Hey again!

I just purchased a Hydra 300 for my girlfriend for xmas. She's been using my 4m Flow, but it's often been a little too much for her, and since we're wanting to get out onto the water, I thought a water re-launchable foil trainer would be good. However, I notice that the kite's bar is just a bar with a 3rd line and no harness loop. Do I not want to attach it to our harnesses? I realize it is a trainer. Thanks.

i started on a Hydra 300 and put it on my epic bar just to see how it would do and it flew fine. I guess you should be able to use any four line bar just attach both center lines to the back line on the hydra. Hope this helps

You can buy a D-loop / static loop with QR for about $20 . Most dealers on here have them.

YES, hooking in is a big advantage. Extending her fly time as she gets used to it . + making transition to depower less stressful.

I am not sure how md2' suggests it will work with a 4 line depower bar ? Not the way I would go ?

+1 for the D-loop with QR, I think both PL and HQ offer one. I've got one on my RushIV 300 pro. I've also used it with handles, as a strop, but the tubing doesn't slide too well.

HQ D-Loop


Photo courtesy of Coastal Wind Sports

Peter Lynn D-Loop


Photo courtesy of Coastal Wind Sports

• Red Tab/Stopper Ball is the quick release safety.
  
  
• Price is around $28-$32 USD
  
  
• Each end of the D-Loop is attached to either side of the center of the control bar to form a "U"/"D" that the spreader bar can hook into.
  
  
• You will still need to employ the wrist safety leash to retain the kite should you need to use the quick-release on the D-Loop.
  

Some important things to keep in my that since the Hydra is a FB (albeit closed-cell), the safeties will work completely differently from how the safeties on an LEI will work. While skills like body-dragging will transfer over from one venue to the other, there will be a hiccup for safety deployment methods.

For the folks whose main goal is the water, several manufacturers make 2-4M LEI trainers. What they give up in maximum survivability in a nose down ballistic crash, they make up for in a more direct transfer of skills from trainer to full size LEIs. The safeties are more similar (even though depending on manufacturer they can be more basic to keep the price point down). However, they are true depower kites and the line riggings more closely resemble their larger counterparts.

Some LEI trainers that are currently available.

• Ozone Uno (2.5M) - Sold kite only and you provide the pump and basic depower bar.
  
  
• Epic Tutor (2.5M) - Can be flown with the standard bar included with the kite, the Junior Pro Bar or the Extend Bar (45mm-55mm). Essentially you have 3 bar options.
  
  
• Epic Junior Pro (4M) - Based on the larger Renegade kite. It can be flown on the standard bar included with the kite, or the Extend Bar (45mm-55mm) (for higher winds)
  
  
• AirRush Supra TI (Trainer Inflatable (2M-3M) - Note: Airush sells 3 flavors of trainers - wing (single skin, NPW type kite), foil and inflatable.
  
  
• Ocean Rodeo Rise Trainer (2M) - Sold with Rise 2m SLE 4-line kite, Bar & 21m lines, Safety leash, Pump, Manual and Kite shoulder bag.
  

ATB,
Sam

Sam strikes again!!

Thanks for the details! Does the D loop fall out of the harness's spreader bar hook though? Also, could my Ozone Flow's control bar work with the Hydra? Or am I best off getting one of the D loops?

The challenge is the hydra is designed to run with the power lines on the bar ends like a typical FB kite. It is not a Depower, the 3rd lin is designed as a safety. To ge the load onto a harness you have to attach a loop to the bar itself and not that center line. So using a Depower type bar could be problematic as they typically have the CL attached to the center line...

However I have heard on these forums there is a mod to make the Hydra function similar to a Depower, hopefully someone will chime in about that mod...

My Flow is a FB, not a depower. It's got just a 4-line bar with a chicken loop. This could work?

hrmmm Probably not directly as it is. The reason being the center line for the hydra does move thru the bar, just not like a depower if that makes sense? You could put a loop/connection point of some sort up the center line to connect a leash to? A bit hard to describe, but you need something connected a ways up the center line to act as your safety and dump the kite.. You need some way to simulate the center line action of the current bar.

Honestly for the price and simplicity one of the loops Indigo listed just can't be beat. Very simple to install and off you go!:wee:

Some kites take to the Ozone Turbo bar better than others. It can't hurt to try. I am sure it will be better than the depower bar suggestion.

Ahh...gotcha. Yeah, I guess my girlfriend is worth an extra $30 or so. I appreciate the feedback. I'll just go with that...seems logical. Oh, FYI, my Ozone bar is not turbo, just standard bar with a chicken loop. The safety leash on my Ozone control system goes under the bar and connects just in front of the bar. But, for simplicity maybe the "D Loop" is the way to go. I wonder which one is better, the Peter Lynn or HQ. Seems though like it would just fall out the bottom of the harness hook each time I pull back on the bar. All your comments are much appreciated. I feel a little stuck here in Korea trying to figure stuff out. There aren't any other westerners that kite here that I know of, and it's not like I can just call up the one kitesurf shop I know and shoot a few questions at them. This forum has really helped!

Both companies D-loops are going to be O.K.

YES, you just flop the Loop up into your spreader hook and drop it back out. Not as clumsy as a CL loop and DD.

The reason for the QuickRelease is that if you are extremely powered it can be tough to pull in and down enough to unhook. If you find yourself in that position simply pulling the pin will release the loop.

Note: All images are hyperlinked to zoomed images or product pages. Click images to launch.



Quote:

Originally posted by hondamon Thanks for the details! Does the D loop fall out of the harness's spreader bar hook though?



If this becomes annoying, you can always use an aftermarket chicken loop lock (the kind that attaches to the spreader bar rather than the chicken loop).

Picture courtesy of www.coastalwindsports.com

It would prevent the D-loop from flopping out when there is no tension on it, and would still not pose any impediment if you had to deploy the D-Loop quick-release.



Quote:

Originally posted by Bladerunner Some kites take to the Ozone Turbo bar better than others. It can't hurt to try. I am sure it will be better than the depower bar suggestion.


If you don't already own the Turbo Bar, it would be a waste to get it for just the Hydra as it's a 3 line kite. The Turbo Bar's strength lays in better steering response on a bar by combining the power and opposing brake inputs to essentially perform brake turns with a bar. This doesn't apply when it is a 3-line kite.



Quote:

Originally posted by hondamon I wonder which one is better, the Peter Lynn or HQ. Seems though like it would just fall out the bottom of the harness hook each time I pull back on the bar.

The quality is fine on both of them and the prices are so close that neither should break the bank.

They are both the same length, so their fit and tendency to remained hooked to the spreader bar under reduced pull/tension, should be about the same.

Depending on usage, I might give the HQ a slight nod over the PL. The only reason being that the PL using uses a pull tab, while the HQ uses a stopper ball to deploy the safety. I would think that the stopper ball (HQ) would be easier to operate with gloves in the colder months.



Quote:

Originally posted by hondamon Also, could my Ozone Flow's control bar work with the Hydra? Or am I best off getting one of the D loops?





Quote:

Originally posted by lamrith hrmmm Probably not directly as it is. The reason being the center line for the hydra does move thru the bar, just not like a depower if that makes sense? You could put a loop/connection point of some sort up the center line to connect a leash to? A bit hard to describe, but you need something connected a ways up the center line to act as your safety and dump the kite.. You need some way to simulate the center line action of the current bar.



Okee Dokee... I took this one out of order and put it last because it requires the most explanation, diagrams and random waving of hands/arms before all is said and done.



Picture courtesy of www.verdicts.co.uk
Earlier Ozone FB Bar with what is essently a "reverse" D-Loop and on-the-fly brake trim (red and yellow loops 3/4 up the brake strap).


Picture courtesy of www.synergykitesports.com/
Current Ozone FB Bar with Megatron Chicken Loop and no on-the-fly brake trim

This is a comparison of the control layouts for the HQ Hydra and the Ozone Flow with the Ozone FB Bar


You should be able to use the Ozone FB Bar with the Hydra just fine. Here are some things to keep in mind:
1. The safety leash on the standard Hydra Bar runs through the center of the bar. On the Ozone FB Bar, the safety leash just runs underneath the bar and attaches to the brake strap just below the pulley. This is because of the placement of the Megatron Chicken Loop. However the function is essenttially the same, just accomplished just a smidge different.
   
   
2. If you wanted to relaunch the the Hydra with the standard bar, you would just grab the safety leash line near the stopper ball and pull it back. On the Ozone FB Bar, you would just reach (over or under) the Control bar and pull back on the brake strap. Same action, slightly different methodologies.
   
   
3. The Hydra is a 3 line kite and there are multiple bridle segments coming off the trailing edge of the kite that cascade to a single brake line leader.
   
   
4. Normally, the Ozone FB Bar is used for 4 line kites. The brake strap terminates in a pulley with a single dyneema line that, in conjunction with the pulley to form two brake line leaders.
   
   
5. To fly the Hydra with the Ozone FB Bar you would just larkshead the two brake line leaders to the single brake line. This would place the larkshead from one brake line leader above the other, but the pulley would equalize the length disparity caused by this. You might have to tweak the trim on the brake line to accomodate this usage and the fact that you are mixxing manufacturer products, but it shouldn't be too big a deal.
   
   
6. The D-Loop will be marginally more convenient to deploy the safety because of the proximity of the quick release to where your hands are typically placed on the bar. However, the "Chicken Loop" on the Ozone FB Bar is going to be closer to the arrangement on an LEI, so it is something your are going to have to get comfortable with and build muscle memory for anyway.
   
   
7. Added bonus: You get to save a little dosh (OK... not a king's ransom) for future kite purchases.
   

Hope that helps... let me know if you have anything is unclear.

ATB,
Sam

Really I know this took some time to put together and explain. Thank you ever so much! It is clear as day. Thanks!

Yeah Sam is our in house Encyclopedia.

Awesome job Sam!