I was looking at the 13m frenzy for low wind preformance,
ultimately I'd round it out with another 9m Frenzy(I'll have a sabre 2 9.5 to practice with shortly), then maybe a 7 Montana.

Otherwise I was looking @ the 15m charger, which I'd ultimately round out with another 19m for low winds.

Flying arc looks sick, but I wanted to know if there is some sort of tradeoff. I've noticed they don't seem as fast in some videos, but I think that was largely user error.

I'll be dropping the dough in a few weeks or so; so I'm just looking for some food for thought.

As much as i like my arcs they are not low wind engines- but are really hard to beat when the wind is going
Scott

So your foil quiver could essentially become a 13m, 9.5m, 9m and 7m, is that correct?

I can't speak to arcs because I don't fly them but there seems to be a lot of overlap in the quiver you are looking to build for foils. How much do you weigh?

Why would you want a 9m Frenzy if you have a 9.5 sabre on the way? Might be better suited skipping, the 9, selling the 9.5 and buying a 4m Access, 5m Apex or 4.5m Yeti for those nuking days . There may be a slight gap between the 13 and 7, but it wouldn't be much. Or you could go 13m Frenzy, 8m Outlaw / Yeti / 7.5 Montana, 4-5m Access, Apex, Yeti to cover the range with three kites instead of 4. There is going to be a good bit of overlap between your 9s and a 7.

I was going to resell the 9.5 sabre to a friend once I got proficent enough with it.
The 7m is an afterthought. I'm really not worried about it right now
Honestly I was thinking,

13m Frenzy, 15m charger
and just sit on a 2 kite quiver (possibly keeping the sabre) for the rest of the winter.

I know the 13 is a heavy hitter but I'd only use it in lower wind until the charger kicked in

As much as I love ARC's and the Peter Lynn brand, if you are going to be riding nearly all the time on snow, I would suggest open cell foil like the Frenzy's or Montana's. They are just plain easier to use as far as launching and landing, safety's, setup etc...

If you do choose to go with the Peter Lynn Twinskins you won't be sorry at all, they are awesome kites and work exceptionally well, especially for gusty conditions.

For multi surfaces such as land, snow and water, the Twinskins really are the best and only choice. For strictly snow, I would go Frenzy.

btw kent why don't you carry montanas?
I thought it was strange you'd carry beamers, but not the montana line as well.

I was planning on using you as my distributor, so I'm excited for that prompt ass service.

When are the 2012 frenzies coming in?

Something just caught my eye - I wouldn't put a 13m Frenzy and a 15m Charger in the same lineup for comparison. You'll find that the 13 is way more powerful than the Charger if I'm not mistaken. I'd say a 19m might be about equivalent to the 13m bridled foil? If not still a bit more powerful. Check out the comparative projected areas for a bit of a closer comparison.

As for Arc VS open cell foil - ditto above. If it's exclusively snowkiting you're looking for, stick to the open cell foils.

not sure what your quiver is going to be this season...is it going to be...
1- sabre and either a charger or frenzy
2 - no sabre, and both the changer and frenzy.
The reason i ask is cause if it's 2, then a charger 12 should be workable too, and even extend that range further (not 100% sure of the 13 frenzy's top end though). The 12 charger has a very big range.

I can echo what has been said.

I love my Arcs once they are up but they can be a bit of a PITA setting up and taking down compared to the flop and fly nature of the open cell.

A 13m Frenzy will power you much earlier than a 15m Charger or any twin skin.

I am actually looking for something similar to the 13m Frenzy for low wind, and easy setup on snow( the 10.8 Reactor could use more range ) I will NOT be saying goodbye to the 15m arcs!

Tough choice! The only great answer is buy both ! Then perhaps a 10m arc (or 7 frenzy ) to cover the high gusty stuff?

Quote:

Originally posted by Bladerunner I am actually looking for something similar to the 13m Frenzy for low wind, and easy setup on snow

Well then, have you seen this http://www.live2kite.com/gin-kites-eskimo-iii-high-performan...

Awesome kite, super stable and great price. I've called 2 times on this kite over the past two years but never brought myself to buy it as I can ride my 10m down to 10mph and then below that I love my 6m Bego.

But its been tempting me for quite some time and at almost half the price of a Frenzy its a super deal. Build quaity easily as good if not better then the better known brands and phenomenal safety system.

Bottom end on the Chargers is much improved IMO over the previous models ...

Quote:

Originally posted by Kamikuza Bottom end on the Chargers is much improved IMO over the previous models ...

HMMM

I never gave my 19m Charger enough time ?
I am finding my 18m Phantom is my 1st arc providing power? A truly enjoyable kite!
I think I get a better bottom end out of my 15m Syn over my Charger but that is surely because I am so used to it. I am still trying to come to terms with the Charger? Don't think I have it tuned nor do I fly it to it's best advantage? :puzzled:

Yeah i was gonna buy new. After hearing everyones thoughts I think it's gonna be 13m/9m 2011 Frenzy and a used high wind kite I can nixx off here for cheep.


Arc looks dope on land and beach. But I've noticed pretty vast differences in speed(on snow) in the arc vs. foil world.

For right now I'm just gonna buy a dope new 13m and chill with the sabre.
If I'm not liking the sabre lays down the pwn in snow, I'll just replace it and sell it to a lighter rider.

Then it'll probably just come down to Montana V. Frenzy

I wanna get into arc, but I think once i get savvy enough I'll just drop the cash for FS.

edit: btw everyone on here is awesome. I've learned more here in three weeks than I could have in two years of putzing around on my own.

<3 for my kite-niggas

Dunno ... I was just very impressed with the Ch19 versus my Syn19. Seems to make more power when worked and is crisper in the turns than the Syn so is more linear. And it's easier to work too ... maybe it's just we click with different kites ...?

As someone who uses Arcs full time for snow this is how I see it.

If you've never flown an Arc a Charger may not be the best place to start.

Bottom end on the Chargers kick the hell (IMO) out of previous versions of Arcs (not counting F-Arcs) IF YOU WORK IT. If you fly it "Set and forget" style I find it's better than all except maybe the 19m V2. Maybe. I was out yesterday on the mountain board with my 18m Phantom 1 and then switched to the 8m (yes 8m) Charger and was able to get around just as well or better because of the abilty to put the Charger where I needed it and sine or loop it to build power when lacking wind.

In smoother, steady winds the Phantom would probably have been better but for yesterday it worked better at keeping my wife warm as a blanket.

I'd put my 15m Charger up against a 13m Frenzy any day.:wee: Especially if the winds are punchy and all over the place. PA of a 19m CH and 13m Frenzy may be similar but the power and speed they produce are likely not.
My 12m F-arc is projected 7.5m. It is much much more powerful than my '05 7m Frenzy by a long shot. PA is a decent starting reference point for comparison but a lot more goes into it I think. Even when comparing Arcs to Arcs.

In regards to Dandre's statement on "Vast differences in speed on snow in the Arc vs. foil world" I'm not sure I understand. If you're stating that the Arcs are faster I obviously agree.

Where I live we all started on Ozones. But for the gusty conditions the Arcs are just better. The only advantage with the Frenzy as I see it is the easy of unpacking and launch. But with practice Arcs are actually pretty quick to set up.

We're all riding mostly Arcs and Flysurfers here now. I have a 3m '05 Frenzy that I never use but can't decide to sell it or keep it. Great little kite in high winds but now we have 8m and 6m Arcs that easily handle much broader wind range.

Not sure I follow the logic of wanting an Arc but buying a FS when he has more money. If I had more money I'd buy two Arcs instead of one FS and get a much broader wind range.

If the choice is Montana vs. Frenzy I prefer the Frenzy. I haven't flown any '11 Frenzies but I didn't like the Montana much when we had one so I'm biased against it and I ride Arcs full time so what the heck do I know?

Sorry for the long winded post.:P

what's you idea on the new 15m charger, low end in powder?

your best bet is to see if you can get a test ride on both kites. You can't beat the simplicity of the open cell foil IMO. One thing to consider as well is your weight. A frenzy will become more lit up quicker, when its at its top end it could be a bit of handful. An arc will have a larger top end, and seem more manageable too me in an overpowered condition. Landing the frenzy when you want to break just grab the handle pull in hard and down it comes. An arc (especially fan older model) anchor the chickenloop and the kite will float in the sky waiting for you to come back and play. Frenzy relaunch is so slick, the arc would take a bit of practice to get use to. So many variables its such a hard decision. For me I'd go the 13m frenzy, then a 10-12m older model arc (Venom2, Scorpion,Synergy) for higher winds, especially if those higher winds were gusty. Or save money on the brand new Frenzy and build and get Maven's 12m Manta......

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=15452

Find a Zero7 bar or Navigator bar and get this to take you in higher winds once the Manta got a bit too much......
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=19442

If I were gonna go for one arc as an intro to Peter Lynns I would look for a 13m Venom 2. (roughly a 7m equiv to a open cell foil)

In your weight range you can get away with a lot on that kite.

We've got some of the Montana's in stock, just haven't got them up on the website. We carry a lot more gear than our website shows. Gonna have to get a fire under the site designer and get him moving on these.

ya, dido to shaggs, I would get a bigger foil and then an arc for the mid-upper end. You get to try both and see for yourself, and that plays to the strengths of each anyway....foils to get flying in light winds, and arcs for their great upper end.

Sounds sick.

The plus side is I'll still have the 9.5 once I get the frenzy.

I think I will split between arc and Frenzy, it be cool to switch fly styles mid session.

For having a chance to demo some Ozone stuff in Montana you should get a hold of the guys at www.montanakitesports.com if you have not already. There is a montana kite forum on the site too.

Quote:

Originally posted by PrairieWind For having a chance to demo some Ozone stuff in Montana you should get a hold of the guys at www.montanakitesports.com if you have not already. There is a montana kite forum on the site too.

+1 for Montanakitesports.

They host the Snowkite rodeo each year and deserve your local support. They know Ozone well.

Keith Kalio has passed but was the person who 1st inspired me to ride all styles. An amazing personality and great loss. His " lost boys ' have done a good job keeping it up.

I personally LOVE my 15m Synergy. I use this kite as an intro to depower sometimes but it serves me at a novice level well ! I am consistantly amazed at the top end and it is my go to jumping kite. The Charger is a bit more of a challange.

If I was you I would be right on top of this 15m Synergy !!!!!
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=18434

dandre if you are looking to demo the montana's and if you are really in Big Sky, I am sure that can be arranged. I am up there a lot for the NAST. and ditto on the test driving a frenzy and seeking out the above link. Solid people.

yeah I'm already acquainted with MTkite sports.
I'll probably get more into the community this winter; but I'm leaving for MD for the off season shortly. (MISS HOMECOOKED MEALS, SO BAD) but I'll be back Nov 25th and hit the scene hard.

I was just using google maps, AND holy hell in a handbasket.
Alpine lakes and old volcanic craters?!

Mountains with heart-stealing plateaus, reaching into intermediate couloirs?<3<3<3

I have my hands full in the hometown. lol
If I'm not in an icy coffin by the kite rodeo I'll be cruising the utah, idaho, MT snowkite comps and festivals. Getting to know everyone and hopefully building up a crew I can travel with.

Wind River continental divide by snowkite??


I have been rethinking telemark in the backcountry though. (((( <sad

Had to do it.
A scant 4 miles away