to ask if that would be approx. the equivalent of a 3m beamer. I know I'm comparing apples to oranges, but just need to know if it would be to small or just enough to learn basics in light winds 8-12 or is that too light for a 5-7M kite ? I'm leery of getting too big of a kite while learning. I don't want to always have to wait for high winds to practice would 10-15 be acceptable for that size kite ? Plan to eventually use it as my high wind kite. All advice appreciated. Hope I'm not starting another Foil vs. LEI war. can't we all just get along ? LOL...

Thanks,Ernie

The issue that you're going to run into is that the small LEI are really designed to be used in much higher winds than you should be learning in and won't behave well in lower winds, whereas a small fixed bridle foil will fly in the lighter winds and behave normally.

nooooooooooooooooooooo thats one of the worst things you could do, start on a fixed bridle kite with open cells, a land kite that you fly with handles, lei are super advanced and very dangerous in the wrong hands.

before you jump into a sport ... maybe test the water first.

if you plan on staying only the water, get yourself a Trainer Foil, they are cheap and will teach you the Wind Window. from there you'll grow.

i started on a 3m land kite and it was enough to get me addicted, it became my high wind kite eventually.

What they said. Get a small trainer foil to start. And in fact, bbrex has some well priced stuff in the for sale forum that would be a great start!

Like everybody is saying get a 3m fixed bridle to feel the window and power. It will fly early and generate lots of power as the wind picks up.
As mentioned a small depower requires winds that are too high to figure things out in. It can be frustrating.
If you buy a good used name brand 3m you can always re-sell it at very little or no loss. Odds are ( if you get a good one for the job ) you will keep it as a high wind buggy engine + tool for introducing your friends to the sport.

When you move up to an LEI buy a used one 05 or newer for your 1st kite. You will be hard on it even after learning to fly well with the 3m. Pre 05 lei kites are a bit less safe / friendly.

I think you'd find the LEI you're looking at to be a pretty specialized tool ...
Get a $100 or less "trainer" kite and learn to fly ...

There's nothing here to spark a foil vs LEI war but if you're really into LEIs, you can get LEI trainers in the < 3m range ... Naish for sure do one that I've seen sitting on my buddy's stores floor - no idea of the line/bar requirements for it though ...

I started with an lei kite, It nearly killed me, torn rotator, sprained ankle and about 3 square feet of road rash. Start with a 3m on handles, much safer and still alot of fun. These kites are crazy powerful, don't be a rag doll like this guy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO8iLwQ5Kew

First of all your gonna need about a 9M (like me) to start with. Anything else you won't be able to fly unless in nuking winds and that isn't any fun for season intermediate flyers let alone a noob.

AND a 9M is a LOT of kite to handle as a beginner. It can REALLY hurt you if you aren't VERY careful. I have been flying smaller fb's for a couple years now. I just got my first LEI this past summer and I am still scared of it. I won't take it out in high winds (winds it excels in) yet. The first time I went out in the guy I bought it from helped me launch it and showed me how to use it. The first time I took my 3M fb out I figured it out by myself and wasn't in over my head. They are easy and fun to learn on - and most likely you'll hang on to it for fly sometimes down the road when you don't want to take the time to blow up your LEI or have a friend who wants to try it out.

If you have someone to show you how to do it. And don't go out without them the first several times it might work to start on a LEI, but you may get frustrated or hurt. So yes, you could do it. But do you have someone to show you how? If not then I would say definately not. LEI is not something you can just pick up watch a vid and go out and get a hang of. Smaller fb is.

That's my .02 worth. Trust me we all wish we could jump straight to our magical one kite quiver and be done, but reality hits soon and you learn to accept that its gonna take more time money kites and experience than that. It is just the reality of the sport. It is kiting, but it's not just kiting!!!

Since you are definitely looking at getting into depower, you could also start with one of the fixed-bridle on a bar trainers sold by Slingshot. Real (www.realkiteboarding.com) quite commonly has these on sale for decent prices. These are good small kites to teach you about flying a kite on bar. I personally prefer fixed-bridle on handles, rather than on a bar, but it is still a safe place to start.

LEI kites can be very dangerous in the wrong hands for the simple reason that when they crash, they dont lose their shape. The wind can catch a wingtip, and start dragging you, even though its "on the ground". If you know, and understand, the safety systems, they can be pretty safe kites. You just have to know how they work, which isnt always intuitive.

For learning purposes, I would recommend the small fixed-bridle kite, whether on a bar, or on handles as these are generally easier to use, and a hair safer to use. If you have the ability to take lessons from a good instructor with LEIs, then go that route. Just make sure its a good quality lesson that covers all aspects of the kite, safeties, and proper usage of such. This will cost you some money, but in the long run, you will be much better off with the knowledge...

Hope this helps.

Quote:

Originally posted by ragden Since you are definitely looking at getting into depower, you could also start with one of the fixed-bridle on a bar trainers sold by Slingshot. Real (www.real.com) quite commonly has these on sale for decent prices. These are good small kites to teach you about flying a kite on bar.

I'm thinking you meant Real Kiteboarding

Quote:

Originally posted by Maven454 Quote: Originally posted by ragden Since you are definitely looking at getting into depower, you could also start with one of the fixed-bridle on a bar trainers sold by Slingshot. Real (www.real.com) quite commonly has these on sale for decent prices. These are good small kites to teach you about flying a kite on bar. I'm thinking you meant Real Kiteboarding

Already corrected the link. Thanks.

Hi Ernie; Welcome.
I hope by now you got the message loud and clear. Notice that you did not start an LEI war (your concern is thoughtful and it's clear you've been reading), but instead you have pretty much UNITED everyone in a group effort to keep you safe.

One thing not mentioned yet is using the LEI on land with the buggy. Sure you can do it (once you have learned to fly it safely), and many have, but they are less favored on dry land by most riders since they are more susceptible to puncture damage. As a novice, sooner or later you are going to slam your kite into the ground. This is OK for an LEI on water or fluffy snow, but hit a rock or stick on the ground and POW! You have instantly disabled the kite with punctured bladder, torn fabric and face a serious repair.

There are a few kites suitable for "Cross-over" work (land, water snow)...
HQ Neo II, 11m is a good compromise
Peter Lynn ARC/ Twinskin, in around 15m size
Flysurfer (more expensive) maybe around 10m

These all inflate between the upper an lower skins with lower pressure - like a big soft air mattress - and can even tolerate small rips without being disabled.

...But these are all a giant leap in required skills and risk levels, so take the advice here and start with a great trainer like a HQ Rush Pro, Hdyra (both on a bar). For something with handles (great for the buggy) consider the Peter Lynn Hornet or HQ Beamer, Flexifoil Sting, etc.

All the best and good luck

Thanks all for the unanimous advice ! It's pretty much what I was expecting and greatly appreciated. I should of mentined that I have flown a very small trainer a few times, but that certainly is no prep. for moving on to a "real" kite I realize. As mentined I shouldn't be practicing in nuking winds which is what a small LEI requires so I'll most likely go the small fb route . Once again thanks to everyone who took the time to help out a newbie looking for answers .

thats what we are here for ernie.

just a few suggestions for your first REAL POWER kite

3m ozone flow
hq beamer 3m
peter lynn hornet 3m

if you havent got much money then you can always go for a Pansh legend 3m

Go for the Ozone Flow. They're sweet kites :D.

Good to here you are looking in to a 3m.
Now you have a few choices.

Handles or a bar ? A bar is most simple to learn on and allows you to get used to flying on a bar, one handed flying etc.. Handles offer more independant control of the back brake lines. Learning how applying brake to each side effects the kite is real handy . That is how your depower will work . Either way get a harness and get used to hooking in over time.

$ or $$$ ? You can buy an acceptable used 3m for about $100 even less? If you think you want to keep the 3m as a buggy engine I suggest you throw in a bit more coin and buy a quality kite even if you are in the used market.

i've skimmed through the responses and agree with 3m FB open foil
Yes, buy a "decent" 3m FB open foil.
decent because it will stand up up to beginners abuse and will be your high wind engine as well.
i put most hours of buggying on my 3m Beamer III. You'll see a lot of kites in my quiver and most of them have less than 5-10 sessions on them. i use my 3m Beamer III most often because of the predominate winds here.
my next most often used kite would be my 12m PulseII (yes for buggying).
i agree... learn to 'fly/ride' unattached to kite first.
riding depower in a buggy is sweet but wouldn't be so much while learning to how handle a kite and a buggy.

Thanks for the added advice regarding kite models and bar/handle choices. A lot to think about ! Is the ozone flow handles or bar ?

Quote:

Originally posted by ernie Thanks for the added advice regarding kite models and bar/handle choices. A lot to think about ! Is the ozone flow handles or bar ?

The Ozone Flow can be purchased with either handles or a bar. If you purchase it with a bar it will not be the Ozone Turbo Bar. It would come with a different (simpler) bar that doesn't require a harness.

Quote:

Originally posted by xxxBUGGYPILOTXXX Quote: Originally posted by ernie Thanks for the added advice regarding kite models and bar/handle choices. A lot to think about ! Is the ozone flow handles or bar ? :puzzled:Which Ozone kite are you referring to?

He's talking about the Flow, thus the reason that it says "ozone flow".