So I am finishing up the "Method" kiteboarding book and the whole thing seems to revolve around line lengths.

While the advantages/disadvantages of shorter/longer lines make sense does it really make as much difference as they say?

If so it seems i have been wasting my money on different kites when I could just buy 1/2/3 and change the line lengths to get more power? Longer pull time? There has to be a limit to the benefits of lengthening the lines right???

How much difference does it really make? Standard length lines (OEM) is all I have ever flown.....am I missing out?

Try it out it really does make a difference, but nothing replaces a full quiver of kites on a twitchy day. I fly mine at 75m my buddy flys his at 100m he likes to let his kites run a little more. :Ange09:

There are different reasons for different line lengths.

In high winds with a small kite I find the most value in short short lines.

Riding offshore wind over a bluff or over houses on long lines can be worth it.

Multi length lines don't replace a multi kite quiver but they have their place and changing them up DOES work !

BB is right, you still need a quiver to make any day work for the kite and the buggy.
I can fly a 13m Century on 200 foot lines in NO wind, I can buggy with the same set up with 2mph wind. But when the wind reaches 6 to 7mph it will only be flown on 25m lines or less.
Changing the lines, short or long only gives you a small extension to the use of that kite, not enough to eliminate a kite.

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Originally posted by wahone Try it out it really does make a difference, but nothing replaces a full quiver of kites on a twitchy day. I fly mine at 75m my buddy flys his at 100m he likes to let his kites run a little more. :Ange09:

... assume you mean feet :o

Got longer lines on the Rebble, shorter lines on the Core and I think I prefer the shorter line. 25m vs 20m IIRC ...

So it makes small changes to the power....sounds reasonable. I may have to try some longer ones on my twister just for the hell of it.

I guess I could buy one long set and interchange among kites as long as they are high enough strength right?

longer lines will get more power out of a kite, but create more drag and slow the response time down...

once i tried to fly a 7.7m kite in about 4 mph wind on 15m lines... didnt fly for poo... put it on some 30m lines, pulled like a truck...

length allows more exposure to wind (larger wind window)

i only ever use long lines to eek more power out of a kite thats too small for the wind im trying to fly it in

Haven't actually tried longer vs shorter lines on the same kite, but I prefer the responsiveness of the (slightly) shorter lines. The difference between 15 and 30 would be very noticeable compared with 20 and 25 IMHO ... my 3.5m Cult has 15m lines IIRC and again IMHO it's a good choice - I take that out in nuking winds and I'd rather work it for power and have snap control ...

Anyone seen the video of the guy kiting across Alaska with the Flysurfer on 100m lines

I have some 30m lines I use occasionally and I do notice a much longer power stroke through the window but here's my question - Once you're up to speed in the buggy/board and you're park 'n ride - does the line length make any difference at all? I would assume it would not, but it would take a lot of working to get you up to park 'n ride speed....

I wonder if 5m lines on a 19m Speed 3 would give you a small paraglider........

Apparently they will fly on lines that short ... but I do believe Armin is working on an actual crossover kite/paraglider on real short lines - there was a pic around of it somewhere ...

... you can fly the Speed 2 on handles - it's in the manual

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Originally posted by John Holgate I have some 30m lines I use occasionally and I do notice a much longer power stroke through the window but here's my question - Once you're up to speed in the buggy/board and you're park 'n ride - does the line length make any difference at all? I would assume it would not, but it would take a lot of working to get you up to park 'n ride.

The biggest difference with longer lines is the window in which the kite flys. It is a much larger window and the kite has to travel a longer distance from one side to the other. If you are creating apparent wind due to longer lines, you must use all of the window and it will take a bit of time to travel the extra distance. So you can still park and ride(which is the same as short lines), but your turns are a little longer in the bug, and you have to be patient with the extra time. Short lines-quicker kite and quicker response time, longer lines-longer response time
I have done this many times with 10m and up and it is very enjoyable, but you have to have the room to land the kite if you get into trouble.
I will be trying longer lines on smaller kites as soon as my chest heals and my balls get bigger, should be a hoot.

i went through a lot of line change stuff and in general this is where it all fits in..

a larger window , so longer power strokes which generate a little more power but slows the reaction and input. short lines do the exact opposite.

if you have a rig you like and you want a "little more" 5-10m more on the lines will help but will slow things down which may be desired. this "little more" allows for the extra you need to get going and once the system gets up to speed (this is the apparent wind ) its kinda the same once rolling like JH said. only the initial power is the net in the longer line scenario.

shorter lines <15m really gets fast and weak. too fast for most . and short lines allows alot gear crashes because it so fast and beats up your junk. funn for a while but not practical, only in introduction to the kite handling is it useful. a big kite with short lines in high winds is still a big kite in high winds that's unusually fast which will only get you hurt quicker, promise.

if fly skills allow for huge timing changes and power bands for any given rig it has its place and can help IF you KNOW what you are looking for.

... for the right winds and rider ALL can be very usable and fun.

but kite replacement for condition's NO.

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Originally posted by John HolgateOnce you're up to speed in the buggy/board and you're park 'n ride - does the line length make any difference at all?

yes... kite is less responsive and there is a lot more drag

All I know is that I like kites. And since I'm going to have as many kites as I possibly can, I might as well size the kite for the wind instead of worrying about my lines :D.

line length and kite size work together

getting a kite to fly in zero wind just means your running back or using finesse and you dont need 60m lines to fly. flying to long lines can be dangerous and cause lift.

production complete kites come with 20m kites (FB), 20m to 30m depending plus extensions (DP), 15 to 25m plus extensions (LEI)

if you have clean wind (onshore) i suggest nothing longer than 20m and if you are flying in dirty wind (offshore) no longer than 40m.

whats the difference between 25m and 17m ??? how much do you really gain?
when Grant and I were at Grayland we both had 16m Vapors going the same speed.

going after speed, using the correctly tuned kite with the least amount of drift, and short lines for reduced drag.

if you need to run longer lines you can make a few brake line adjustments to help turn the kite faster.

Good discussion, guys. I'm thinking about setting up a depower bar with some shorter lines (12-15) meters or so but my reason for doing so is narrow beaches - sometimes my 25m lines take up most of my local beach making it a little tricky for other beach users (kiters, cars, horses, people, walking fish etc). It will be interesting to put the Apex's on shorter lines as they are nowhere near as fast to respond as fixed bridles anyway and they are a mostly park 'n ride type kite. When I do, I'll put some video up. I won't be putting shorter lines on the 4m XT - that thing moves a bit too fast on 25m lines as it is!

"getting a kite to fly in zero wind just means your running back or using finesse and you dont need 60m lines to fly. flying to long lines can be dangerous and cause lift. "

Question, Would potential unwanted lift be caused by the longer stroke through the window, kite speed, or different air high up? Just curious as to how it would be generated....

So what it sounds like is the line length is really more in the realm of "tuning" vs. substitution. The book I was reading made it sound like it was THE MOST IMPORTANT THING and the kite size was secondary.

Off topic---

Kami....what does it take to become a Kiteoholics anonymous member??? Just admitting I have a problem or my wife saying I do! Where do I sign up!!!! I am an addict! My motorcycle is about to go so I can get a flysurfer:wee:

i used to use a 12M naish boxer on 10m lines.

mad crazy fun in about 10-12mph on atb.

really snappy flow old c-kite style

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whats the difference between 25m and 17m ??? how much do you really gain? when Grant and I were at Grayland we both had 16m Vapors going the same speed.

Rip I don't think this is a fair compairison. Weren't you in a PL big foot? The apexx and Grant out weigh that PL and you by at least 80lbs. So I would say that the 25M lines Grant was flying made it so he could keep up with you on 17M lines.

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Originally posted by vwbrian Quote: whats the difference between 25m and 17m ??? how much do you really gain? when Grant and I were at Grayland we both had 16m Vapors going the same speed. Rip I don't think this is a fair compairison. Weren't you in a PL big foot? The apexx and Grant out weigh that PL and you by at least 80lbs. So I would say that the 25M lines Grant was flying made it so he could keep up with you on 17M lines.

at Grayland, Ken 3 / Grant / Myself were all on the ApeXX buggies.

at LONG Beach was on the PL BF+ using a Vapor 13m, Grant was on the 16m
http://vimeo.com/12753708