OK so officially the worst day in my short kiting career...

Have had the kites out quite a lot since starting in May. In fact, probably got about 30+ hours under my harness at this point. Can pretty much fly the trainer blind and started working on the depower skills and a few SMALL 1-2ft pendulum jumps on the 5m apex. So figured it was about time to try and put the kites together with my ATB but apparently it was not the day to do it.

STRIKE 1: As the windtronic showed anywhere from 4-15 winds (with some gusts at 20) I knew my hopes of trying to learn to landboard were pretty slim to none as I would think it would be easier to start in a nice steady and SAFE 8-12.

STRIKE 2: Because winds were everywhere from 4 - 15mph and then some gusts at 20 and I have had my 5m apex out in steady 10-15, I thought I could handle it. Started doing a few pendulums and right when I did, I got lifted about 4ft and had to swallow my heart back down as I landed on my knees. Gathered myself, put it back in the air and it would not even go up. Then WHACK, huge gust took the kite away as I was trying to hook in/safety leash and away the apex goes and I ran after it. Finally got it back, untangled the mess and packed the damn thing away.

STRIKE 3: Swallowed my pride and took out the 2m ozone flow just to get more practice in and tried boarding but just not enough to get me going so tried to make the best of it by just sitting down and painting the kite across the sky, looping it and just basically putting on a mini show for some families watching nearby. Then, all of a sudden the effin lines SNAPPED! Yup, both the brake line and the power line on the right side just gave way at the same place and at the same time and the kite was down.

At this point I just drank a beer and called it quits. WTFreak I did to the kite Gods to make them hate me so much!?

MY QUESTION: I thought the Apex II was a gust sucker-upper? I mean I know I only weigh 135lbs. but cripes, have I been mislead? Would a 4m access have been better? I also am not a fan of the how the safety works as the thing lands SO far away when you release the tophat AND the 4 lines always seem to get caught up in each other's knots when the lines are a bit slack. Anyone else get this?

Also, what would cause BOTH lines on the same side of the FLOW to snap? Has anyone else noticed this issue with their FLOW? I was looking at the other side and there seems to be some fatigue there as well. Bought it as a demo kite from an official Ozone shop and have only flown 2x - how can this be? Now I have to pay for a new set of lines which takes me to the price of a brand new FLOW anyway?!?!

Any feedback would be appreciated as I try to regain the little bit of confidence that I had started to build both in the sport and in the equipment.

Regarding your flow. Did the lines snap 5-8 ft from your handles?? If that's where they snapped it's more than likely due to flying the kite with the lines twisted. If you look at your lines while your flying you'll notice that they cross just a short way away from your handles. The more you fly with your lines twisted the more they will wear and have a shorter life span. In order to maximize the life of your lines try to minimize the amount you ride with twists in them. Of course if they weren't showing signs of wear (becoming furry) and broke somewhere else than perhaps you got a nic in them last time out which weakened them. Zippers on kite bags are great for eating line or fabric if your not careful.

Just a few thoughts to ponder.

See you at Wildwood:wee:

@Kteguru- The lines snapped about 10-12 ft up from the bar. And just for good measure, I hardly ever fly with twisted lines as I am wary about creating weak spots so I usually never loop the kite unless its on the turbo bar, which you can spin and let the twist out without having to reverse loop. Should have mentioned this in the original post.

Time to carry spares of everything then . I always have several spare line and handles for when I snap something which seems to happen a lot lately.

Not sure you would have had a much different result with any kite when the wind goes from nothing to full throttle in a heart beat.

The Apex II is a great gust sucker upper, but you have to be reasonable. As for your lines, YOU may have only flown it 2 times, and YOU may avoid flying with twists in your line, but who know what THEY did before you had it.

-Mike

I am usually leary of used line sets and wont use them if I even have question about their condition. I would rather get a new set than risk damaging a kite when one lets go. Crap happens, but you can work around it. You can shorten the other 2 lines, and re sleeve them to get you by untill you can get a new set. Just make sure you get them all the same length. As to the apex line mess, I have very little de-power experience but anytime you completely cut a kite loose during one of those uh-oh moments, you will inevitably have some sorting out to do. Sorry you had a rough day

I doubt that both of the lines broke at exactly the same time. What probably happened is that the top line broke and the load on right side of the got transferred to the weaker bottom line and it failed a few tenths of a second later. You may not feel luck about it, but it sounds like the kite is fine, it could have been worse. Twice I have had the lower bridle and a few bridle mounts rip off a kite after a top line failure. Both of these failures occurred is gusty winds at the top wind range for the kites.

It sounds like the line set was relatively new, it should not have happened. With your weight at 135lbs I can imagine you over loaded them. You could have put a nick on it with a rock or shell and weakened it or I may have been a manufacturing defect.

Do you know what the strength of the lines were?

Silly question, but did you have the stronger (ozone usually uses orange) attached to the top of the kite?

You can salvage what is left and make a short line set, ask for pointers if you want to try it.

Quote:

Originally posted by buggydanny I doubt that both of the lines broke at exactly the same time. What probably happened is that the top line broke and the load on right side of the got transferred to the weaker bottom line and it failed a few tenths of a second later. You may not feel luck about it, but it sounds like the kite is fine, it could have been worse. Twice I have had the lower bridle and a few bridle mounts rip off a kite after a top line failure. Both of these failures occurred is gusty winds at the top wind range for the kites. It sounds like the line set was relatively new, it should not have happened. With your weight at 135lbs I can imagine you over loaded them. You could have put a nick on it with a rock or shell and weakened it or I may have been a manufacturing defect. Do you know what the strength of the lines were? Silly question, but did you have the stronger (ozone usually uses orange) attached to the top of the kite? You can salvage what is left and make a short line set, ask for pointers if you want to try it.

BuggyDanny is correct more than likely the top broke first.
Ozone lines are some of the best ones out there. They are the only lines that I have not managed to snap yet.

Make sure you check if the brake lines were on the brakes, I am sure they were though otherwise you would be telling us how the rear bridal is now laying next to the kite. But it wouldn`t be the first time that someone mixed them up.

Be happy that the kite is ok and write you dealer a nice email. If he is a Dealer who stands behind his products you will have a new set on the way. I know I would send you a new set!

I had some nice pictures here from a 5 Minute old Reactor II with a torn out bridal due to Faulty lines. The main line was not maufactured correctly and the first time it was under real pressure it gave way transfering all pressure to the rear line which tore the bridal right out of the kite. I brought the kite to Peter Lynn (I was in Holland at the time) and they fixed it free of charge even though the lines were at fault and from a diffrent manufacturer.

I can confirm the power lines were attached as directed. It was just kind of odd how they snapped in the same place and within an inch of each other. I do plan on contacting the place where I got the kite on Monday.

I guess it could have been worse and I could have really screwed up the bridle on the flow and totally lost the apex in the ocean but with daylight waning as the fall hits here in New England, I am relishing every chance I get to get on that atb and get moving.

Regarding the crazy wind... And I won't take offense but should I have been able to hold that 5m apex down in those conditions? Or do I need to gain a good 100 lbs before trying again. (fiancée would prob not like that idea too much)?

Holding the 5m Apex down in 20mph gusts? Maybe in the buggy with a good amount of trim but I don't think I'd like to try that standing up. 25mph and I'm putting it down but better pilots than me will fly it in higher winds.

As for the gusty winds you had, yes, I've had a few days like that - nothing....nothing...a bit...WHAM...nothing... you get the picture! In short, that sort of day is 'orrible to fly in and I go do something else. Depowers will absorb gusts but they have limits. Those sort of days can be a bit dangerous too - I often watch the trees at home - if they are wildly gyrating around I just think 'forget it'.

Often when I lay out my kite, I will have to take a bridle line off from where it's caught around a knot or a pulley - both Apex and Ozone do this to me regularly - no big deal.

I haven't had a broken line yet - I suspect it must have had some sort of abrasion of weak spot put in it - but at least it didn't happen to you while you were a few feet in the air....but it could have. I love watching videos of Chasta flying through the air with the snowboard, it's just amazing. But if one line were to break......

Some days are fabulous, some are like the one you just had. The wind is rarely consistent, particularly inland. That's why I love the afternoon seabreezes. Cherish the good days and put the bad ones down to experience!!

Cheers,

John

edit: One time I was trying to launch my 6m XC at the edge of the window but there wasn't quite enough wind - it sort of went up, luffed a bit, dropped back a bit....then a bit more...then landed on the roof of my car - got caught up in the roof rack and tore a small hole in the kite. I was NOT happy!! My own stupid fault for parking my car too bloody close to the kite. I've never posted that video!! Some days are like that!

Quote:

Originally posted by chudalicious MY QUESTION: I thought the Apex II was a gust sucker-upper? I mean I know I only weigh 135lbs. but cripes, have I been mislead? Would a 4m access have been better? I also am not a fan of the how the safety works as the thing lands SO far away when you release the tophat AND the 4 lines always seem to get caught up in each other's knots when the lines are a bit slack. Anyone else get this? Also, what would cause BOTH lines on the same side of the FLOW to snap? Has anyone else noticed this issue with their FLOW? I was looking at the other side and there seems to be some fatigue there as well. Bought it as a demo kite from an official Ozone shop and have only flown 2x - how can this be? Now I have to pay for a new set of lines which takes me to the price of a brand new FLOW anyway?!?! Any feedback would be appreciated as I try to regain the little bit of confidence that I had started to build both in the sport and in the equipment.

I had a 10m Apex II and (in comparison to my Access XTs) I found it to be a little more brutal in a gust. Probably due to the Apex having one pulley per side and the Access having two. I had trouble with the bar set-up on the Apex getting parts of itself caught in other part (I think it needs streamlined a bit), but don't think I had issues with knots on the kite end, not sure which you're asking about. I agree that when you pull the top hat on the Apex II the little loop that you feed the pin on the safety through ends up awfully far away, but it's got to go far enough to depower the kite :dunno:.

As for the Flow. When I first got my 2m Flow and my 1m Imp Quattro, I used the Flow in 25g30mph winds at Wildwood using the lines from the Imp (which are actually lighter) and didn't break them. There was probably wear on the lines from when it was a demo kite. People learning tend to end up with a lot of twists.

Can't wait to see you at Wildwood, that'll give you a chance to try lots of other equipment and learn from some of the best (not me ).

Thanks guys - your feedback is very much appreciated.

John - Ouch! That 6m getting a little cuddly with your car rack must of really made you see fire! Chalking the day up to experience is prob the best way to look at it and i am glad you echo my sentiment that it wasn't just me being at fault for the crappy day out as the wind played a major part.

maven - as far as the knots getting all tangled in each other, it happens near the bar, not the bridle. As I have not yet flown the frenzy yet, I am hoping it does not act similarly as my turbo bar does not do that to me. Looking forward to WW though - hope you bring your kitty with you so I can find ya!:eureka:

Quote:

Originally posted by chudalicious maven - as far as the knots getting all tangled in each other, it happens near the bar, not the bridle. As I have not yet flown the frenzy yet, I am hoping it does not act similarly as my turbo bar does not do that to me. Looking forward to WW though - hope you bring your kitty with you so I can find ya!:eureka:

My Manta M3 and Access XT bar leaders do not snag on themselves, hopefully your Frenzy won't either.

I've got several people who should be looking for me, so I'll be wearing a PKF shirt with my user name written on the back :D.

My son and I were just recently flying in the same conditions you described and he was getting the same results big surprise lofts in the gusts. When I flew it I was able to keep it minimal and more controlled . The difference is I was able to hear the wind gusts coming (he had a full face helmet on)and I think I can feel them a tad sooner and get it depowered sooner than he can . I also avoid swinging the kite across the window and cranking it overhead in an attemp to jump, I like staying on the ground , he's likes "where kite go boy follow". So I think your kite is doing things the way it is suppose to and modifying your technique will be helpfull. See you at WBB

Quote:

Originally posted by snowspider The difference is I was able to hear the wind gusts coming (he had a full face helmet on)and I think I can feel them a tad sooner and get it depowered sooner than he can

<* Cringe *>

The sub-text there is a little disturbing. In conditions that probably are more likely to warrant a fullface helmet, you seem to be saying that it is actually a libability.

Gusts are by their nature erratic.... rather that counting on being able "anticipate" them by whatever fractions of a second, it might be better just to leave the full-face helmet on and fly a bit throttled back.

A few years back there was a really good article/column about performing certain tasks/activities at 70% when presented with marginal conditions, leaving the other 30% as a safety buffer.

I would be more likely to contend that your ability to depower sooner has more to do with your experience and mindset (often underrated).

IMHOO... the comment struck a chord from elsewhere.

ATB,
Sam

Thanks guys - and for the record, I had my Troy Lee full face on moments later!

It's a a tough spot and sport to be in... especially because when I put my mind to something (like saying on Saturday, I am kiting dangit!) I don't want anything like the silly ole wind messing up my plans to have some fun. Guess at my still very new level, I need to just suck it up and pack it up a bit sooner until I can fly hooked in 100% of the time. Least that will let me depower it and deal with the fluxing wind accordingly instead of launching the kite powered up and at its full power potential.

@Indigo - congrats on the 1800th post man, you should get a box of cracker jacks or something for that right?

Thanks.

Pretty sure, it's a:

• T-Shirt emblazoned with"Working On Getting a Life"
  
• Key Fob inscribed with "Saved by Sora"

ATB,
Sam

P.S. Sora is the nylon that Flexifoil uses (my first foils).