I am a newby, and loving the sport. I will hopefully get to try buggying soon and am curious...

So I was reading someones reviews of good buggying kites, and the only mention I read of either of the 2 kites I own was to say that the beamer was NOT a good buggying kite. In light of how it was advertised, and what I have read in other places, they claimed it to be a great "all-around" kite, but not so good in the buggy seat.

I also brave a 5.6m PL twister IIr.

What are you guy's opinions of these 2 kites for the buggy?

Merely curious what you think,... I haven't even gotten on a buggy, but if I do, will I end up wanting some other kite for this venue?

Thoughts of the masses?

The Beamer was my go to buggy kite till I went depower for the most part. I used a Beamer IV 5m. It was especially nice inland where the wind was not as clean. Sits right in the middle of the power window for good solid power in the buggy. Not the best buggy kite, but not a bad one either. Now HQ has the Toxic. Never used the Twister in the buggy, but it should also do the job. It is more of a freestyle type kite for jumping on a board or freestyle in the buggy. The Beamer may not have as much upwind power, but will do the job in my opinion.

thanks,

that's cool, I thought so,... I thought I read somewhere that the toxic and the twister have similar flying characteristics.

The toxic is kinda sexy lookin' though. I like the graphics.

I don't need another kite though.... at least not yet.

S

man this stuff is addictive,... maybe i should start a support group

The Beamer will get you going in a buggy...but it isn't designed for the buggy. Its what it is...a great all round fun kite. Specifically for the buggy, HQ Toxic is a good choice. Others in that price range would be the Peter Lynn Viper. Moving up the price scale are the Peter Lynn Reactor, then further up the price scale, the HQ Prodigy, the Peter Lynn Vapor, Ozone Yakuza, etc.

The Twister is in the same boat. It was not designed as a buggy kite. It is liftier and wants to take you up. I've buggied with all. I won't even pick up a Beamer for buggying as it is pretty much a one way trip on the grass I buggy on...it just doesn't have the umph needed to get back upwind like the others. On a nice hard pack surface, different story, but still not ideal.

The Beamer/Twister if you already have one is one you can start buggying on just to try things out. It won't be ideal, but it will let you kind of get the hang of it. If you have a chance, pick up one of the other mentioned kites and try them side by side. you will see the point I'm trying to make.

I learned to buggy with a 3m beamer III. It is very stable but that stability narrows its wind window. It generates more side pull than kites considered to be better buggy specific kites. The narrower window won't let you reach the highest speeds for a given wind but will keep your lines tight and let you start linking turns. It is very confidence inspiring. When you first start rolling away under kite power in a buggy, the last thing you want is speed. You just want some pull to get you moving and be able to complete your turns without luffing the kite and/or getting yanked out of the buggy.

The toxic is all this but loses lots of the side pull. It is faster turning and has a wider window as well. I've never flown a beamer and toxic back to back but the toxic is much faster than my memories of flying beamers. It loops faster and shoots across the window faster, yet it doesn't overshoot the edge of the window and fold up. My 12 year old son has been honing his skills on the toxic since we started riding at Ivanpah and does really well with it. I've made runs with the 2 and 3m Toxics but have never been well powered when running it so can't say I've really put them to the test yet. More to come later on that with video as well.

Quote:

Originally posted by soliver man this stuff is addictive,... maybe i should start a support group

support group??? ..... What???? ... isn't that what this is???? .... man! am I in the wrong room?? ..... Naw.... LOL ..... Hello, my name is Eric and I'm........

I have buggyed with the TwisterIIr 5.6m and love it. I didn't find it to be as lifty as its reputation. But boy is it fast !!!

Mike,

I bought both these kites from you and love them both, THANKS!

Thanks for these heads up guys,... as I said before, I have yet to even place my rear end in a buggy, so I'm really just curious.

I will be joining the guys at OOBE field in a couple of weeks for the chili run, so hopefully someone will be kind enough to let me try out a buggy.

Spencer

Start saving !! You WILL come home wanting a buggy... :evil:

I'm sure i will,... in fact I'm counting on it.

though, it doesn't seem like there is really anywhere in the Atlanta area to buggy. ATB seems a little more reasonable, we'll just see what happens.

What buggies are worthwhile? it seems like all people carry are all the PL buggies. The Flexifoil scout looks good to me,... used buggies???? what to do, what to do...

I suppose I'll have to talk wifey into it... that seems important.:wink2:

Spencer if your in GA look up Pokitetrash. He loves to buggy and he may be close enouph to share some intel with you. But watch out don't drink milk while he's talking.

Oh crap I missed the part where you said your going to OOBE Chris will be there scooping out the chili. He's good people. Give him a hug from me

Beamers got me started in the buggy, as well as on skis. They do not go upwind as well as some other kites as stated above, but in your early days in the buggy what you have will work just fine. There is so much to learn in the beginning that ultimate performance isn't the most important factor in your success. If you can link up with someone that can give you some help and pointers you will progress rapidly and gain the insight that will help you to pick the kites that will make the most sense for your style. I still use my beamers when the conditions are right and have gotten great return on the money spent. Your first kites will take a lot of abuse, IMHO, take that abuse out on a more stable lower performing, and lower cost bit of nylon, Then move up as your skill level increases. You will find yourself still using your old friends in poor conditions, and to teach others when they see how much fun you are having! You would be hard pressed to find anyone on here that doesn't have some beaters in the quiver.

I also started with an HQ Beamer as my first kite. Granted it was a 5m (always flew it in low winds). However, it worked great for me learning how to ride in the buggy. This was the first kite that really got me going in the buggy. Though, once I got used to this, I made the jump into depower with Flysurfer Outlaws. Bit of a change there, but it worked out for me...


I would generally agree that the Beamers do not go upwind as well as some kites, and that they do generate a decent amount of side-pull. However, for learning how to buggy, these kites will work great for you. Will you eventually grow out of them? Possibly. They are a good learning kite though. And work just fine in the buggy.

explain what you guys mean by "going upwind."

I think I know but am not sure.

What makes specific kites better at it than others.

Also, I'd love to find a place to buggy (if I end up being into it) that is closer than SC. Especially if I eventually buy one.

OOBE looks awesome, but its 3+ hours from me.

Er.... Going upwind. Heh, the simple terms that you take for granted once you have been kiting for awhile. Generally you ride perpendicular to the direction of the wind. "Going upwind" generally means any time you are adjusting your angle of travel into the direction of the incoming wind. IE: Wind coming towards you from the East. You are traveling north to south. You start turning up wind, making progress East, even though that is where the wind is coming from.

Some kites do this better because of the way they are designed. They sit further forward in the window, and pull you more towards the edge allowing you to travel further upwind...

Hope this helps

edit- Only 3hrs to get to a good riding spot? Not terrible. Wildwood is 4hrs from me. Local spot 1hr requires very very specific wind direction. Everything else is very gusty and small fields.

My 4m Beamer was my go-to kite for a fair while. Eventually I did sell it because I wanted a little more speed and a little less sidepull but nonetheless, I had some great runs both in the paddock and on the beach. It's a good all-round kite and will serve you well for a start. One of my favorite runs with it:

It's a bit down the road, but does anyone have recommendations for a first buggy.

It seems like all most people carry are the Peter Lynn line of buggies. I must say though that the Flexifoil looks appealing.

Given the price though, I think I may go used for the first...

Thoughts???

John,

Great video!

Spencer

Thanks Spencer!

I was all set to buy a Peter Lynn buggy (for my first buggy) - it was quite similar to the flexifoil in size and price but I liked the seat a little better. Then I made the mistake of having a go in a Libre Vmax and although a bit more expensive, it was what I wanted. Much more comfy for cruising around in. Certainly it's a little heavier to cart around, but I can cruise comfortably in it for hours and have never regretted buying it. I think Vmax do a slightly smaller version for a similar price as the PL and flexi bugs. Van's buggy's look pretty good too......if I was in the US and in the market for a bug, I'd be giving him a call......

Hey PKF, I guess I posted this in the wrong place, sorry you had to move it.

John, I'm not yet "in the market" for a buggy, more just putting the feelers out. I still haven't even ridden in a buggy,... who knows I may not like it. ... I probably will though, and as previously stated we'll need to discuss with wifey, and given how much we've spent on kites in the last 2 months I have probably reached my quota for the 2011/ 2012 season.

I really think I may eventually get something used. But probably still a ways away. Like I said, just putting the feelers out for what you experienced guys think.

Her hobby is way less expensive than mine.

The problem is, once you sit down in a buggy and get your first "run" in, you will never look back. And that is all you will want to do. I'd plan on getting one, and get something that you will be happy with.

I got really lucky when I first started and picked up a combination package that included a buggy and a couple kites. Sold all the kites, kept the buggy. It is a PL buggy (older model), and not the most comfortable buggy in the world, but with how infrequently I actually buggy, I cannot get the wife to buy off on getting a nicer buggy.

Money could be an issue though. You get what you pay for when you look at buggies. The really nice ones are not cheap. Best of luck.

VTT Crickets and Libre V-max are very similar in size and shape I think you can pick up a cricket for around 500ish maybe less. Call Van he could give you a real quote.