I think it's time to move this discusison here.

I have very little time on my C quads. The 6.5 sits unflown. They really should get flown more because they are amazing kites !

The stiff frame makes playing with the AOA a whole new game ! So enjoyable and so rewarding ! Just the right amount of break when at the edge and you find a turbo boost like you have never felt on a foil! :wee:

I have not flown a Rev Powerblast only my 1.5 SLE but I expect a similar feel ? The shape of the C quad would probably make jumping better than Rev ?

The 4.2 needs a bit of wind before it is happy but has a pretty good range with so much AOA control.

The 8.5 flies very early and has lots of power / depower.

Yes, I find them a bother to repack but am getting the hang of it now. Yes packing seems a likely time to bust rods.

So far I have only had a spar punch through the sleeve as far as damage. PL have spars so you won't be stuck.

This kite really likes an assistant . You can launch and land on your own but a helper is best.

I bought mine to get a taste of PL history. I was pleasantly surprised at their unique , rewarding nature. A desire to keep them in excellent shape was driven by the lack of availabilaty. If there are a buch of these in the closet waiting to come out then I will start to fly mine more.

A am NOT complaining but I bought my Farc , Cquads and Peel because I thought the were rare kites with unique flying characteristics. What's NEXT a Peel push ?? !! ( actually Fran may still have some ? )

So much for " investing " in kites. When will I ever learn ? ;-)

If our chance to buy these kites has not been deterred by recent events and they are reasonably priced I would recommend one to anybody who already has flying experience on handles and is looking for something completely different to play with. 4.2 is a nice size. Can't speak for the 6.5 ( yet ) Or the 8.5 is a cheap low wind engine.

Nah, my Rev 1.5 versus PowerBlast is quite different IMO both in how they fly and how they pull. My mistakes the first day(s) flying the PB was trying to fly like a regular Rev. The PB makes MONSTER power in like, no wind at all and without a way to harness them, it's a mad arm workout :D
... hmm now I want a 8.5 too :D

Say, if you're interested in arcana I got a Rebble you might like

Yup, regular Rev and Cquad have little in common. I must try Buggeyed's Powerblast .

I think a Cquad could be considered a poor mans powerblast ?

Dunno ... from what I remember, they look a whole lot more simple but a whole lot more brutal
Do they fly on a bar or handles?

Nice bit of info there Blade. Thanks. The C-Quad seems like an interesting kite no doubt. Gee, such a hard kite to set up! Lay out the lines/handles, take the kite out of the bag, let go and POP...instant kite. Hard to beat that.
Sounds like the prefered control device is handles, long handles. No doubt AOA is where it's at with this kite since the spars help make it semi-ridged. It would appear that the main drawbacks are spars that can break and different than "normal" flying characteristics. I know if they are reasonably cheap I'll spring for one if nothing more than for a new learning experience.

I started out buggying on the C-Quads and Sky Tigers. C-Quads are absolutely awesome. Here is a page I put together about a zillion years ago on packing up the C-Quads. It may help someone out.

http://www.awindofchange.com/lessons/lesson-cquad.html

My C-Quad quiver (sold quite a while ago)
1.4 m
2.2 m
4.2 m
6.3 m (my first ever power kite)
8.5 m (my first ever kite surfing kite)
10.5 m
12.5 m (monster of a beast that I got used, took about 4 months to re-tune the bridles. Was used for kite surfing in winds less than 8mph)

Good move on this Bladerunner.

Yep, C quads are a blast. The only Rev I own is a Supersonic - it was my first 4-line kite. Like learning to drive in a race car. Then I got my first 4-line FB foil. This made made flying C-Quads pretty straightforward. Saying the C-quads 2.2 -4.2 m fly like a detuned Rev Supersonic or Shockwave (the 'Speed' series) is fair. I've heard the Rev Powerblast 2-4 and 4-8 are like traction kite versions of the Speed series - Kent may be able to offer input. So now imagine buggying with a big 4-line stunt kite.

Coiling them to pack isn't so hard - you coil bandsaw blades the same way, which I've been doing for decades. It becomes a kinestethic thing after you do it a few times. If you can't get OEM PL spars, places like Kite Studio and Hang 'Em High have equivalent rods and tubes that work fine, along with ferrules and other fittings.

Long handles are the ticket for me. PL sold a bar that looked a lot like mounbtain bike riser bars. Brakes went to the bar end, and front lines were set closer to the middle. This made trailing edge/brake inputs larger than main canopy CP changes to left or right from the fronts. Think of 2 line FB foils - turning is executed by re-orienting CP to cause the kite to roll and yaw. Add control to the trailing edge with rear lines and you increase the manueverability. Handles allow playing with that that in a more nuanced fashion than any bar.

I find launching them easy. Set it up like a stunt kite. Lay out the lines, with the handles staked at the brakes. Lay the kite on its back and hook up the brakes, then the fronts. Stand it on the tips, leaning back. Walk back to the handles and pop it up. Like a stunt kite, the hassle is if you land it facing you on its belly. A lot of finesse and you may get some wind under it to to flip up. Or you'll bury the nose in sand or snow and have to walk out and re-set. Reverse launch is super simple and sweet - fly it up in reverse and spin to one side or the other.

They require attention at the zenith - you can depower down to finger tip control, but it won't sit there without attention.

Sorry for ramblin' but I like 'em...

krumly

I should put my GoPro on my helmet and take out the PB 4-8 and y'all can watch my forearms explode

My Shockwave has almost no pull - the 1.5 pulls more in high winds. At least, compared to the 4-8. If you can get the 4-8 in the air it's going to rip your arms out.

The handles on the PB 4-8 are double bent, like \_/ and you gotta find the balance point cos you'll NEVER muscle it around like you can a F.B. ...!

Kami - but you can feather the PB 4-8 to nothing in an instant, so your forearms don't explode, no? My C-quads 2.2, 3.2, and 4.2 can be depowered almost instantly. They don't depower as fast as the Supersonic, but they do have more mass.

krumly

Somebody get Kent , Morrie and .... from the original Cquad days to add some more experience to this review.
A few PKF members flew these 1st time around. Markite? Rip?

I only fly c-quads, I have the 2.2, 3.2 and 4.2.

Packing c-quads away is incredibly easy, just takes a few times to put it away. I have a video here of packing them away.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT2uQwEyk1c

That was literally the first time I'd packed that kite away in 6 years or so, so that's not rehearsed! :P

Sam

Sam,

Great video and great username.

So is there a good story behind the username?

Philip

Nice vid Sam, you made that look easy.

Some old school C-quad action...

I haven't flown my PB 4-8 next to the C-Quads side by side but from my experience with both, they do fly fairly similar. The 4-8 is a beast to fly and does take some time to master the controls. You can dump the power out of the Rev's with a flick of the hands which is very nice. This is similar to the C-Quads but the Rev's will have better depower and will dump power faster. Both of these kites cut upwind like a razor, the upwind that the C-Quads and Rev's have are pretty much unmatched by any foil that I have flown. The Yakuza GT's and Vapors are the only other kites that I have flown that come even close to these in upwind. For speed the Rev's seem to have a slight advantage. The C-Quads have a bigger advantage when out on the edge of the window, you can pull the brakes in on them and it is like hitting a turbo charger, even when the kite is parked on the very edge. This is one of the reasons they have such awesome upwind ability. The Powerblast 2-4 turns about like the C-Quads do, crank the brakes and it flips around, nearly on its own axis. The 4-8 is a little different monster. To get it to turn you have to pull hard on one side first, then crank the brake line hard (you gotta get physical with it but when you do it obeys nicely). Once you get this mastered then it is easier to fly but if you don't have good Revolution skills, the 4-8 can be a handful to learn and could be very frustrating.

Ok, going from memory here so take the power output with a grain of salt....
Power output on the 4-8 would be comparable to the C-Quad 6.3, the 2-4 would be comparable to the 4.2. The 4-8 produces about as much power as my 9 meter Blade or my 8.3 Yakuza GT but is faster through the window and I can get much more speed with it. It is also more maneuverable with quicker turns and nearly zero chance of luffing. Downside to the 4-8, like Kami said, it has a very sensitive line between max power and depower. Getting your hands set perfectly on the handles takes a lot of time to learn and rocking the handles even 1 inch will change the power output of the kite a lot! It is very sensitive until you really get the feel of it.

During NABX a few years ago, myself and Joe Hadzicki from Revolution were out on our Powerblast 4-8's buggying well into sunset in nearly zero winds. Nobody else had anything that would even stay in the air cuz the winds were so light - but we were buggying and having a blast of a time! When we packed up and headed into camp, several were amazed and asked us how we were even doing that... Kinda funny. On the dry lake bed here, you can buggy with the 4-8 in 1-2 mph winds, max wind I have had the 4-8 out in is somewhere around 12-15 mph (est.). As Kami has mentioned, the 4-8 can pull like a freight train and will build you up some very nice popeye forearms. lol

I really enjoy the C-Quads and the Rev's. They make some very awesome buggy engines and some amazing power. My favorite size C-Quad was the 4.2. When the winds were right then I never had a bad day on that kite. I still would not hesitate to fly some C-Quads even today and would welcome the chance.

For a while, there was a rumor that PL was going to re-design the C-Quad with a segmented leading edge which would allow the kite to fold up into a very small package about the size of a cue stick case. I was very excited about this but it never came to pass. That would have solved one of the biggest issues with the C-Quad in that it doesn't pack down very small and is cumbersome to haul around. It would also make repairing the leading edge much easier and less expensive as you would only have to replace one or two segments instead of the entire leading edge. **MJ, hint hint....

Cost on the C-Quads was awesome. You could pick up the 4.2 for around 250 bucks (kite only) - remember this would be power and performance equivalent of a 6-8 meter FB race foil.

Anyways, thats some info from my experiences (memory)....if there is anything else specifically you would like then let me know and I will be more than happy to help.

Zero Gee thanks for the video. That was great!

Philip

Yes, nice find on the video Zero Gee. Let's see - C-Quads came on the market about '98? And they're old school. Bet that video isn't 10 years old. I'm real old school at 49

krumly

1998 was just before my first kid was born. No wonder I knew nothing about the C-Quads. I built my last kite--a 3M Sputnik in Fall of 1998. I buggied with it at the beach shortly after I built it. I did not fathom then how little use that kite would see over the next 10 years.

It's really good to be back in the sport now that my youngest is 8. Thank you all for getting me up to speed. Thanks as well for the history lesson.

Philip

We've REALLY missed you all of those years!

We received our first pre-production C-quad in the summer of 1998 shortly after our N-Gen arrived from Peter.

It was quite a challenge working with a kite that had no lines, no handles and no instructions of how to set it up or fly it. The C-quad was always a very forgiving kite in gusts and the only issue I ever had was relaunch when buggying and the initial rod connectors that were used.

I guess it's time to get them out of the bag and fly them once again.

Quote:

Cost on the C-Quads was awesome. You could pick up the 4.2 for around 250 bucks (kite only) - remember this would be power and performance equivalent of a 6-8 meter FB race foil.

interesting! so - a 8 sqm c-quad would match a 10 sqm PL vapor ?
and c-quads have some amount of depower ? also very good ! i am thinking now of getting a c-quad for low wind kite surfing ! no pumping, no setup time, just power in light winds.. that would be amazing !
i can get a 8 sqm c-quad for around 110 euro -- not much to risk then after these nice reviews here.

what about flying a c-quad on a normal kitesurfbar ? is that possible ? or would it then turn slow?

i havent touched a C-Quad or Bean in years.

dunno if it would beat a Vapor, but we can always put one to the test. with the single skin its pretty aerodynamic and uber light even with spars.
a few guys back than used these for kiteboarding in lighter winds. its got pockets for the old school noodles / inflatable inserts.

can be flown on handles or fixed four line bar. probably with even messing around you could use a depower bar.

the only con i have is trying to get it back into the bag, just like me today trying to get a 3 sec Quechua tent back into the bag.

thanks rip for infos!
i think i will simply buy one and try it out. i know, they are feather light - see my compiled kite weigt list: http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2360753

though i have a 7.7 twister, that might deliver almost similiar power, its a really bad idea to dunk an opencell kite into water.
but with the c-quad in flat waters, i could practice kiting (still a beginner on the water) and if i drop it, i just walk out and relaunch. easy drying too. oh did i mention? NO PUMP

Loved the C-Quads. My friend got good kitesurfing with them. Always tons of low wind power. Wish I had a couple to tear up the waves on today.
-Scott

I kitesurfed with them many years ago, early 2000, with flotation tubes...lol
I can assure you one thing, in a race you do not want to be behind one, they have the worlds worst wash and all kites behind them crash,burn,bow tie....lol

C-Quads still perform quite OK compared to actual tube kites. i found this link, showing lift/drag ratios:

http://www.kites.tug.com/andy/

so the c-quad has a L/D around 5.
an expert told me, that even todays tubekites only have a L/D of 5 - 5.5.
so - the C-quad might still be a nice light wind no pump kite to consider !
tough the amount of depower is quite limited: 1:1.6 . flysurfers speed3 have a 1:9 depower (at least they say so on their homepage)