I had this discussion a little while ago with a very experienced rider after a session. We both spent the same time on the beach, but I was spent and he was barely winded. I notice that while i was trying to manhandle the kite and find the right line to ride, he would effortlessly flick his 8.5FB kite in the air and disappear with the utmost ease... as though he and his rig were one... :wow:

when I mentioned this to him, his reply was along the lines of -
"there are three stages of buggying..."
1) you learn to fly the kite
2) the kite flys you
3)you find that zen, where kite, buggy, and wind are one...

I am stuck in #2 for sure. I know that a big part of my issue is long periods of inactivity between sessions. I very often go months without being able to get out. So there is always this re-learning curve every time. By the end of the day I'm usually doing OK but getting there is sometimes frustrating. And like mentioned before I'm usually spent in half the time. I wanna be tired from kiting for hours, not inefficiently....

anybody else go through this....? any vets care to add two cents...?

I had another stage in there where the buggy drove me for awhile.

After moving to Vegas, and getting to ride regularly at a place as wonderful as Ivanpah, I've found myself dipping my toe into #3. I'll never quit learning about this stuff but my fear level is virtually gone. I'm sure 30+ mph winds will ease some fear back but right now, I'm quite comfortable being stropped in directly to my harness with a fixed bridle kite at speed. I've wanted more wind and more speed every time I've been out.

dean jordan told me a couple years ago that a person learns more in a week at Ivanpah than they will learn in a year riding at home. Heck, school is in session every time I ride now. This past spring I aspired to someday learn to do a suicide jibe and can do them with whatever I'm flying in both directions now. This place just enhances the process and the understanding of what is happening with the whole system. I might be close to my limit and not know it but it feels like I have lots of room to grow from where I am. If you ever get a chance to ride at a place like this, jump on it.

Things I currently struggle with are: scrubbing off side load/pull, remembering to downloop for power when the wind isn't strong enough, and at times I keep dragging the wing tips on the ground when I'm not looking thus crashing the kite. Now I do understand what I'm doing wrong and what I need to do to remedy the problem, but trying to put it all together at times escapes me. I used to have a hard time keeping tension on my lines and keeping the kite in the air, but using a harness has helped with that.

Mark I think we are at the same stage. But I still suffer from crowd phobias!!

I'm finding I don't spend enough time with any one kite to get really comfortable with it's feedback through the controls, especially with my FB quiver. Each one has it's own characteristics so they all act a bit differently in similar conditions. This puts me in the habit of spending too much time relearning the edge of the kite before I get comfortable enough to really lay into the power and use them most effectively. This also lends to my tendency to fly underpowered which means I have to work the kite too hard to get enough out of it. All this to say, I'm starting to see the wisdom in sticking to a particular FB line. The other problem is riding small spaces, open desert and navigating rough terrain in concert with bumpy winds and lacking skills. It's just tough to get in a groove and start working smarter rather than harder. By the time I get the right wing in the air and get settled in, I'm lathered up and have to ride a bit conservatively if I want to ride anything more than a short, savage rip session (in terms of pressing my buggy handling skills) before I'm wasted.

As an illustrative example, I find riding the pucker brush at Elmer's far more fitting to my skills and style than long speed runs across the playa. I'm not so sure that's a bad thing but it certainly doesn't lend itself to that effortless aoxomoxoa style zen state we all chase.

Those with skills make it look easy.
Those with talent make it look effortless.
I make it look like a helicopter pilot trying to hold a hover in a bumpy crosswind.
It ain't sexy but, I get it done.

Cheezy- I've got the cure for what ails ya! Come out to LB tomorrow: http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=20139&p...

Marc, I would say the number one thing to look for towards advancing your buggy skills is really knowing your kite. Knowing what your kite is doing while you are looking forward is key. One day, it will just click and you will be like .... ohhh that's what they mean. Depower it isn't so bad, but when flying F/B it's a whole different ball game.

Like Donnie's new famous line

"Just close your eyes and feel it"

Once you have done this the buggy part will be a little easier.

yeah! feel my AOXOMOXOA !

Quote:

Originally posted by BeamerBob This past spring I aspired to someday learn to do a suicide jibe and can do them with whatever I'm flying in both directions now.

Whats that? :puzzled:

It's where instead of coming to a stop at the end of your run, you use the momentum of you and your buggy to fly the kite up over your head as you make a smooth fast turn downwind with the kite coming down through the power zone as you head back the other direction. Think of it as a BIG glorified downturn, but the kite at 1 point of the maneuver has its tail to the wind. Your speed and line tension keep the kite flying until the wind hits it in the face again and away you go in the other direction. The faster you are going, the easier it is to pull off since you have more momentum to use to complete your turn and keep the lines tight. I'll set up the gopro on a tripod and get that view and a helmet view to show how I'm doing it. There is another method which has you doing a downturn to begin with then swooping the kite back overhead and then it becomes the same as I'm doing, but that is alot more of a demonstration and trick than a real riding technique IMHO.

This is a perfect example at 1:25

Quote:

Originally posted by BeamerBob It's where instead of coming to a stop at the end of your run, you use the momentum of you and your buggy to fly the kite up over your head as you make a smooth fast turn downwind with the kite coming down through the power zone as you head back the other direction.

Terminology threw me because I think I first heard it referred to as a "Deadman's Turn". Perhaps just a US/UK-EU nomenclature difference.

_

ATB,
Sam

Quote:

Originally posted by indigo_wolf Quote: Originally posted by BeamerBob It's where instead of coming to a stop at the end of your run, you use the momentum of you and your buggy to fly the kite up over your head as you make a smooth fast turn downwind with the kite coming down through the power zone as you head back the other direction. Terminology threw me because I think I first heard it referred to as a "Deadman's Turn". Perhaps just a US/UK-EU nomenclature difference. _ ATB, Sam

Both of those are something different than I'm doing or would want to do. The example in the nabx vid I posted is exactly what I'm talking about.

Yes they are two different things and I've seen them named and described different ways which adds to the confusion. Bobby is describing a jibe and the other maneuver is doing a full 360 with kite and buggy traveling around a big arc similar to running a 360 with a kite (well sometimes you don't need to run). Doing the 360 the buggy has completed a 180 turn (jibe) as the kite is now upwind of you and you continue to roll around the circle as the kite comes back into the power zone making sure to quickly turn the buggy downwind as the kite rips through the power zone. Demonstrating one of these the first day of NABX last year is how (as Glen described it) I lost a bit of bark getting tossed backward out of the bug - my first ever NABX o.b.e. (hopefully last one) - even have some poor video of that.

Deadman's Turn ---- full 360 with the kite in buggy

Beaver wants to master a high speed turn

Suicide Gybe --- fast downwind run or downwind turn. The kite will act like a paraglider under speed and you can change side direction of the kite when it'd over head. It's faster than to Gybe downwind in a zigzag formation.

Hey Mark its great to see that you really did pick up some language nuances from me.


:singing::singing::singing:

Quote:

Originally posted by ripsessionkites Deadman's Turn ---- full 360 with the kite in buggy Beaver wants to master a high speed turn Suicide Gybe --- fast downwind run or downwind turn. The kite will act like a paraglider under speed and you can change side direction of the kite when it'd over head. It's faster than to Gybe downwind in a zigzag formation.

Ahh, you and Mark understand what I'm trying to say. It's much more beautiful to do than to talk about. :singing:

I found for the kind of buggying that I do, there are 3 stages
1) Learn to fly the kite
This is whereas as a noobie I would do face plants through our desert sand. After a few weekends, I figured that power kiting is easy.

2) Flying kite sat in buggy on nice flat ground.
Figuring I was a first class kite flyer, then sat in my brand new buggy. I was a total novice again. At my first attempt to turn back, I turned the buggy before the kite & was instantly ripped off the back of the buggy.
After 6 months of buggying every weekend, I figured that I was the 'Bees Knees' of kite buggiers even managing a few tricks.

3) Kite buggying in sand dunes.
Enter the Sand-Yeti into the sand dunes & 'Bang'!, I was a noobie again. I'd go up a dune too fast and carry on skywards while my buggy was rolling quite alone down the leeward side of a dune or when descending a steep dune would roll the buggy under the kite whereupon it would collapse & fall down. For several weekends in the dunes it was a mass of OBE's. How on earth can I stay in the buggy? More than 10 years on having buggied almost every weekend, I think I have the hang of it although I still screw up once in a while. In March this year, I had a very bad OBE smashing my right wrist which required surgery so that I'm now a member of the Titanium club. That little OBE kept me out of the buggy for almost 3 months.
I have buggied 1104 kms (686 miles) through the Dubai deserts since that incident and have only had one OBE during that time but am taking it a bit easier since the accident because I don't need that anymore. The real pain isn't the physical discomfort, it is being unable to buggy or even fly a kite

This 3rd stage is still an area where I continue to learn.

Maybe there is a 4th stage where I will be a beginner again but don't know what that could be.

Nice Sand-Yeti... I have followed your exploits through Popeye's website. :bigok:

my 2 cents, crash and learn , .......B.C. CRASHED a month ago, learned don't trust anybody ,mistakes hurt.

Quote:

Originally posted by Sand-Yeti This 3rd stage is still an area where I continue to learn. Maybe there is a 4th stage where I will be a beginner again but don't know what that could be.

Sand Yeti its great to hear from you again. I've thought about you often and wondered how you were getting along. I think we all aspire to do as well as we can in this third stage (or wonder if we're there yet). I'm curious if there is a 4th stage as you say. All of us must always be willing to push our limits and grow and be ready to learn something.

You can watch 17 minutes of Dirtslide doing some stage 3 flying via his helmet cam at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POYh4mV-dsA
It is just raw footage, no audio, no effects. It is low wind flying with a 4m. For noobs, it is worth watching how a master keeps his kite flying. In lots of the video his hands and the kite are in view.
Stage 4 flying: when the entire field has entered the Zen and are acting as one.
S