Both of them are P.3s, which are listed as 2.5m and aren't particularly powerful for their size either. U2U me if you're interested.

Thanks, I,ll sure think about it.

Sounds like you want to buy USED gear.

It is shocking how much the value of kites with almost no hours on them drops. Foil, arc or LEI if you buy something a few years old you can own 2 or 3 kites for the cost of a single Neo or Charger. Some of the best deals are on LEI. If you buy one kite with a long throw bar the others can be kite only and cheaper.

foil.(nuff said)

Arc. I just had my first solid flight of the Phantom in gusty winds last weekend with some pro guidance from Flexiblade. The arc is a gust muncher. My foil was misbehaving in the gusts. Depowered no worries at all with the arc. Auozenith in full effect as well.

AND you'll get said Arcs for about the cost (maybe marginally more) than an LEI. Self launch is something that'd need to be learned but I think it'd be way easier to learn an Arc self launch than an LEI self launch (given the vintage you'd be buying). That, and the autozenith can almost be like flying a single line kite......just let her fly and admire ; )

But as others have said - try before you buy in any way possible.

Used kites, that is the subject of my next question. The way things work out for me is I can afford about one a year, I've always got new ones, but since finding this forum a few weeks ago I've found alot of good deals on the kites I'm interested in. Here's my concern, as a gear junkie I'm no stranger to good used stuff, but have a rule passed on to me by my father (Ice climber) don't buy anything used that can save your live or kill you, climbing ropes, fall protection, helmets, and for me kites. Am I wrong? Enlighten me.

That rule applies here too.

That is what the good seller list is all about. Folks who can be trusted to sell you quality gear or at least clearly describe the issues on that list . + people you can be sure will work to make a smooth transaction.

My Mom taught me to by top quality used gear for sports. My sports stuff was always good just rarely new .

Thanks,I'll check it out.

Yeah I think this forum is pretty well vetted. In the rare case some joker shows up operating in a less than respectful manner, they get smoked out pretty much right away.

Yup, try before you buy.
make sure you get a kite you're comfortable on, not one that fashion favours.
If you're going for used gear get as much info on what you're buying before spending a penny, if you're unsure ask for pictures of bridle-lines, depower rope, the sail itself, basically everything that wears out, just to be sure.
There are a lot of bargains to be found, especially LEI's but the thing to remember is that single skins wear out quicker (one or two seasons tops) then double skins (8 yr old Arc's still flying without troubles), so if you find something for a real good price be sure to know how many hours it has been flown, and more important how many hrs it has been laying down flapping in the wind (this wears out coating real fast and thus decreases performance)
also known as the "crispy" factor, crispy is good, means coating is still in top shape.

obviously my vote is for a 15m twinskin

Page view bump

I really don't know much about single skin vs. twinskin kites lifespans, but my first LEI was an 05 best nemesis that has certainly had a lot of hours put into it and the fabric is showing no signs of wearing out. If you're only concerned about flying on land, I would probably suggest an open cell foil if you don't want to "deal" with LEIs. If you plan on flying on water, I would suggest either a quiver of crossovers or a quiver of LEIs -- I find that you feel more at one with a kite if you are consistently flying that type (eg. a full quiver of neos), instead of having one type (open-cell) for land and other kinds (LEI, Arc, Neo...) for water. Relaunch and bladder complaints are really the only problems I've heard of people having with LEIs on land -- with the newer bow kites (>07), relaunch is practically just as easy as with a FB, just pull on a back line and it rocks onto an edge ready for launch. Despite the fact that I've never flown my LEIs anywhere but land so far, I have never had a bladder issue. Not to say that it can't happen, but even if it does, you can just replace them. I'm not trying to start a foil v LEI debate in any way, I'm just stating a different perspective. Shortly after I started kiting, I was very frustrated with LEIs and thought arcs would be the solution -- I thought this until I flew both types of kites in clean winds, and that is when I realized that arcs just aren't the kite for me and that I like LEIs more. See if you can hook up with some locals, that is what sped up my learning curve.

Power, this is so refreshing for someone to state that LEI's are for them because that's what they like. You didn't say anything inflammatory at all. I wish it could've been this way all along. Many more people might've learned alot without all the historical flaming when it has become an us vs. them flame war. :bigok:

Got a super deal on a twice flown 12M Syn from Mike at Big Mikes Kites and went with it, should be here Tues. Winds have been 45 mph plus today, hopefully things calm down a bit by then. Also, to POWER I'm the only one in my city flying right now (65,000 pop.). Had one other friend with a huge quiver of Best and Naish LEIs but he died suddenly a couple months ago (cancer at 40, Lame!) It's hard to believe because we have huge open areas for landboarding that are just fantastic and a huge resivior that functions as a cooling supply for a coal fired power plant (one of the biggest in the US) and the water is 65-70 degrees year round and attracts lots of windsurfers but we were the only two kiters. By the way, what's max wind speed on 12m Syn?

Quote:

Originally posted by jsnowdog By the way, what's max wind speed on 12m Syn?

From an earlier posting by Kamikuza

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/mx5alan/arcs/wind_range.htm

ATB,
Sam

Quote:

Originally posted by Jsnowdog I'm in Farmington. Next week I'll be in Alb. but I'm taking my wife and three daughters to Explora and Natural History Museum so probably won't be kiting. but you never know, I'll pack a kite.

my brother lives in farmington. He likes kites but doesn't have any of his own.

doh, I should always look at the date before I post