I've had the same kite for some time now and it's getting pretty close to being worn out, so looking to upgrade to something new and lot more effecient. I primarily use it for buggying (got a Libre with bigfoot lite tires) on hard beach sand.

I weigh about 210 lbs (=15 stone =95 kg) and looking to get something for the typical winds that we get around here - usually 9 to 12 mph or so. So what would be the right size performace kite for this? Also the fastest kite out there (cost does not matter)? Right now looking at Jojo, Libre and Ozone -which is the best of the 3? Are there better ones out there? Looking for performace first, ease of handling second.


Thanks

You were able to stop at ONE???? What is it , are you happy with it? Can you get a newer model? I still can't get over it, just ONE!!!

In those winds, I'd be flying my 8.3 Reactor II. It would have you running in the upper 20's to low 30's. An HQ Montana 9.5 or 12m would be some nice power as well. A large PL arc would be powered up in that too. 18-19m.

Quote:

Originally posted by luv2glyd Also the fastest kite out there (cost does not matter)? Thanks

You must have been saving for some time to make a statement like that, or you have very deep pockets.
Everyone I know that flys kites are poor
I do believe we need more info on what type of wind you fly in and where you fly.

Yes, I am loaded. hahaha! Just kidding. I would not pay $1M for one, of course, just looking for the best the market has to offer -whatever that may be.

I have been buggying on and off for a while with my "trainer" 5M HQ Crossfire. That's the one I learned to buggy on. Occasionaly use the 19M speed 2 that I've got for the water in slow winds, but as you can emagine it's slow for buggying with.

I'm in FL, USA, generally on the east coast of FL, with N and E onshore winds that are relatively stable for the most part. Somewhat narrow hard beaches with tide out (semi-soft otherwise), so need great up-wind performance.

To many kites on this forum for sale to speak of.
Look in the for sale section and see whats available. If you have clean winds any race kite is a good deal, I can think of a few Combats right off the bat.
If you fly a crossfire than you can handle a race kite. A 5m to 7m FB would work well.

Where are you in E. FL? I fly on Jekyll Island, GA, 30 miles north of the FLA border.

"best of what's out there" is pretty subjective and you will get lots of impassioned opinions.

Now that we know you are in the buggy, Bob's idea of the 8.3m Reactor is a good one. The Reactors are my go-to kites for fixed bridle and the RII 8.3 is a very versatile size. Fast, stable, pretty easy to fly and goes upwind well. With that and a 5.5m, I have a pretty wide wind range.

For de-power, my phantoms (18m and 15m) are hard to beat. So safe and easy to fly gust munchers and also go upwind well. The new Phantom II' are due out soon (RIGHT MARIJN??).

For fast buggy kites, there are only two real options for you. The Yakuza GT or the Peter Lynn Vapor. There is also the new RM coming out from Jojo, but I have not been able to give it a good shakedown against the other two as of yet. Hope to give it a couple runs if it ever comes available.

Right now the Peter Lynn Vapor holds the world record for speed. The Yakuza GT is just as fast and (in my opinion) the build quality and materials are a slight bit higher on the Ozone. As far as speed goes, it really comes down more to the actual pilot and his/her skills than any limitations of either of these two kites. They are both top models and have the ability to outperform nearly any pilot who wants to put them to the test.

The Vapor and the Yakuza GT are top performers and command top pricing. As you said that money was not an issue, I would highly recommend either one of these.

Hope this helps.

the vapors are fast, indeed... if i were putting one up in 9-12, id prob want the 6.5 (i think thats a size), but i also fly on hardpack beach... grass or softer sand would get the 7.8

*edit.... thats what i would start with, but in the buggy i usually err on the side of too big (ill learn one day), i would prob not buy just one, though... the same $ can get several lower performance kites for varying winds

12m Speed 2 in 9 to 12 is sweet................

Love the Vapor's, YaS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s and Jojo RM+'s....All are great kites with tons of power, speed and upwind mobility!

hands down the Vapor ... tested and proven. i would go with the 7.8 or the 6.5m as Dylan stated.

second would be the Libre Sprint, and if you went with the OZ Yak GT, you'll need to size up one. Nitros and Combats would be a good choice, but are quickly becoming out dated and are under going replacement.

at the level of race kites its basically down to rider skills, or how much "balls" you have to drive for max speed in a straight line.

Quote:

Originally posted by luv2glyd Yes, I am loaded. hahaha! Just kidding. I would not pay $1M for one, of course, just looking for the best the market has to offer -whatever that may be. I have been buggying on and off for a while with my "trainer" 5M HQ Crossfire. That's the one I learned to buggy on. Occasionaly use the 19M speed 2 that I've got for the water in slow winds, but as you can emagine it's slow for buggying with. I'm in FL, USA, generally on the east coast of FL, with N and E onshore winds that are relatively stable for the most part. Somewhat narrow hard beaches with tide out (semi-soft otherwise), so need great up-wind performance.

Wow, I'm surprised you were happy with a 5M kite for so long. I fly in the same conditions (usually in St. Augustine, FL), I'm 165 lbs and my old goto kite was 4.75m FB. It *never* pulled me out of the bug at the beach. It worked well, but if I weighed 210 I think 6.5m in a FB would be easy to handle.

I found that an excess of power on a depower kite is mighty nice at the beach when you hit the soft stuff. You feel the drag on the wheels, but the buggy just tears on through with all that extra juice. Punch through the soft patch, get back on the hard stuff and you are zooming again.

Philip

Quote:

Originally posted by luv2glyd Looking for performace first, ease of handling second. Thanks

For upwind performance the Libre Spirit is hard to beat. Down wind is also good and top speed is also good. Material and workmanship are top class but the Fabric seems to be a magnet for sand and it looses it's brightness after about a year.

For Real top speed the GT is hard to beat BUT you have to be able to fly it, not an easy task. I would say the majority of the people out there (including me) could not bring the GT to its limit. Like Rip said if it should be a GT then take one size bigger than you think.
Material and workmanship are the best in class, But the kite is also pretty heavy compaired to the others in the same class. The Fabric will hold a long time (big plus).

The Vapor OOOOYYYAAA My Favorite!! Peter Lynn did thier homework on this one!
It is not the best in one catagory (up/down wind or top speed) but it is a mixture of everything you need.
What good does it help to go up wind fast when you loose on the straight away? or be really fast but you cannot handle it.
The Vapor can do it all very good and thats why it keeps winning. up wind, down wind, very Stable at high speeds, all are things that lead to its success.
The new Material is almost water proof and feels really nice, Have to wait and see how long it holds, bridal lines need to be checked and corrected after the first few hours flight, no big deal you just have to know it. Workmanship is good but for the price I would expect a little bit better, doesn't seem to effect the kite though.
If you are looking for used Rip has a set for sale (old Fabric) or my set (New Fabric) is also looking for a new home.

The best thing would be to go out and test all 3 and find out which one works best for you (I'll bet 20€ it will be the Vapor)

Hope this helps

race kites need to light, i could do without the bells and whistles of mylar this and than. the vapor is the lightest race kite on the market, making the 16m a power engine in the lightest of winds. sorry for the rave, but I really like my 16m on shorties ... as it was my go to kite all summer long.

speak of old fabric vs new fabric ... at least mine is in custom colours. ONE OF A KIND (the top skin has no white), so you should buy mine first. hehehe, just playing with you.

keep practicing Chris ... see you at 24 Hour for Round 2 - Yes You will eat my sand again!!! Team Pink Daskirtz!!!

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Originally posted by ripsessionkites speak of old fabric vs new fabric

The diffrence between the two Fabrics is so nominal that it really does not make a diffrence wich one you have. The new Fabric seems to handle water better but how often do you kite in a rain storm? and the weight diffrence is also so small that only a few Pilots (if any) in the world would notice the diffrence. so you are in good shape with both Fabrics!

Cool! Thanks for the advice everyone. I have not decided on a kite yet, but probably will try out something in the 6 to 6.5M range to start with and then get one in the 9M range or so later on.

awindofchage said: "Right now the Peter Lynn Vapor holds the world record for speed" which record is that?

I live in Mickey-Mouse land: Orlando, so when I get out it's usually to Cocoa, New Smyrna, St. Augustine (long drive there, though) or Treasure Island. Angus, a friend said that where you are is good for flying in any wind except off-shore? Is that true?? Wide beach?


PBC, with the winter being here, it's mostly form the N - besides the N side of New Smyrna and St Augustine beaches, are there any other good spots for N wind?

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Originally posted by awindofchange Right now the Peter Lynn Vapor holds the world record for speed.

Who is 2nd and 3rd, if they exist?

Here is the definitive list of speed performances. Kite used isn't listed. There are accounts of some of the record setters at the bottom of the page.

http://pic7.piczo.com/Popeyethewelder?g=44407598

Than Combat is 2nd and YoYo is 3rd.

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Originally posted by JAE Than Combat is 2nd and YoYo is 3rd.

if you want to be technical

Arie beat his own record, in the previous year it was a Libre Spirit (122) and this year was the Vapor (133).

Pansh is #6 :wink2:

Check this out on my blog :
http://xxtremeozzy.blogspot.com/

Yesterday Arie (world record holder) and me did some speed runs here in Holland on a soaking wet beach.... I did a 99.1 km/h and arie a 98.7 km/h , guess which kite we used ?

cheers,
Ozzy

I really would like Bison, Eli, Jimmy or Luk to come and break the record again using the New JoJo RM+2, Libre Spirit or the Peter Lynn Vapor. I am trying to set dates for next year at Alvord dry lake in Oregon. With around 7 miles wide and 14 miles long it will be a good test area for speed runs. Now if I can get back out to the shop and finish the streamliner buggy as I am under house arrest until my knee heals.

Quote:

Originally posted by jellis I really would like Bison, Eli, Jimmy or Luk to come and break the record again using the New JoJo RM+2, Libre Spirit or the Peter Lynn Vapor. I am trying to set dates for next year at Alvord dry lake in Oregon. With around 7 miles wide and 14 miles long it will be a good test area for speed runs. Now if I can get back out to the shop and finish the streamliner buggy as I am under house arrest until my knee heals.

let me know the dates, as some of us will join you out a Alvord. Peter Lynn and Matt Bedford will also be coming over once dates are firm. ive been in contact with Morrie trying to find out the "best" time to head there.

Im hoping we can hold a few races there as well in the future.

I have been trying to call you for a while and need to let you know what and when. If you get the chance I am home (LOL) for a while.

Quote:

Originally posted by jellis I have been trying to call you for a while and need to let you know what and when. If you get the chance I am home (LOL) for a while.

sorry never got a call

but you can u2u, skype, email, smoke sign me anytime

im busy all the time but will get a reply to you.

Hey Ozzy, where do I score a set of wheels like that in the US?
http://xxtremeozzy.blogspot.com/

Haan Disc Wheels? I've got a Libre hardcore; is there a certain way to fit them on? What other hardware do I need?

There is a Haan distributor in the USA. I believe there isn't much you have to do since they come in 20mm. At least that's what Talon told me when I'm ordering my rims. Just so you know they run from 300 to 500 per rim. Talon / Excel are a little cheaper over here for some reason but are the same. De Dutch = Haan, UK = Talon

Since you have a libre hardcore you can already camber them without getting angled bolts.

Cool! Thanks - will look them up.