Ok so, I got my first taste of the ATB with a kite at JIBE this year and I loved it. The PII 15m did me VERY well on the hard packed sand with nice smooth winds. I want to keep on going with the ATB but here in Naples, the only places I have to ride are inland and the winds are low. Average 5-10 with 15 mph on a GOOD day. Seems to me the 15m is a bit small for these conditions. Not sure an arc is the answer for where I fly, I could be wrong though. I've had some depower foils in the past and they seemed to do well here in the buggy, but I never had the guts to try the ATB here before.

I'm going to be on the hunt for a kite soon that will offer good performance in these conditions. Something that offeres a fair amount of stability but at the same time a fair amount of lift and float. Should I be looking for a larger arc, or possibly a depower foil? Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance!

I haven't tried the new montana's yet (VII), but I ride in inland parks with light wind and that would be my choice.

Having said that though, my areas are really small and lots and lots of holes so I need something that has the most power for it's size and that I can turn faster than a kite on a bar...so the Blade IV 6.5 is my weapon of choice

mougl,
sounds like your conditions are as bad as mine at home- i am leaning towards the montana 7 as well- did get a chance to fly it at the wildwood bash and was very impressed- also have talked to adam about it and he was able to get a session in his field with 8-9 mph - sure he will pipe in as for arcs if its under 10 with any lulls i just stay home or do something else. Can use my 19 v2 in 8-9s on the beach in clean winds but even then its a lot like work.
scott

According to Sheska, she got this on the way down. I can't imagine I was much higher though. Still a BLAST!

Everyone has you on the right track here. To ride with power in those winds, you need a large foil. I see a 14m Montana doing the job well for you.

here's some input to think about.

though a large foilFB depower will provide cruising power , if the space requires alot of transitions, something quicker turning like an arc is gonna do better. in tight spots. the big foils give juice on the ride but make the transition painfully slo and a cumbersome event, not that it won;t work, but in my experience a big quick turning arc is gonna provide power and better flow esp. in the transitions.

i have been working with FS pulse(depowerfoil) and has power for light air but not so snappy on the turns and usually wish i had an arc to make more powered transitions. and again if the space is limited the arc is gonna give power thru the transitions better than the slower foils

now if the space accommodates long runs, really either would do.

then again the timing is SLOWER with the big foils and faster on the arcs. the slower speed may be friendlier to learning transitions as well.

I struggle with 5 - 12 kt winds as well.

One thing I have learned is that jumping on the 5 - 10 days just isn't going to happen.
For wide open space , clean wind and cruising my 10.8 Reactor does the job but I get overpowered easy.
I am slowly but surely finding my 18m Phanny to be my go to kite in our small parks. I am very impressed with the launches. I almost never mess up with the phanny! An 18 Phanny or 19 Venom would be affordable and just may do the job ?

What is the low end on that 18m phanny? Jumping was fun but I need to learn slides, etc before I go for jumps again.

I am riding at 5kts ( a light breeze ) on short low resistance grass with mine ! I am amazed !

That 5kts is usually clean and steady at least. I'm sure that makes a difference.

Almost the same wind I need for the Reactor and MUCH more range .

Bob can speak to this but I think the 14m Montana may get you going just a tiny bit earlier but it is a much bigger investment. + keeping with arcs helps in not switching up flying styles ?

Anybody got input on the large Phanny IIs bottom end ? Compared to say .... the 18m Phanny ?

The Phanny will seem to turn crazy slow if my 15m Charger is any example?

After flying the PII, I would like to stay with arcs. I'll go foil if I have to but I really like the way arcs fly. Thanks for the info!

Any other opinions? Carl? Adam?

Sorry dude, last week of work at the school so i've been swamped!

If you have higher winds that are gusty, i would go with a 15-19m arc. that'll get you moving with solid power. It'll also take you big and give you some good float. a small arc just won't cut it for lower winds though

If you are looking for something 8mph-15mph I'd say go with the 14m montana 7. It is a stellar low wind kite. Verty stable tons of depower and loads of lift and float. The kite is easy to loop too!

I've been flying the 14m montana and 15m matrixx back to back in low winds and I am confident that the montana is a better low wind kite. But if you want to push it into the 20s take the matrixx, it'll take you to the moon.

If you are wanting to push it after awhile in bigger winds stick with arcs. If you want a better low end go with the montana.

Pros and Cons-- Better stability in the gusties with the arcs, but they have a junky low end and take a bit longer to set up.

Montana7-- better low end, more float, and jumping in lower winds. Set up is extremely fast

It may come down to price as well if you are buying them new. don't get me wrong, I love the arcs in the high gusty winds, but i've had a bunch more jumping sessions in low winds lately considering I would never even attempt to ride in them since the arcs didn't work well below 14mph inland.


I hope this helps mougl. Let me know if you've got more questions

Also the 18m phannyII will have you riding on a hardpacked beach in 10mph, in a grass field it's going to be A LOT of work. if you wing that kite across the sky fast enough in low winds it may pick you up but not very high, also don't count on float unless you have more wind. Jumping wise I think the depower foil will give you a better low end and more hangtime.

but what phree said, in a small space it'll be better to move an arc around really fast if you can't get moving up to speed.

5-10 with the occasional 15 is typical here on a football field. That 14m ok for a football field you think? I'm also going to check out a local beach that might work for an atb at low tide. Not enough for a buggy but an atb may work with a west wind at low tide.

5-10mph and the size of a football field describes one of my areas to the T. If you decide to get that 12 or 14m Montana please let me know if it works. I've been tempted to try one recently but every depowerable I've tried (ARC, Flysurfer) has not worked out for my conditions. If the wind at my local area was constant and not so holey, maybe it would be different but I would tend to doubt it. The 5-10 in combination with the small area is the killer. Perfect for the Blade VIP 8.5 though...hehe!

Ok, more questions and please keep in mind I'll be riding inland somewhat gusty winds

What's the low end on a Charger 19 on grass for the landboard?
How do the Montanas handle gusts?
Anyone have experience with the Frenzy?
How do Flysurfers perform inland?

I know I'm asking a lot of questions but I'm planning on getting a good low wind (8-10 mph) landboard kite and I want to make sure I choose wisely

The only question I can answer is the Flysurfer performance question. I used to fly my Outlaws in gusty winds, and have flown my speeds in some inconsistent winds before. Different kites are going to handle differently. Anything with an open cell has the possibility of collapsing when the winds luff. This can result in some pretty jarring surges in power when it re-inflates. Not a huge issue, if you are prepared for it. The closed cell kites will not have that issue. They may still "surge" on you, but it will not be anywhere near as dramatic.

As long as winds are not shifting directions more than 90 degrees, the Speeds handle just fine. As long as you are actively moving, the kite will handle fine. If the wind drops and suddenly shifts in direction, you'll have some issues, but that is true of any kite.

Hope that helps.

My 19m charger I never took out in less than 14mpn on a grass field. Its a great kite, but doesn't work so well inland on grass. Its awesome for stronger winds, but doens't cut it well in the lower wind days.

montana 7 is stable for gusty days if the wind is low. if you are talking about wind above 18mph it'll start getting rough. its a fast turning kite even in low winds. you can swing that kite around very easily to help you change direction and ride upwind or downwind even in 8-9mph. since the kite is much shorter than the charger and speed 3's, it's a much much faster turning kite. I wouldn't say it had auto zentih but i'll stay where you put it. it has a ton of depower and it is very smooth to fly. Like i said before, it has an awesome low end for riding on a really bumpy grass field even in low winds..

you can be jumping no problem in 10-12mph with solid hangtime. I think it'd be great for those who are wanting to start learning their first tricks in low winds. You will also get more ride time considering you don't have to pre-inflate the kite.

Riding a 21m speed 3-3000$
Riding a 14m montana 1400$
Landing your first few board grabs on a montana-not priceless, you SAVE 1600$!