Now that I have the time to respond to some of the comments resulting from the question I posted, first let me apologize for not following protocol by posting within the thread in question. My bad. Please chalk it up to my inexperience. And just for the record, hotel WiFi’s suck!

I myself have been kiting for a little over a year and read this forum whenever time permits. It is an incredible source of information I recommend often. But having very little to offer its obviously skilled regulars, I have not bothered registering until now.

My post was not to question Rip’s contribution to the forum, but whether the offering crosses the line with reference to Rule 2.1. In my mind it does. It doesn’t matter if he is making anything from the transactions or not. This is a very large quantity of new, unused product for which payment is required. That payment is being passed on to the original designer/manufacturer. My business background labels that as a commercial offering. The very fact that “dealer pricing” is offered also suggests this to be a commercial offering.

It is very interesting to note that a large number of the other resellers have failed to come to Rip’s defense. Could it be they feel his offering will have some effect on their sale of new product but are silent for fear of alienating a friend?

I don’t think it matters that the arcs are out of production, especially to someone looking to move up to a larger kite and see this as a really cheap way to do it. We’re all perusing the “For Sale” forum looking for a deal on our next kite.

There was also a reference to C-quads that are yet to come. There are still dealers with C-quads in inventory, and I’ve been told that there is still stock available from the manufacturer. So in spite of its age, a listing of C-quads would be an even more flagrant disregard for forum policy.

From a PR point of view, Ripsession Kites has just hit the proverbial jackpot. And sadly at the expense of other dealers here who also make an equally important contribution to this forum and to kiting in general.

pbc:
“You're just jealous of other people's ability to use a non-commercial forum for commercial end.”

Jealousy would imply my own want to use the forum for a commercial end. I'm not in the kite business, but thanks for confirming my point.

“To me the key thing is, has Rip's thread intruded into kite stuff that interests me? The answer is clearly no”

I can accept that as your opinion. But are you a kite dealer? Does this type of offering by the competition effect your bottom line?

Leojim:
“It appears to me that rip is not using this as a for profit venture, but as a service to fellow members of the PKF.”

Please re-read paragraph 3 above.

“The intial comment by "notreallyme", a NEW member as of TODAY is nothing but a phony attack IMO. Further, I saw no where that rip had "200 plus" kites for sale.”

Please re-read Rip’s original posting. 100+ F-Arcs 1200’s plus 100+ F-Arcs 1600’s plus 9 - Phantom 18’s totals to at least 209 where I went to school.

“Back to the yard (closet) sale. Someone mentioned the "C-Quad" kites that might be in the far corners of the closet. NOW that is some interesting looking kite!!!”

This was stated in the original post, but has been removed. See my paragraph 6 above.

Bladerunner:
“We have this thing called HST here 15% tax he is helping us avoid.”

Yes HST sucks. Someone has to pay for the services Canadians receive, who better than the recipients? HST is a political rather than a business issue.

However, helping others avoid paying HST is a problem to be dealt with between Rip and Revenue Canada. There’s only one winner on that front.

shaggs2riches:
“The fact that one simple douchebag came on here and stirred the pot was able to bring any question to this forums moderators ability to do their job and Rips intentions just disturbs me.”

I’ve never been called a douchebag before. A douche bag yes. Of course name calling is something I would expect from an eighth grader. And don’t underestimate Rip’s intentions. Seems he is always the first to let a poster know what he has in stock that’s ready to ship. Quite shrewd actually. Maybe the rest of the dealers should be as bold.

“Yes the validity of the question is acceptable but really why the hell not report the thread and ask the question to those in charge instead of attacking a valued contributor to this forum.”

Postings that are flagrantly in violation of published rules should be reported and dealt with by the moderators. For the most part, a forum of this type can be self regulating, using member integrity as a method of policing. I merely expressed a concern that a line was being crossed. As you can see, some agree and some don’t.

Kamikuza:
“Do not use this forum to advertise commercial businesses or services, link to commercial web sites, or list promotions or products for sale by dealer or manufacturer.”

Perhaps we will have to agree to disagree. Maybe the rule itself makes conflicting statements. I’ll leave that to the legal minds. But to me the bold print above is what I see. Rip, the dealer, or PL the manufacturer. It doesn’t matter who listed the products, one of them is receiving a commercial benefit from a non-commercial forum.

And thanks for not calling me any names like shaggs2riches. I hate that.

Maven454:
“I'm not trying to say that rip is doing something wrong, just that the question itself is reasonable.”

Geokite:
“Disappointing to see lots of people putting their own benefit from this sale above the possible violation (?) of the forum rules. If it benefits them, heads go in the sand...”

A couple of quotes worth repeating, that are tactful yet make a point.

Perhaps moderators could be asked to clarify what is and isn't acceptable. I don't want to have to wade through piles of commercial postings looking for my deal of the day.

wow

...Dude...

Don't fix what ain't broke. End of story. Of all the wrong-doings in the world, of everything you could have chosen to nit-pick... it had to be this. Well alright. If you're unhappy, nobody is forcing you to use this forum. Go be a vigilante somewhere else, leave Rip alone.

Maybe I should go troll a forum for the Humane Society or a foundation against world starvation. It would seem less ridiculous than this.

Thank You for coming out and explaining yourself. I can apologize for coming out so harsh. This forum has been attacked on a few occasions almost in a similar manner as your comment came out. To not give any input ever on a site and then out of the blue come out and attack a persons integrity is a really rough way to make an appearance. I would have felt that way no matter who the seller being questioned was. As you already know this is a relatively open and welcoming community. We look forward to anyone no matter what skill level joining up, and you are no different. I can see your opinion on the matter and maybe a clarification should be given. I still see nothing wrong with it but everyone is welcome to their opinion. So if you will accept my apology I would like to welcome you to PKF and hope that you will become a more active member, like you said this place is full of knowledge, but we only get there by learning from one another sharing experiences.

Shaggs

Ugh, More dirty laundry. I'll get up on my soap box briefly then step off.

If you have a problem with a posting, doesn't matter if it's a "for sale", or "Kite buggy", etc report the post, bottom line.

Don't hide behind a just registered name, u2u, etc.

I've had issues with people/postings and have either reported the post or stepped up and called them on it using this user name.

If the mods feel that the post in question violated a rule I have faith that they will take care of the issue.

On that note let the wind blow and buggies roll!

So much for closing the evening out with some mellow catching up on PKF threads.

CSA beat me to it, but I will go one step further and say, it not even worth "calling someone on a post".... regardless of what userid you use.

Just report the post and be done with it. There is no reason to get into a public flame war or even a U2U one as the latter has occassionally spilled back into public threads.

Just for clarification, there are not legions of moderators asleep at the wheel or otherwise.

The PKF administrator is PKF/Doomwheels/Bob Childs... the owner, the person who writes the check to pay for the bandwidth, and the head bottle washer. Dean is also listed as a moderator.

In his own words: "Thx for the offer guys but we'll not be adding new mods at this time. Everyone is able to help mod by reporting abuse using the report button. It also helps to resist replying to spam threads. The forum is checked daily by at least one admin but there may be times when an issue must simmer for a couple days. Any problem can be resolved retroactively."

I take that to mean that if you have problems with any posting for whatever reason, reporting is still the preferred method of addressing it. Reporting always allows you to leave a comment with your reasoning.

If clarification on the rules are needed, discussion, debate, and speculation is pointless and will just breed ill-feelings. Bob is the final arbitrator. His sandbox, his bandwidth, his rules.

Record heating oil prices and some unexpected house repairs would have disqualified me from the original sale thread even if I was so inclined. I have no personal stake in this one way or another. Just hate to see more piss and bile if it can be avoided.

ATB,
Sam

Not even worth a reply

6.1. If you have a complaint about our staff or an abusive member, please inform us by sending a U2U to PKF - do NOT post complaints in the general forums. When reporting abuse, send as much detail as possible with an indication of which policy you believe the member has broken.

:wow:And I thought my posts were long

Quote:

Originally posted by kteguru :wow:And I thought my posts were long

Wow, still famous!!! I love it!!! Damn it's really lonely at the top and I could use some company.

For the record other dealers didn't seem to have issues with it. The top dealers of this forum have sent me private emails.

Again if you feel there is an issue, report it.

I see my posting here bothers you a lot. So to make you happy I'll refrain from this site.

I have my thoughts, and lets just say I know who you are. It's funny you know so much about HST, do you live in Vancouver?

RIP is out.

Email me if you ever need help with any kite or gear.

Lastly for thr record I do not need the forum for kite sales. That's what my website and shops are for.

amazing..........................you know grinch youre just about to make me use my last stay out of being banned card but I wont give you the satisfaction. Were you you bullied as a kid? Were you repeatedly locked in a closet without dinner or do you just enjoy stirring up crap and ruining "good" karma? Ive been on PKF for awhile and have seen nothing like this. Im taking a break from here, permanent maybe who knows but Ill see you all at JIBE. If youre in Chaz and the forecast is good you know where to find me. Its been real, and fun but DEF time to go..................adios amigos y feliz navidad......................

just a thought.............................................

are alias usernames aloud on this forum? i know on vertually every forum i use, the mods take a dislike to people with serveral user names. if they ban one then the person just uses the other. i dont know who you are NOTREALLYME but its obvious that you are using an alias to stir the pot. imo this ID should be banned and your original ID should also be banned aswell.