So I was bit by the buggy bug this past weekend and want to look into getting one but not before doing the proper homework, of course!

Thinking of the PL XR+ or the Bigfoot as the folding just did not look like the seat was deep enough for my likings.

Keeping in mind:
- I weigh 135, fiancee weighs 215ish and we both want to use

- Want something that we get in, not on - so a deeper seat with plenty o rail padding

- would be going in grass, hardpack and prob some softer sand

- MOST IMPORTANT: needs to fit in the back of his SUV (seats down obviously)

LOVE the look and feel of the Libre but I don't think you can break it down enough to transport. Do the XR and BF "easily" come apart? Tools needed? Would the XR+ with the wide tires give us enough?

Lots of questions so any feedback is mucho appreciated-o.

SUV have a tow hitch/receiver? See WELDNGOD for an outside rack to rest the Libre on! (or have one fabricated locally)

Hi Bob - dont have the hitch just yet. We need to get one though for our bikes but was hoping to avoid the extra charge now by getting something that we can break down if need be. Thought PL was famous for the back axle removal trick?

Have to say though, the Libres look sexy and comfy but spppeeeendy!!!!!!!

It's nice to be able to have your buggy locked up inside, but I'm on my third buggy now and this one requires being hauled on a hitch rack but wouldn't go back to avoid the rack. Your desire to sit "in" the buggy is wise and something that each buggy upgrade or improvement I made sought to increase. If you go the PL route, a backrest will increase your security.

Ya, I can throw my Comp Std right in the back of the pickup, then lock the cap, but it is more of a sit on than in. Very nimble, turns on a dime, but wish it had a little more heft to it. Been pulled out sideways(superman) many times, mostly when trying to 2 wheel it, or holding a little too much kite when a gust comes up!:wee: Someday I'll get a big truck(buggy, that is), then I'll need a hitch rack.

Tib has an XR+ for sale right now. I believe it had the wide tires. I also scored an XR this weekend as my MONSTER SIZED buggy prevents me from getting out as much as I would like.
But you eventually add a BF fork/downtube/axle and have two set-ups.

Bigfoot with a backrest (you'd have to make one) will give you more of the "sit in" feel and that takes care of portability as long as you account for the volume taken up by the bigfoot tires.

My Ivanpah definitely has that "sit-in" #@%$#!pit feel, but is big and heavy and demands an external rack. But I did 38 miles on Jekyll Island yesterday, holding on to the big Phantom 18m and staying comfy at speeds in the 30's.

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Bigfoot with a backrest (you'd have to make one) will give you more of the "sit in" feel and that takes care of portability as long as you account for the volume taken up by the bigfoot tires.

Angus - so that means either PL is somewhat portable? But how so?

Also, xr with wide tires or big foot - huge difference in where you can go?

Yeah the PL's have the "famous back-axle removal trick". Un-clip two straps and it pops off without tools. I can get the XR + in the back of a Toyota Carolla with 1/2 the back seat folded down; not sure of the BF tires, though. SUV no problem for the BF.

As far as Tires and terrain, the only difference the BF's make for me with all the hard-pack sand we have (big tidal range) is the short trip from the parking area through the sugar sand, which is a real slog with the heavy Ivanpah. Otherwise standard 4" tires would be fine except for the few meters of semi soft sand where the hard-pack starts to dry out towards the dunes.

If on the other hand you have coarser loose "gravel sand" all over and less hard pack (like the Florida Gulf) then the BF's are key. BF's also are great in big fields that are not fine lawns (or sod farms).

The bigfoot (or most any larger buggy) gets the tires out of elbow range. When I was between buggies and riding a comp XR+, I kept scabs continually on both elbows from them hitting the rear tires. Not a problem on the Ivanpah of course. You are also less likely to snag brake lines or kite killers with the rear tires further away from you and further back. The wider axle also greatly increases your ability to hold a side load without picking up the upwind tire, which is the first step to being able to stay in the buggy.

Bigfoot tires won't give you lots of fun if your whole run is in soft powdery sand you can hardly walk in but they are awesome for when you run through a soft spot on the beach or have to turn around in soft sand. The bigfoot tires just roll through it while barrows or the wide tires might not make it out. They are also nice and comfy on rougher grass surfaces like Angus mentioned.

And they float, too. Ask Tridude about boddy dragging out to the sand bar with the kite overhead and the BF Bug floating behind. Still a picture I have to see.

First off, thanks for all the feedback as it is very much appreciated.

I like the idea of having the tires further away from me as to not have them in the way. I imagine this would be a bigger issue for my 6ft 2 man as his reach exceeds mine and would be more likely to come into contact with the elbows.

Float? Yikes! Sounds fun but hydroplaning in my sports sedan even gives me the willies.

As for the terrain, we'd most likely be on grass, varying sand hardness and then hard pack - in that order. Personally, I like the thought of of more "bouncy" ride. looks like we are leaning towards the BF more and more.

Thinking about Rips BF+ for sale (funny how things get listed at the perfect, or in this case, too tempting time!)

There's a new PL Outlaw that's hitting the shops here. Here's a link to the info thread: PL Outlaw Looks like a good machine with a better seat than the standard. I've got the Libre Vmax and absolutely love it. Midi tyres are good and slidy on grass and the beach. (you can undo the four bolts ad drop the axle off pretty quickly). Sysmic S2 is also a very nice buggy. Whatever you get, I would recommend you add some stirrups for your heels to sit in - if you hit a bump and your foot slips off the footpeg and touches the ground at speed, you can easily run over it and brake it. Ouch. My stirrups are seat belt webbing and also help me relax my legs too. Quite simple to put on.

Thanks John! Great tip on the foot straps. Not something we would have thought of until we were on crutches:o

So narrowed it down to big tires... Xr+ is out. Found some stuff on the libre truck that looks like a slightly more deeper seat than the PL BF. Anyone have any info on that?

Not looking to hit record speed here. Just want to have some fun, be comfy, ride where ever and live to kite another day. Like the freedom of the larger wheels, the depth of the seat, the wider rear axle and the ability to easily remove the rear axle (whether by unbolting or unhooking seat straps)

Getting closer! Where to get a libre? That is the next ?

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Originally posted by chudalicious LOVE the look and feel of the Libre but I don't think you can break it down enough to transport.

heres me setting up my libre from the back of my suzuki sx4.... should be plenty of room in an suv.... nothing else like buggying in a libre

i say go for it

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/gallery_image.php?action=view&...

Chudaliscious-

Really depends on how many buggies you want to own before you buy a Libre. Unless you're after freestyle, you'll end up there. Worth every penny and if you're patient a used one pops up once in a while. I bought mine new 7 or 8 years ago and never regretted it. It's my third buggy... had a flexi and a PL Race and neither compared.

My Libre fits nicely in a Volvo wagon after removing 4 axle bolts and a couple of straps. In a pinch I had it in the trunk of a Civic sedan. The PL strap-retention axle mounting sounds good until you're in terrain!

Happy hunting!

Chudaliscious you will find in our industry you get what you pay for in quality, comfort, durability. One example in our buggy and kite world was the P*n*ch kites or the Ro**v**le buggy.

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Originally posted by gilligan Chudaliscious- Really depends on how many buggies you want to own before you buy a Libre. Unless you're after freestyle, you'll end up there.

I think this should read .... Depends on how many buggies you want to own before you own a Apexx or MG Because that is where you will end up

A Libre is a good buggy, but still just a stepping stone on your way to the top :P

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Originally posted by DAKITEZ Quote: Originally posted by gilligan Chudaliscious- Really depends on how many buggies you want to own before you buy a Libre. Unless you're after freestyle, you'll end up there. I think this should read .... Depends on how many buggies you want to own before you own a Apexx or MG Because that is where you will end up A Libre is a good buggy, but still just a stepping stone on your way to the top :P

start with a PL Production buggy first and than after one season decide what you want to do.
some lean towards boards, and so head to the water.

do you travel? an apexx or any full race buggy is going to be expensive on flights.

are you thinking, beach cruising, racing, speed, freestyle?

your buggy will also depend on what kites you also end up with as well. unless your Dino in a full race buggy using his newbie kites - back at ya for the Vapor comment. =)

The PL Outlaw is customs from PL NZ (we dont have this instock yet, but can get them for ya - we do have the Ultra-lite though). AUS is lucky to have Craig, Jenny, and Matt over there developing.

There is also new develops in other brands too on buggies.

From all the above posts and the info gathered thus far, it looks like I am leaning towards a BF. Just want to have some fun. No sound barrier breaking, no record for the longest haul - really just fun done as safely as possible. Just caught now between the Libre and the PL and the $$$ diving the two. :puzzled:

Those that met us at WW know we are just getting our feet wet. We have MBS boards and have only tried that a few times. I am not a water fan so not going that way. Really just enjoy flying static, maybe start redirecting and getting some idea of how to jump a bit and can't wait to put it together with my snowboard skills come winter. So really, this whole buggy thing is not meant to break the bank, i just want to play wih the kites a bit more and a BF whatever looks like a bouncy good time :wee:

Got Flows to fly static, access and frenzy's to have fun on the boards and i don't see any other kites in my future cept maybe a FS S3 12m SOMEDAY as it just looks so freaking nice and the float - amazing if i ever get to that level.

My problem is I always want to start with the most expensive

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Originally posted by acampbell And they float, too. Ask Tridude about boddy dragging out to the sand bar with the kite overhead and the BF Bug floating behind. Still a picture I have to see.

yes they do float so if youre ever down this way..............low tides a rush on da bar...................