For those of you who have flown HQ products, can you give me the skinny? I have been interested in the Montana for a long time and HQ seems to be spending a lot of time improving that kite each year. The more I think about it the more I want a 7m something. I've owned Ozone kites and like them but won't pay what they ask. Gin is the bomb, IMO, and they have a new 7m coming out this winter which I'm willing to wait for but between now and then I'd like to learn more about the Montana and even the Apex. I've heard they can have problems with tip tucks / stability in gusts. I've heard the bar is nothing special and the safety system just OK to possibly problematic but I've never paid too much attention because I don't own their products. What's the real deal in terms of build quality, durability, power compared to similarly sized kites, stability in gusty winds, depower range, bar quality, safety system?

Gin quality is easily as good as Ozone and their pricing is similar to HQ so my real debate is wait for Gin or try a Montana while I wait. I know what I'll get if I wait for Gin, I've never flown or even seen a Montana or Apex so I have no idea what I'd get if I go with a HQ product. Are 7m Montanas even still available? A number of websites I looked at list them as "out of stock" or "call for availability".

What about the Apex? How does a 5m Apex comare to a 4m Access in terms of power and usable range?

I have no experience with Gin and very little with Ozone. Ozone is considered to be very well constructed but I'd have to see one side by side with an HQ product to try to find anything lacking on the HQ materials/workmanship or design.

The Montanas have gotten better with every iteration. I thought the Montana VI was the perfect kite. Tip tuck was gone, stable in ugly winds, and they are fast. I've been 45 mph with the 9m and 53 with the 7m M VI. Wexler increased his pb to over 58 mph with the M VII at Nabx this year, so the new models seem to be faster with more streamlined bridles and a refined canopy shape. I've heard competitors say that the HQ Montana is the best depower open cell foil out there, the one to beat.

Regarding the bar and safeties, the only issue I've had is accidentally tripping the tophat release once which flags the kite on the rear lines. The safety is instant and easy to reset even in high winds. I've liked the safeties on these kites since at least the M IV. Work every time. The bar and chicken loop are as good as it gets IMHO. Nice texture on the bar and the grip seems to be durable. Sounds like you are referencing comments from many models ago when the improvements were many and significant with each model change.

I guess you would have to try all 3 to form your own opinion, but I love the Montanas, so much that as stable as the kites fly and as manageable as the lift is, I think they might've made it good enough to make the Apex not so necessary. I did have a lift episode last time out but was overpowered and whipped the kite through the zenith to regain kite position from a botched turn. I didn't sense that I came off the ground but the buggy tires were quiet for a second and a half. I never have that feeling that I'm about to get plucked out of the buggy or lifted with it with either the 7 or 9m.

Hey BB, in follow up to your comments, when you release the tophat is there still significant pull on the rear lines since I don't believe the kite is flagging to just one line? Also, is the tophat positioned to allow for a quick deployment (I remember it being high up)? Is there a second release that releases to your lease or is that the tophat release?

I would love to try the Montana's, but those would be my two concerns.

Thanks.

When it flags on the rear lines there is essentially no power whatsoever. You only need the leash if you eject the chicken loop safety or accidentally come unhooked, but then you are still attached to the kite in the same way. If you indeed wanted to be completely unattached to the kite, you would eject the leash. We don't run leashes on Ivanpah and only rarely have deployed the flag tophat. Wexler nor I have ever had the chicken loop come unhooked or had to eject the chicken loop safety.

The tophat is easy to reach since it is below the clam cleat trim adjuster. I'm tall but Wexler is about 5'8" and says to had no trouple reaching the trim or tophat.

Cool...thanks for the information BB.

my only experience is with the Neos. Mine are still going strong. I have flown the Neo II and it is better than the first one, better stability, better safety, more responsive. My kites have withstood everything they should have and more. If I were buying new I would buy them again but I would consider flysurfer too if I had the money.

I have the 5m Apex and 4m Access XT.

The Ozone has the better bar and fittings - everything is easy to reach and nicely put together. But, you pay for it too. For the buggy, the Access is quite a zippy kite, so if you're prepared to work it, you can be moving in 14-15 knots. 18 knots it starts to come to life. I've flown it in 25 and felt pretty good about it, but it's quick - you don't want to take you're eyes off it.

The 5m Apex is much more tame and stable. Good for me when I'm using the camera 'cos I don't have to pay much attention to the kite. Perhaps not quite as much depower as the ozone and the bar and fittings are not flash but work fine....except the trimmer strap requires long arms to reach when under power...I know a few people who complain about this. If you want speed and performance, this kite will probably bore you to death!! But if you want stability, ease of use and a dependable engine in gusty winds, then it's the right kite. Wind range for buggying starts around 12 knots and in the low 20's I'm getting pulled sideways in the buggy.

Quality wise, it does not feel as 'flash' as the Ozone but I've never had anything from HQ break or stop performing as it should nor can I think of anyone else complaining about the brand but I know of a few Ozones that have had bridles rip out - although I've never had any issues with any of mine either.

Montana's are highly thought of in Aus. It seems there's always a Montana 9.5 or 7 going zipping past me!!! Much faster than my Apex's.

I have limited experience but have an ozone flow from last year and a Montana VI 9.5. I would say that the kite, bridal, pulleys and over-all construction are both very good. Both kites have taken their share of beatings as I learn and I've been impressed at the overall durability.

I have a turbo bar on the Ozone and I would say that I slightly prefer the ozone bar and megaloop to the loop and bar on the Montana. I think the build quality seems a little higher on the ozone in that respect.

With respect to the safeties on the Montanta - no problems there in my experience. Both are easy to use and have never failed me. Easy to release onto the leash if need be and flagging out on the rear lines pretty much removes all power.

So for what it's worth, I really like the Montana and would recommend it (but there is a chance that I really don't know what I'm talking about ;-0)

I fly a pretty fair sampling of everything and recently flew a 12m Montana VII , it gave me that warm fuzzy feeling , all gusshy like , "oh this is nice this is really nice". I have flown my Apex's (5m) in severe gusty swirly 30-35mph winds (7m in slightly less) , the kite is not the limiting factor , pilot skill and nerve controll the outcome. My next series of kites will be Montana VII's.

Brian

HQ was demoing the M7's at Wildwood (you should try an make it to one and check it out). While I didn't try one, everyone I talked to who did was very impressed with them.

Snowspider is coming to our beach this weekend and he has some HQ depowers. I am sure that if ask real nice he will probably let you try one.

When we aren't on Peter Lynns we ride HQ Apexs and Ozone Access's. The build quality is top notch and more refined on the Ozone than HQ but as John you pay a premium for it. Not to say that HQ builds are sub-par, just that Ozone goes a little above and beyond. HQ's are well built, fly great and take anything you can dish out.

We've never had any issues with the Apex's beyond a bridle snap on an APex1 when they first came out.

In regards to the safeties and the hat, when it's popped it works out fine 99% of the time. But even when flagging out on both back lines she can generate enough pull to drag you if you are on ice or hard snow. Just like the earlier Ozones.

Even at the 1% that she can still drag you its a slow drag and you can just grab a single rear line and yard it in to completely flag it.

Great kites and awesome for the money IMO.

Does anyone know how the 6 series compares to the 7 or even the 5 (if I buy used)? I like the graphics more on the 5 and 6 series than the 7 but don't know what changes were made from the 5 to the 6 to the 7.