Anyone have thoughts on these? Pros/cons to each? The Charger seems to have a couple extra steps to set it up each time - True or False? Thanks.

i have flown all of them on land and water.

charger is the quicker unit by far. the matrix is a little more kite than the neo, but they are basically the same.

the charger , with the sticks left in and lines left on, the set up is the same.

with the charger locked down it behaves alot like a c-kite and would be a little more advanced than the other bridled depower foils. for simplicity the charger is choice for sure.

per square unit of material the matrix is more efficient, and will produce a little better power in light wind.

the quick looping feature on the charger is nice , very snappy.

all have good float , matrix may edge the lot out.

charger has better pop when accelerated for jumps.

true/false?... false. unroll, sort lines, fill and go! thats the same as matrix/neo

Thanks a bundle! Would one be preferable over another for someone who is new to the sport, such as myself? I'd hate to bite off more than I can chew.

Hahahaha chad you just saved me so much time from having to type out all of that, good stuff!

Hondamon I just set up my 16m Scorpion, leaving sticks in, bar and lines attatched , B&D leaf blower/sweeper in the bag. It will be a very quick roll out and go. I have not decided how I will get it to stay put on the ice and snow when puffed up, different issues than the lay flat kites.

The neo sounds a little more tame(not necessarily a bad thing) as standards go. Really it's up to you what you want to spend your hard earned wing-wangs on.

I have a speed for low winds, and honestly it's more kite than I can bear in all but the tamest of winds; it probably keeps me from learning more than I could with a lower aspect(larger) foil.

I think most modern kites are pretty frickin' awesome. You'll have a tough time being disappointed with a modern intermediate kite.

so adam, what are going to do with all that SAVED time. RONCO has been banking me a couple lifetimes so far.


i would say chargers a great choice to get advanced results but u need decent pilot skills.

matrix would be my suggestion. conditions at your local and your weight would guide you on size. <175# get a 12m, >175# a 15m assume 15-20mph type wind would be powered nicely but both will do 10mph with plenty fun and safety.

Lol that saved time will go into preparing lessons for physics like I should be doing

entropy properly focused!

what's your goal? water, land, both?
average wind speeds?
is this your first powerkite?

Well, I have a 4m Flow that I've used a few times. Im due to receive my 9m Frenzy in the mail soon. After that, I'm looking for something I can do both land and water with. I grew up on a lake skiing and wakeboarding, so I love the water aspect, but I realize that much of the year it'll be too cold for that where I live. I suppose average wind speeds are 8-12mph here. I'm looking to board on land and on water.

For 8mph, and an adult male with any weight at all, there is really only a couple kites that will have power in 8-12 on water. Flysurfer, and specifically the Speed in 19 or 21m depending on version. If you are very light, you might get by with a 17 but you are talking about a Speed's sweet spot. I lack experience with the Matrix but the 15 should be in play if you get a good 12 mph

yup, agreed, 19-21 speed 3 foil from flysurfer. Dont forget about a big light wind board too. Realistic/common start on the 15 is 10 knots, so forget about that.

don`t know too much about the matrixx's wind range...
this is interesting though...he got going in 8 knots avg, that's fairly impressive; however, don't know his weight.

I think George would be somewhere in the 75-85 range ? (KG's). He's been real impressed with the Matrix 15m......

Is the Matrixx a kite that a newbie should/would/could learn and progress
on?

Near as I can tell the Matrixx is a closed cell (like an Peter Lynn or FLysurfer) version of the Montana 6. Not what I would call specifically a newb kite for sure as from the vids I've seen she looks to be a pretty high perfomance wing.

In a small size maybe. But that's a lot of $$ for a starter kite with hopes of progression.

I look at it this way, if you're just getting started and you're willing to drop a $1400 on a new Matrixx you'd be better off dropping $1400 and buying a quiver of used kites.

That way you have a whole size range to progress through as you learn. Then you have any kite you need for any conditions after you have a solid skill set. In addition, as a beginner the likelyhood of whipping a kite in and damaging/destroying it is pretty good. I would rather wreck a kite that I got cheaply than one that I bought for bigger $$. And you'd still have other kites to fly in the meantime.

And the kites in you quiver don't all have to be the same. You could get different models/styles and see which you like the most. Example, an Ozone/Peter Lynn/HQ mixed quiver would be fun.

No love for the Neo 2 from anyone? I've seen a few of these go up for sale in the $650 range and that seems like a good deal for a used, all-terrain kite, no? Okay, so it's not as much kite as a Matrixx, but is the Neo 2 a good depower kite for someone to learn and progress on? (Although someone recently posted they didn't want a 14m because it would rip their arms off, heh...)

HQ doesn't list the Neo 2 as good for buggy's in their specs, but how could it be good for ATB, but not buggy?

Can anyone else chime in on the Neo 2? Spare no details

Quote:

No love for the Neo 2 from anyone? I've seen a few of these go up for sale in the $650 range and that seems like a good deal for a used, all-terrain kite, no? Okay, so it's not as much kite as a Matrixx, but is the Neo 2 a good depower kite for someone to learn and progress on? (Although someone recently posted they didn't want a 14m because it would rip their arms off, heh...) HQ doesn't list the Neo 2 as good for buggy's in their specs, but how could it be good for ATB, but not buggy? Can anyone else chime in on the Neo 2? Spare no details

Ok....I'll share my thoughts on the Neo 2 14m I had. First, let me say that it is just my opinion. I think on this forum you will find a lot of people who really like the Neo 2...especially the 11m.

I personally did not like it. The inflation time was not as fast and fluid like my Flysurfers (Psycho 4 and Speed 2). The bar pressure was so light I had a difficult time 'feeling' where the kite was. I wasn't impressed with the depower. It did not have as much as my Venom 2. It was a stable kite, but at some points it felt twitchy....can't really explain it, but it did!?! The 5th line did not completely kill the kite...it still remained in a 'jellyfish' position...on my flysurfers the 5th line causes the kite to go exactly in half and fall to the ground. That issue on the Neo 2 could probably be fixed by bridle\line\5th line adjustment but at that point, I didn't want to deal with it.
I wanted to buy the Matrixx outright but after my experience with the Neo2, gotta say I am leery of it...I would now definitely have to try it before I bought it. I wonder too, why don't you hear more about the Matrixx....before it was released there was a lot of talk about it....now really nothing (or at least that I can find)...thinks that make you go hmmm!

Well there it is...Whatever you choose, hope you enjoy the stoke
;-)

Some Matrixx talk can be found here:

http://forum.kitecrowd.com/kite-landboarding/12m-hq-matrix-f...

If you haven't watch the video, here are some construction details and how to launch, fly, water relaunch the Matrixx.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qucThPhfWlc&feature=chann...

Inflation time on the Matrixx is better than the NEO II. Maybe I'm so use to it by now. But real easy for me to launch. I don't wait until the kite is fully inflated before pulling it into the air.

I probably have more time on the water with a NEO II than anybody, having flown it almost exclusively here on the Outer Banks for two years. It is gruntier and a little slower than the Matrixx, so it lacks the 'pop' for crazy air you'll find on the Montana or Matrixx. Matrixx also has much more float. I was never a fan of the 14m NEO II, as I found its range too limited. Never had an issue with the lighter bar pressure on the kite, but everyone has their own taste. Issues with the 5th line safety system could be attributed to inevitable line creep on the powerlines. Over time it is always good to check to make sure your four mainlines are equal in length. There are adjustment knots on the leaders to compensate.

Cheers,

Chris