Hello,

Sorry, I know this subject has been posted in one form or another time and time again, but there are always new answers that come up. What are some of the most obvious advantages or disadvantages to each that you have found? I was out on my landboard yesterday and met a guy who was kitesurfing with his Switchblade (and his homemade board), and as I watched him set up, launch and land, I really wondered this. Didn't take him long at all compared to me with my Flysurfers. Thanks for your input!

Other that the obvious , no pump etc. I like soft kites that have a forgiving nature.

The soft kites I like have a slight delay between my input and the outcome. Like my kites says you have just set up a dangerous move . Go forward > Go back < . TOO often I often use that bit of time to chicken out :sniff:

Lei kites ( and the new Charger ) are stiffer and respond faster . A good thing for young whipper loopers but not for my style of riding.

if you do it enough ALL will seem quick.

Aside from the obvious - leaking bladders, having to pump...

LEIs...
... have a less complex bridle so they're considered to be less of a tangle risk when you drop them in the water... I find this to be rubbish. I've had the worst tangles with my LEIs cos the canopy sinks more into the water and grabs weeds.
... are harder to invert or bow-tie - but it can still be done so that's a bit of a fable IMHO.
... depower more when you need it; if you have a Cabrinha kite with IDS (for example) once you let go the bar, the kite will hardly pull at all. Once it's on the water, and you try to relaunch, LEIs have the least pull.
... IMO are more responsive to bar travel re. power, depower.
... are more explosive when you jump.

Foils, especially Flysurfers...
... self-launch and -landing is more reliable but I prefer to have an assisted landing, especially when I'm over-powered - it's easier on the kite IMO.
... are simpler to setup and take a little less time to do so; they take longer to pack up cos they hold air so well!
... float on the water better and don't get swamped. LEIs I find especially bad if they drop TE onto the water.
... relaunch easier and stay in the air in lighter winds.
... give more power for size and parS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-n'ride much sooner.
... are more stable once parked.
... make more power from apparent wind and the power is less on/off.
... are slower through turns but make power while turning.
... have noticeably more hang-time and float oh yeah!

Foils seem to have a longer life because you dont have a plastic bladder that needs to be replaces from time to time

So in my opinion you get more riding for the money. That maybe different if you live on the coast and dont have wicked shifty wind. Lei kites definatly have more pop but I love the float of foils.

I don't find take down isn't much different, but set up *seems* definitely longer when putting up a LEI, even if it's not that much longer practically speaking. Foils are just so easy! realistically not a big deal for longer sessions. But for short 1 hour sessions in the summer...foil set up time is really nice.

Lots has been said already, but I'll give my 2 cents too from landboarding in the summer (still haven't gotten too much time on the LEI with snowkiting to make much of a comparison). This is *very* dependent upon my location (small field, so can't travel very fast) and wind conditions (gusty).

LEI -
More precise feeling on the bar - seems faster to re-engage power after dishing it during a gust, this is really handy in a small location
Bigger depower on the bar,
solid canopy - can take a beating from gusts at the edge of the window, float back, whatever...not much phases it as long as your bar work is up to the task for the conditions.

In comparison, my foils seems to like apparent wind a bit more to re-engage the power (ie, takes a bit longer in that particular situation because I am not moving very fast). And my particular foil doesn't like the combination of slower moving travel speeds and gusty winds (which is standard at my location for landboarding, the kite can overshoot during quick gusts a bit too frequently for my liking)

That being said, I really enjoy my foil for snowkiting when I get more open space and better travel speeds. The float is awesome, even though I don't jump very big yet. Dido to Kami's comment on apparent wind, my foil revs up for sure on apparent wind.

I don't think there is a quicker setup with a closed cell foil than with an LEI. It all depends on your routine and how you packed it up and it gets setup. Bridle lines of a foil can be a tangle nightmare just as much as a leaky bladder can be. I have experienced both as well as quick setups with both types. Open cell foils can be the fastest of the 3 types as far as setup goes.

...really? AD72, are you packing your LEI with lines attached?
You must have *really* perfected your LEI routine, cause if I am pulling out my FS foil when others are putting up LEI at the same time, I am consistently up and riding and doing a few tacks before the LEI kites are ready to launch, and it's not like I am hurrying or anything.

Pumping takes the longest time for me on the LEIs - still gotta walk the lines out with the FSer - check no twists or tangles in the bridle - but it's still faster cos I don't have to pump

What I do with the LEI bar is to larS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s head the left rear and front lines to each other (same for the rights) when I pack the kite up. When I walk the lines out, they tangle much less, even near the ends. Hey, works for me

With an assisted launch of an LEI, there is less of a variable of twisted lines and having to go back and sort things out. I detach the lines from the kite and it takes no time flat to run them out and get connected properly.

The variable I have run into with foils is the wind likes to flop around the kite and the bridle lines along with it which ends up in tangles. Then you have to go back and make sure all the lines are straight. This happens more with high wind than with low wind. My bias may be location specific because I don't have much space to launch and underinflated hot launches are not the way to win friends. If I had a big open field or beach the story may be different.

So when everything goes just right, I can get a FS up in the air quickly. Other times I have taken much more time than with an LEI. If you have the routine down, the LEI can be a quick setup. So I don't take full stock in the advantage of FS getting out to the water faster than LEIs.

How are you launching the foils, AD? Hot or cross-wind?

Cross wind.

ya, I'm riding land mostly, that probably makes a difference too, much easier to use a hot launch and let the kite fill as it rises.

Notice you have the speed2 19 in your quiver, might have something to do with the bridles as well, I think the speed2 have thinner bridles than the kites produced after it if I'm not mistaken, making it easier for the bridles to tangle.

Do you pre-fill at all? I get as much air in as possible when it's windy so the kite spends less time flapping like a mad chicken.
But I have enough space to lay the lines out, walk around upwind keeping tension on the lines...

not much, just enough so the kite still doesn't react much to the wind when laying on the ground, but enough so that the leading edge catches the wind cleanly when I pull those front lines (hotlaunch) or walk back a bit (side launch).

LEI-For kiteboarding a big advantage is safety, if something happens to where you need additional floating kill the kite and use it to get back to shore.

Not you kitedelight - AD
I get as much in as I can - flapping of kite material is the biggest killer. I bet it roots the waterproof coating too...
With a hot launch, I prefill through the exhaust vents - works real nice.

Mostly Harmless has never tried to pack up a closed-cell foil in a hurry either