Quote:

Originally posted by BeamerBob A bit more leaning curve for me. Everyone said once the playa dust hits the kite, especially black sections, it is there to stay. Spraying, scrubbing, washing machine, none of it works. I sprayed down my combat and Phanny yesterday and the Combat came about 90% clean. The Phanny about 70%. I laid them out on the patio and just started spraying and I could see brown water on the downstream side. I hung them to dry (got some friendly comments from the neighbors regarding the 32 foot Phanny draped from an upstairs balcony) and after all that it was well worth the effort. 5.5 Reactor II gets a bath today...............

what a powder keg indeed! far better than mud!

the inside of my sherpa bag looks like shake n bake along with all the crap thats in there with it.

all fresh on the ch 15, the ocean therapy seems to be the ticket. only the slightest tint in some of the stitching. in a week ...you'll never know it.

I think my takeaways for the near future from this thread (and from my OBE on Thursday at NABX) are:

- Learn to slide/drift the buggy to scrub speed (although I'm not really sure how to start learning that one, especially since I'm considering trying an asphalt surface, next. Any experiences/tales-of-woe to share?).
- Turn towards downwind if the kite's getting too far behind you during a an overpower situation.
- Stay off the brakes during overpower.

I wasn't on the brakes (AFAIK) when my 5m Samurai II pulled me horizontally out of the buggy. When the gust hit, I started trying to turn upwind to get the kite *further* off my heading in order to slow down. And why did I want to slow down? Because I was already getting too much sideforce for me to handle (but turning upwind just made that worse, in the short term). I think the buggy was starting to slide, too, which meant that I wasn't going to turn upwind anyway.

I was also trying to raise the kite, but for some reason I'm not sure of, that wasn't happening very quickly. So it seems the 5m Samurai was:

- Too big for the playa + 25-mph gusts (!) + me, and
- Lacking in the aspect-ratio department, causing it to drift back from the edge of the window too much when the buggy speed started to rise.

I tried to scrub speed going down a street hills last week (no kite) and the buggy almost flipped I think asphult has too much friction to try this.

I remember my first ride on the lake bed. It was my first time to NABX in 2006. I pulled up in my rental car and was amazed at the area in general and was frantic to get my buggy put together and get out there. After a little work and having Claxton help me find someone with air for my tires. I was ready to roll. I threw a 3.6M HQ Beamer up and jumped in the buggy and took off. After the first run out across the lake bed I thought to myself Holy Crap, I'm hauling butt...I don't remember going this fast on the beach back home. Then after throwing a hard turn and hearing my tires squeal like I just slammed on the brakes in my truck to avoid hitting a deer in the road, I thought Holy crap! where is my helmet? and How the hell am I gonna slow down. I cruised back to camp, parked the buggy, and went looking for my safety gear. Frantically looking for my gear. I was ready to throw down good cash for a helmet when I found it in the back of the trunk, and this is from a guy that had never worn one unless it was blowing really hard.

I became a firm believer in some safety gear on the playa that year. Speed was really easy to come by and you didn't need much kite to get it. I achieved an OBE while flying a 3M Samurai later in the week. One min in the buggy, next second hovering over the buggy looking down thinking Wow, I didn't think this kite had lift? and looking at my buggy thinking, it is going in such a nice straight line with no one in it, and this is gonna hurt when I come back down... Over the week I got more used to going faster but it was a very humbling experience, but I had a blast. I did my best speed that week on the smallest kite I had, A 1.8M hitting right at 40mph. The largest kite I flew that week was a 5M when it was light. Back home on the beach the smallest kite I fly is a 5M unless it is really howling. I took in what all was going on around me the whole week. Some amazing riding going on out there and I learned a lot.

A lot of it, no matter what surface your on, is flying the kite correctly. When flown to it's fullest potential it is amazing what will come out of a kite. Especially on the lake bed. I enjoy being in the kite buggy and still today it is a learning experience every time I go out. Always learning something new or working on this or that. And yes, that dust sticks to kites like white on rice. NABX is an event I truly hate missing. I will be back again, that's for sure. :roll:

So, Rob, how do you like that 5m Apex II? What winds does it perform well in. And did you ever fly it in a dry lakebed? Oh and thanks for sharing your experiences.

Just got it actually. I have been trying to get a demo on a few different sizes but keep missing them. Just decided to get a few for myself this season. Waiting on the 7.5 still...

Quote:

Originally posted by Rob13 Just got it actually. I have been trying to get a demo on a few different sizes but keep missing them. Just decided to get a few for myself this season. Waiting on the 7.5 still...

I think you'll get a lot more use out of the 7.5 ? It should take you in to the 30's for winds.
The one I tried was very gentle and predictable!

Quote:

Originally posted by arkay I tried to scrub speed going down a street hills last week (no kite) and the buggy almost flipped I think asphult has too much friction to try this.

I would say too much TRACTION. ;-)

So, been following this thread on my phone, so not able to reply, finally found a spot to sit down and write.

Fantastic thread, awesome.

Some things i've learned from the dry lakes over the years.

This IS the place to learn. I quickly realized from coming back and buggying with others, you learn more in a week than you do all summer at home, but you have to use it.

Some examples are, keeping the kite low, instead of flying it high when you want to slow down. It's really hard to get an OBE when the kite is close to the ground, and your tires tend to stick way better when they are not being pulled up. Just keep going up wind, no matter what, till you stop.

That said, with so much room to run, play with control when say a gust hits, and instead of fighting it, go with it. Sounds mad, but your ride actually smooths out. Just go a little further down, remember, kite low. After the gust pass's then come up and slow down. I've hit my greatest speeds in this manner and they were the smoothest. Often the fastest i've gone feels easy, and the fastest i felt i was going i really wasn't, while actually fighting, trying to hold a harder/higher line.

Kite size. Before i went to the dark side and started using the Phantom's i had minimum 9 kites with me for lake bed trips. Learned that the hard way too, as whatever i left home, i always needed. This last trip at harpers i used the 6, and at Ivanpah i used the 9 mostly but got one smooth monday afternoon on the 12! Did both my out n bacS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s on the 9 and was both underpowered and pretty skeered! Love that kite. Even when it got behind me on a down hill run of insane speed, and turned inside out, (my punch out failed) i landed it(upside down, wrong way around) and didn't wrap the lines around my rear tire! Yeah.

Always start out small. Noodle around, it's been a while since your last time, start slow, build back up, only takes a couple hours, then you will be ready, your confidence up, your permagrin ready, and your skin intact.

Helmet. Hate them. Always wear one on the dry lake bed. Helps your head when the buggy clobbers you, and it always goes for your head.

Back to slowing down, don't forget when your tires are biting in, to move forward in the buggy to unweight the rear tires. Body position in the buggy is often critical. Sometimes i even hop up a little to unweight.

If you are skeered of sliding on the lake bed, use the edges to practice, they have more dust, and it's easier to get loose there.

Thanks all for the great stuff you've been putting up here, keep it happening, and all those cards and letters and pictures coming!

aoxomoxoa (sitting at the beach, buggy ready, kites ready, no wind!)

Quote:

Originally posted by Bladerunner Quote: Originally posted by Rob13 Just got it actually. I have been trying to get a demo on a few different sizes but keep missing them. Just decided to get a few for myself this season. Waiting on the 7.5 still... I think you'll get a lot more use out of the 7.5 ? It should take you in to the 30's for winds. The one I tried was very gentle and predictable!

I believe Dakitez used his 7.5 most of the time at NABX. It is a great kite. Next year I will be ready with my 7.5 Apex II and 9M Phantom.

I was so paranoid pre-NABX that I exploded my sub 5m quiver selection. Took out the Hornet 1.5 on Tuesday after watching the fellow next to me static fly his new 2m and seemed to be managing. Well, thankfully he was watching and helped Bill and I get it in the air cuz the kite killers were too tight and dragging n the brakes. He helped sort me out and I made the Tuesday ride. When I got back I said I'd never do it again but after the rest of the week I surely will. It was crazy windy Tuesday but by the end of it I would have loved to have another day like that to try.

Thursday I logged my personal best 65 km/h flying out a gust with the Rage 6.0 which I had unpacked mid-lake after feeling the 4m Buster wasn't enough. The gust was hard enough to snap my 170lb test strop - and I was already at speed! Busted midline too - not at a knot. I'm glad I erred on the light side on that one. Still, not trusting the strop any longer, I switched to my PKD camcleat handles with the through the handle single front line / strop and flew that the rest of NABX. Granted the wind settled a bit Friday / Saturday.

BB - what you're saying about swinging the kite overhead to try to lose power and scrub speed......that's what I found myself doing constantly despite having been educated on the snow with the Phanny the day I was ripping so hard that nudging the kite to zenith just made me lose traction on the skis and I found it incredibly hard to shave speed. Dean's just reaffirmed a tidbit I got from Markite - that despite instincts, the answer is to bring the kite low and out front and edge your life upwind. Forgot that out on the playa but only because there's so much room you can send it upward and wait out the ride as you slow down. Gonna have to try the down low slow down next chance I get.

Thanks for the thread. Kinda wishing I'd unrolled Wolfee's Centurys out there now - surely more efficient than the Busters were.

Well, I must say that while I felt like I was doing the right thing at the time, there were times when going up high just didn't work and for all the reasons Dean explained. It seemed so counter intuitive to drop the kite down low when I was most trying to get away from its power, but in retrospect that is where I would be most able to deal with the power. How I'd love to have another full day of wind there now that my brain has caught up with my rear end. :Ange09:

Indeed, Tuesday was a fantastic day I found myself really loving those conditions. so now that I've learned the beach doesn't transition to the playa directly, what will I do when it's blowing 30's at my beach... and it's an off-shore wind I'll be tempted to pull the 1.7 sting out and give it a try. It was just so managable and fun. Here's hoping for some brutal wind this summer!

I learned a lot from this thread last year, and just read through the whole thing again. For those that aren't multi-year veterans or have never ridden on the dry lake before, maybe it can help you progress faster.

BB thank you for draggin this out of the vault.

Much appreciated.:bouncing:

Quote:

Originally posted by PHREERIDER Quote: Originally posted by BeamerBob A bit more leaning curve for me. Everyone said once the playa dust hits the kite, especially black sections, it is there to stay. Spraying, scrubbing, washing machine, none of it works. I sprayed down my combat and Phanny yesterday and the Combat came about 90% clean. The Phanny about 70%. I laid them out on the patio and just started spraying and I could see brown water on the downstream side. I hung them to dry (got some friendly comments from the neighbors regarding the 32 foot Phanny draped from an upstairs balcony) and after all that it was well worth the effort. 5.5 Reactor II gets a bath today............... what a powder keg indeed! far better than mud! the inside of my sherpa bag looks like shake n bake along with all the crap thats in there with it. all fresh on the ch 15, the ocean therapy seems to be the ticket. only the slightest tint in some of the stitching. in a week ...you'll never know it.

white vinegar gets the alkaline dust off, just a little bit mix with water scrub lightly and rinse, may have to do it twice.

So maybe that is the stuff that water won't wash off?

yes sir! that is alkaline, for those who haven't experienced the playa dust, it has the substance of baking powder, it will coat and get in to holes I can not say on a public forum, and everything will look desert tan specially dark colors, vinegar is the only thing that will wash it off. nothing like driving down the road turning your heater on and getting a puff of playa dust out of the vents, great reminder of times on the playa!!!

Hi all another question ?

What is the preferred line length for smaller kites ?

When i flew bridled foils, i liked long lines, around 80-100 feet. This gave me plenty of sky to sweep and plenty of time to make adjustments.

By shortening the lines, you can fly bigger kites. A kite makes its power by sweeping the sky, or through what's known as 'dynamic sheeting'.

The shorter the sweep, the less power, and longer sweep more, so you can get more out of a small kite with longer lines, and fly a bigger kite with shorter.

I use very thin lines on my bridled foils, usually 80# on the bottoms and no more than 300# on the tops, and sometimes smaller on top for less line drag.

Your milage may very.

aoxo~soon~oxoa

Quote:

Originally posted by nocando Hi all another question ? What is the preferred line length for smaller kites ?

Personally perferrence I think.

I use 15m and nothing longer.

I also recieved several emails / u2u asking what sizes to bring. I have something posted way back at the top.

For me line length only affects the length of time I spend unwrapping my buggy.

Longer lines = more time unwrapping! :frog:

Rip thanks found that info

Quote:

Originally posted by csa_deadon For me line length only affects the length of time I spend unwrapping my buggy. Longer lines = more time unwrapping! :frog:

I seriously LOL on that one. Those gnarly new tires you have are going to be very efficient as line winders. You have that headstock padded these days? :o

This is a great thread, and interesting reading about keeping the kite low when scrubbing speed off, this is the way I have been scrubbing speed off at speed for years, and yes you think...keeping it low, in the power zone....Nah, but do it, it works, just flick the back end of the buggy round, so the kite is almost pulling you sideways, and the beauty of this stopping or slowing down method is ...no OBE's, now all this works just fine on the beach or on grass, I know the playa is ooober grippy, so....I am guessing I will not have to be quite so aggressive on my scrubbing speed off maneuvers, but like has been mentioned a few times above, there is a whole lot of room to just go upwind and slow down naturally......

The feelings running through my body now with 36 days left before I arrive there are....

what will it really feel like on the playa, I have read all the stories, but I need to know what it really feels like....

will I have everything I need when I get there, I am sure to forget something

I have seen a few big buggies that are heading out there with big disc wheels on, I am now wishing I had made a buggy for my 19" GSX disc wheels and shipped that out there...(too late now)...I think my buggy will look like a child's play thang in comparison..

I have ordered 6 smoothies from Kent....will it be enough??

Roll on the next 36 days, then all my worries and thoughts will be no more, then the time will be to play, have fun and meet loads of buggying buddies will start, I dont think I have ever looked forward to anything in my life more than this.....so much so it hurts

I see Bladerunner talking about taking an 18m phantom "just in case" to Ivanpah. What winds that you could launch in could you fly such a big kite there? Still learning this lakebed stuff, and questioning what I thought I knew. I'm bringing everything myself, but figure I won't fly much of my stuff besides my 8 venom and 10 syn along with my 2 small Reactors. HQ has that new toxic I want to put some miles on, and I'm going to sneak out on a vapor and see how I get along with them.

I have the luxury of needing to get this stuff figured out for more than a few days a year now, so class is in session.