How would you compare the performance of the two kites when used to buggy? The Access is much more expensive and seems to be very nicely made. How do they compare when in the air? Other than cost is one better than the other?

My first de-power was the 8M Ozone Access II(2007, I think), I bought it new in the bag in early 2009, at a good savings. I now have the 7.5M HQ Apex III, and I feel it flys quite similar to the Access, even to the amount of power it generates. Straps for de-power instead of clam-cleat, different, but quite functional chicken loop set-up, but over-all I'm quite happy with the Apex. I never did use the 8M in the buggy, only on the snow. The few times I've tried to buggy with the Apex, it was in shifty flukey wind, so I didn't get much riding in. I'm really hoping for some snow this week! Then I can give a better comparison.

If you have shorter arms you will find the access bar much more user friendly. The apex bar has a long throw and is hard to reach when fully extended (atleast for me). If you have longer arms than this is a non issue.

Dino and I have talked about this and I had to unpack a kite to see what he was talking about since I had never noticed it. There is a good amount of throw in the system but its an easy reach for me. TBH, I'm 6'4" and have the arms to go with that. The Apex is a fantastic kite. I recently had my 7.5 up over 49 mph in the buggy and that wasn't the limit. I had not even had to ease off downwind yet. That kite probably has 60 mph possibilities.

I find size for size, the Apex does better in lighter winds than the Access. ie: it used to take about 14 knots to start to get decent power with the 6m Access XC whereas the 5m Apex is good to go from about 12 knots. But the Access probably has a tad more depower and a slightly higher top end.

4m Access XT is quite quick, you need to keep an eye on it - the 5m Apex is slower, more stable in gusty conditions and more relaxing to fly. By the time I'm going sideways with the 5m Apex, it's time to put up the 4m Access XT.

In gusty inland conditions, I find the Apex a bit more stable, forgiving and slower. Access are a bit faster, bar is of a higher quality (fittings, feel etc) and the access has more 'gizmos' - blow out valves, y line, mesh covered vents etc.

With the Apex, I also find the depower strap hard to reach - it is a little too far away. Never noticed that problem with the Ozone.

I think my Apex 5 & 7.5 are great kites. I'd probably be just as happy with the 6 & 8 Access XT's but the XC's (2009) are too slow to turn for my tastes. The bar strap adjusters on the 2010 Access XT (no cam cleat) are fiddly so I wouldn't buy another 2010 model. They brought the cam cleat back in 2011.

Flew the Apex III back to back with the Apex II and really didn't feel a huge difference - I don't feel any need to upgrade my II's.

You get a bit more for your money with the Ozone - as you should because they are certainly more expensive. Do they 'fly' several hundred dollars better than the Apex?.......maybe a little faster but I think the Apex are a tad more stable. In the end, they are both similar kites aimed at the same type of use.

We love the Apexs. A friend flies an Access and Apex and he likes them both the same. The Apexs turn a bit faster from what I've seen.

If you're using a waist harness the Apex throw is pretty far.

You get what you pay for with both kites. But in this case that's not a bad thing.

You can't go wrong with either would be my guess.

I've never flown the Access, but I understand they are top notch, though they should be at half again the cost, if you get lucky and can find a used Apex (pimp, pimp) you can put the savings toward another kite, say a 5m.

I'll complicate matters by throwing the Montana in the mix. It has all the stability of the Apex with lots more turning speed. It isn't darty at all and runs like its on rails at speed. It has lots more response if you are making power by sining the kite. I have some good video but am still toying with the editing side of things. I'll post up when I'm able.

I've often thought I'd like to try a Montana (either the 7 or 9.5) but I've been concerned with the "lifty" factor, though I do enjoy a fast turning kite, which is why I like the Caution LEI's, flew a Slingshot earlier this year and just couldn't get it to turn as I was used to. I understand the Montanas and Frenzys for that matter perform better upwind than their lesser brethren.

OoPs, I hope I havn't hijacked thids thread too bad. :puzzled:

IMO if you're looking for more of a touring rig with less lift and less chance of accidental lift I'd stay clear of the Montanas. I will say I loved the M1 but I haven't enjoyed the Montanas that followed.

In regards to upwind I'm amazed at the upwind of the Apex. With the right pilot those things go upwind like nobody's business.

Oh I understand whats possibly wrong "the right pilot" as you say and all I have is a loose nut behind the footpegs

LIft would only be a concern when you are flying a size that's beyond its wind range and beyond your skill range. I've never been lifted out of my seat with lifty arcs, or Montanas. Well I've done several "pegstands" because I grabbed a little too much power out of a turn and it took a few feet for the buggy to catch up to me. As with any potentially lifty kite, don't send it to zenith real fast at speed. Control the kite and fly not far out of your skill zone.

Considering those fateful words, "A man's got to know his limitations" The Apex gives a very high performance with a little less in the turning speed and agressiveness, (and lift). It's just a matter of what you want the kite to do for you.

Very true. And to be clear the Apex is not without lift. It just isn't prone to it.

My wife can huck all day on the Apex. I can't seem to get it to hardly lift me off the ground. Arc lift is too engrained in me or something.

She also runs those things damn near straight up wind. I don't get how but she does. She gets nearly the same upwind as I do on my Chargers. Sucks when I'm trying to ditch her.

With the HQ Apex kites you will be getting both beginer friendly and expert level performance at a lower price. Thats pretty nice.

Quote:

Originally posted by snowspider With the HQ Apex kites you will be getting both beginer friendly and expert level performance at a lower price. Thats pretty nice.

Well said. That's also interesting what Feyd says about their upwind ability.

It's great how many experienced wind junkies take time to help us newbies. Thank you for all your help. Good to know that I can fly Access or Apex and expect good performance with both. :wee:Thanks !

Here's some vid of flying the Apex 5m and Access XT 4m down at 13th Beach (Victoria/Aus)....

Apex II 5m and Access XT 4m at 13th Beach