Hi all, got a Scorpion 7
Last month have the chance to shine in a desert (seen picture, La Rioja, Argentina) where the wind are always 25 knots with gust. Setup with PL Zero4 bar with 27 m. lines (later I tried with 22).
VCP removed

When I first tried to fly it I think that they need more wind (here in Buenos Aires, less tha 16 knots) was impossible to launch, the sides went together and fall from the sky.
But when I travelled to the deset with 25+ knots wind the problem continues!
I know how to fly my kites, fully pre-inflate, with a helper, without a helper...long lines, short lines. Straps full tied, full loose...

So I have to think that It cant fly without the VPC...?

Some have experience with "the 7"?
Im frustrate.

carlos
Got a Phantom15 and a Venom1 10, never a problem.
Sorry for my english

I know that there are people who've flown the Scorpion without VPC. It should still work. I don't know what the issue is though.

Trying to explain better...in my words.

First the kite refuse to launch, if that happen they become to jellyfish more and more...at final it clap (open-close-open) up to the moment that not open any more and fall from the sky.

in other oportunities it do the same but one side invert and do a candy and became a spiral (remember...25 knots and a kite in spiral!) have to eject.
Or the center invert and become a full invert...and have to eject too.

If some one have one, please send me the dim of all de VCP sys. please. Ill try to make it again.

thanks in advance.
carlos

It almost sounds like you forgot to close your deflate zipper? Is that possible?

hahha. It happens one time!
but not with this kite (with the Venom)

desert dirt!

Scorpions are by far the most difficult arc's to launch /fly ever (and only getting worse in smaller sizes).

I am not familiar with how the Scorpion behaves without the VPC. But with it they were very sensitive to how much the kite was trimmed. They have a smaller depower throw between full stall and inverting than other twinskins. It's much more of a balancing act with Scorps than with any other Arc.

Take extra care to not "choke" the kite (rear lines excessively tight can cause the kite to clap) or depowering the kite too fully (can make it invert) before the kite gets completely pressurized after launching.

Tugging on the frontlines a little will help it climb from a stall and open up again if it has "taco'd". But tugging too much with the Scorp can cause it to invert easily too.

Try using an inflator to pump it to where it almost throws you weight off before launch.

There were issues with the rear pigtails being too short with Scorpions. I am not sure if this was a problem with the 7's though. But you may need to add rear extensions if your rear lines are too short.

Of all the twinskins, Scorpions have been known for poor inflation and losing air quickly (especially in the smaller sizes) so maintaining pressure in the kite is even more critical. Check that the socks behind the vents are never twisted or trapped under a strap or stuck closed from static (this was also an issue back then) or water. Also check that there are no holes in the canopy, that the weeping holes and zippers are properly closed before launch. If any this happens the kite will have difficulty maintaining pressure.

you need to add extensions on the rear

And launch with trimmed ...

None in my quiver at the moment, however with that said. I've noticed that the Scorpions need "extensions, extensions, extensions!"

The Scorpions are for lack of a better term "tight", in the rear lines. Get some 6mm to 8mm amsteel or similar in a 300 to 320 mm length
Take the line and fold in half, forming a loop at one end, and tie knots about every 25mm. Make sure that both extension are exactly the same length.
The loop end will attach to the rear leader of the kite. Start with the knot closet to the kite, and test fly. You "should" find the sweet spot with in one or two knots from the loop.

Hope this helps. Wish I had a diagram to go with.

Bah they're maligned for no good reason IMHO :D flew my Scorp static only but they launched and flew real easy ... I want to get me some more to see what all the fuss is about they do need extensions "with the Zero7 bar" according to the arc-faq IIRC

Quote:

Originally posted by Kamikuza Bah they're maligned for no good reason IMHO :D flew my Scorp static only but they launched and flew real easy ... I want to get me some more to see what all the fuss is about they do need extensions "with the Zero7 bar" according to the arc-faq IIRC

I've been feeling the same way. You want higher aspect ratio for more efficiency? Sure get a Phantom if you can find one. Scorps are a lot more common and on average they're in better shape 'cause they're younger.

Do they need pigtails? I think maybe yes on the 16, but every time I fly I set them shorter. So far I have not felt the bottom lines were too tight. I don't think I even use pigtails on my 10. Either way, big, fat hairy deal. I think we can all tie two pieces of strong cord to equal lengths.

Inflation problems? I figured out what I was doing wrong after watching one Scorp launched by an experienced flier. Just have grab those upper lines and yank on it like you trying to kill it as you walk back. Lots of kites have special technical requirements.

What I would like to see is a Twinskin showdown with one or two of every Arc we can find in a series of races. After each race the top finishers swap kites with someone in the back of the pack to allow for variations in pilot skill. My guess is the winners would be the oversized Phantoms and Scorps.

Let's do this at JIBE 2011. :-)

Philip

Yep the Scorpions are tougher to launch than others, mind you the only other arc I've flown is my synergy. I've read that some don't recommend one to a first time arc flier, but I would in the sense that once you can get over the few issues that arise from them; I bet, you will be able to setup and launch/fly any other out there. They do need pigtails at least on the bigger ones. Mine came with them but did try flying it without and I felt it to be real restricting. The Scorpion likes the front line tension so much that I bet one could almost have the rear lines snap and it would still find its way to zenith. Get her as inflated as you can on the way up give some real good tugs on the front lines and all will be good. Anyway here is a link to some good info that might help you out:
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/mx5alan/arcs/ARCsetup_FAQ.htm

Remember, Im consolidate PL flyer. I know all the secrets of my kites (phantom15 and Venom10) and I tried to fly the Scorp in 25 knots, so Its full inflate at launch plus a helper.

ill try with extension in the rear, but really the kite look like he need extensions in the front lines! :ticking:
I usually "pump" the venom or the phantom to catch air when they were poor pre inflate, but was impossible with the Scorpion. (same thing happens when I tried a Synergy, dont like pumping from the front lines).

Thank you for the help.
carlos

Actually ... the last time I launched my 16 in light winds I was like "What's with the hating on the Scorps? This thing launches over and over without any fuss whatsoever" The only time I've muffed launches were when I hadn't trimmed the erm trim strap. Poor launches on the Synergy's have not been recovered by line pumping - stalls are though.

25 knots may not be enough for a 7m ...! I've had my 19 and 15 out in winds like that on the water and felt a tad underpowered ... but then, I am the fattest kiteboarder in Japan

the smaller scorpions (7sqm or 10 sqm) are different. even if you think you have prefilled it maximally, its not enough. you either need to use a akku quick pump / leaf blower: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG4Hf6WNpTc


or fill it using a ground anchor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8mv-u20eE8

i think thats because of
1. the thin profile of the scorpion
2. the scorpions generally loosing air more quickly.

Odd, the Scorp 10 was my first Arc and nobody ever told me to expect problems, and for that reason I had absolutely no troubles with it. I did hear about the pigtails and 6-8" on the rear did seem to help in lighter winds. Botched a couple of launches with it and it was my bad every time for not doing it exactly as told.

I was told later that the Scorp was designed close to the edge of what an Arc can do and is is not tolerant of any un-even stretching or dimensional characteristics being off by a few mm's

I've not flown a Scorp, much less a small one, but I do have an older 6m Hi-Arc that exhibits similar launching difficulties. It has a thin section profile and a lot more surface ahead of the front strap (it was before PL developed the concave leading egde or 'banana' to move the effective tow point further forward). So it needs 100% preinflation and a lot of finesse to get it launched without either tip-clapping and crashing or inverting and bowtieing. Once it's up there and filled, it rocks.

krumly