I had to mod the safety to work with my kites (I am trying a setup similar to the new PL Navigator TS bar, but this might need some more tweeking) and added the rear pigtail extensions I use for a properly tuned bar for my kites. I have yet to fly with this bar though.

First impressions... It's a nice bar. That depower system is as cool as it looks. Lots of depower range.

The Bar size can be changed (about 45cm-55cm). Good contoured grip (improves grip to avoid slipped handle passes, maybe a new source of blisters too though). Inside of horns are also padded with a smooth corner to avoid cuts to the hands from the horns if slipped during a handle pass. Says "NO" on the wrong side of the bar. Horns have molded in bungy hooks to secure packed lines onto the bar. Metal hole insert for the depowerline.

The steering leaders have extra knots for tuning. Bungy loop to secure lines. Long thin floaters cover almost the entire leader. Reinforced ends on the floats to prevent tears. Leaders have an accessory ring for their Easy Relaunch option. No OH #@%$#! handles (never used those anyway).

The Chicken loop has a swivel (to untwist center lines) and the safety line passes through it. The safetyline has the suicide ring option and built-in bungy. The chickenloop stays put for easy hooking in after unhooking. The release is large and bright and can be easily found and deployed with either hand. It can be re-engaged with one hand too. Looks like sand is easily flushed out. Chicken bone is setup so it does not slide down the loop. Would have been nice if it had a bearing swivel and set to untwist the depowerline by just pulling down on the bar.

20m + 4m extensions. Setup in a 'Y' split with single line down to the bar. Extension connections are bulky due to sleaving and kook-proof feature (these can be a source of tangles when walking the lines). This setup along with the 5th line safety is a bit of a pain to sort out or reset. Something to get used to and I'm hoping this spinning leash setup makes up for it.

Lines and bar are color coded red=left and right=grey.

Comes with a handlepass leash that is stiffened with some floaty. It has a large stiff fabric type of pin release. Safer on the hands than the metal pin type. Easy to deploy. Easy to reset.

Overall it's a well thought out bar with a very unique depower system. I will add to this review after test flights and some sessions.

Can anyone enlighten me on how the 15m and 10m Syns will perform /behave with a short line 24m "Y" setup and 45cm-55cm bar? I am hoping the kites will still work well (more about the 15m) with the shorter bar given the shorter lines are set in a "Y" config. Also, hoping the kites don't misbehave like some Chargers.

For those that have not seen this bar...
http://vimeo.com/35562308

Cool ... there's some guys DIYing this bad boy too!

I've flown the Syn's on Navigator bar - worked fine for me! FWIW

Ya, the reviews from DIY'rs contributed to my decision to buy it. I would have built my own too if I had access to materials and didn't nee it in a hurry.

Thanks, that is what I was thinking, that the medium Nav Bar is not that far off from this bar.

Use the extensions if you're in doubt ...?

wow, never looked at that bar system before. Those are some long floats!

very cool depower system...avoids the dangling rope of the cleat system's and the preset distance of the depower straps, pretty slick.

I have yet to even test fly either of my kites with this bar (that new gear curse). :sniff:

I think my safety will work since I have had plenty of time to go over it on the ground (in between rain showers), sizing it up both with and without the 15m next to it. I might ven be able to shorten it's length.

I have also had a chance to measure up the depower range of this bar and it is similar to my Zero7 bar that had 10" of trim and 12" of throw (I could only use about 9" of throw unless I let go of the bar). With the Zeeko, I can get 9" of trim and maintain 9" of throw (with the stopper). However, at it's top limit pushing out the stopper will actually power up the kite. I can get up to 12" of trim but with only 1" of throw and pushing out the stopper here will also power up the kite.


How much does the Navigator bars have?

What's that in proper measurements? :D



The red blobs on the tape are 10cm IIRC so about 50cm of throw, 40cm of trim?

I had the chance to test fly both my kites in light winds with this bar. I flew them aggressively. I was happy to see no bad behaviour from either of them before venturing out into real wind. The trim worked well. I was not happy with the mini 5th line leash mod. It snagged in the light winds and did not fully deploy. Hoping more wind will force it flat easier. The prussic knot I am using grips the front line too hard, I fear it may cut it. I am wondering if the Navigator bar splices this line in???

I also had the chance to use both my kites on the water on the same day in marginal and powered conditions. Again, no bad behaviour to report.

The trim worked well. So easy and smooth I had to check if it had trimmed or slipped. It trimmed. It was hard to gauge where the sweetspot is though. It's likely something to get used to "seeing". The 23cm (9") of throw I used is pretty much all I could reach and still keep a proper stance with my current sliding harness setup (I can still push through if I really need to). I did not see any kind of creep from the trim or stopper while riding.

The 15m seemed to have heavier steering on the shorter bar.

Since the stopper is also the adjuster you need to hold the bar while your other hand adjusts the power. Something to get used to.

I didn't get the chance to check the leash in the windier conditions since there was assistance and I intended to return to the water in short order each time. The bungee in the mini 5th line has already broken and the slack in the line made it tangle.

Sorting out the lines in this setup while rigging /packing is simple and not an issue.

very nice set up, thanks for the details.

the thru the center safety/ stopper ball is the direction of most i have seen. the old NAV stopper with the stop and ball can be easily moved while the hands are on the bar with fingers and have added it without trouble just requires a 2 line main .

zeeko looks to be a good one. still love the NEW TS NAVI. just never could get a handle on the SIZE range. are there only 2 sizes! zeeko has a regular line on the safety with bungee up high? or regular all the way up?

"With the Zeeko, I can get 9" of trim and maintain 9" of throw (with the stopper)"

Interesting, i thought would could get more than that from how it looked in the video and was thinking, 'why would they ever make that much potential depower?'
That makes sense though, kite can't take much more anyway.

Your trim straps is also your stopper. If you got your stopper near your bar, you can't depower? Even if your stopper is farther away, if you need to adjust to have less power, you actually have to pull the bar in, which will power up the kite. Seem like a safety issue in gusty situation.

Quote:

Originally posted by PHREERIDER very nice set up, thanks for the details. the thru the center safety/ stopper ball is the direction of most i have seen. the old NAV stopper with the stop and ball can be easily moved while the hands are on the bar with fingers and have added it without trouble just requires a 2 line main . zeeko looks to be a good one. still love the NEW TS NAVI. just never could get a handle on the SIZE range. are there only 2 sizes! zeeko has a regular line on the safety with bungee up high? or regular all the way up?

The Zeeko comes with a heavier (like the bridle on a Syn) mini 5th line with a built in bungy up high (just below the frontline rings). The safety is a sliding ring setup on a front line. But, it is too short to flag out either the 10 or the 15 on it's own.

Quote:

Originally posted by van Your trim straps is also your stopper. If you got your stopper near your bar, you can't depower? Even if your stopper is farther away, if you need to adjust to have less power, you actually have to pull the bar in, which will power up the kite. Seem like a safety issue in gusty situation.

So far, I am not convinced that this is a safety issue. The depower setup as it sits at full power has more potential depower than the Zero7 bar. Since it is not divided up like on other bars (i.e. trimstrap + depower line). Just keep pushing the stopper up gives you 1:1 depower (not 3:1 or whatever it is by using it as an adjuster). Right now, I think it's more a matter of something to get used to holding the bar down to trim.

The stopper is easy to push through even with it in heavier mode.

I have had some very long powered sessions on this bar and happy to report no new blisters or calluses. The grip is pretty comfy.

I have noticed some slight stopper creep in the away from me direction (more throw). Still no creep in the trim though.

The bar is heavier than some due to the solid glassed (carbon??) molded in bar ends (horns).

"I have noticed some slight stopper creep in the away from me direction (more throw). Still no creep in the trim though."

:puzzled:
just wondering how that creep could happen.
the stopper is the trimmer correct?
I can only see a few ways to move the stopper/trimmer...move it purposefully, have the bar hit it accidentally, or have the rope slip a bit (which would also change the trim and power up the kite, no?).

I think what is happening... Below the stopper the 2 lines sort of taper down to the bar this adds some friction to the stopper so it does not move as easily down toward the bar. But, above the bar the lines are more parallel and the stopper can slide more readily. The taper in the lines below the bar may actually be pushing (creeping) the stopper up??

The bar can hit the stopper really pretty hard and it wont move easily especially with the H-stopper added. You can ride with the bar resting on it.

I am getting used to the "holding the power to depower" thing this bar has.

Turns out you can also easily fine tune your sweetspot by pulling away at the opposite toggle. The increments are smaller due to your limited reach (ideal for fine tuning trim).

The 9" of trim is not enough to allow the size of sweetspot and overlap that I have become used to with my Syns. So, I needed to start using extensions (4") on each kites topend to keep those attributes.

Anyone try adding length to that 3M lead line (the one that goes through the pulley) to say maybe make it 4M? I would think that it would then allow for say 12" of depower trim range and 12" of throw(instead of 9" and 9"). Of course, you would have to add extensions on your steering lines. Anyone??

Update: I am trying to buy any Zeeko UDS bar out there, so if you have one to sell please let me know.

Found out that the depower line is 1.2 meters long. I am getting a 1.6M depower line made, which should give me another 7 inches of throw and depower. I will add 7" extensions to the steering lines. When its all said and done, will report back.

Bought the bar....it has more depower range on it than anything I have seen, without modifying. When measuring the lines at waist level, under full depower trim, the steering lines actually touch the ground!!

Cant wait to try it. Great trimming system!!

Only negative is the attachments for the 4M extension lines...they are all very bulky and heavy.

OK, after much use, I LOVE the bar but HATE the lines!!

The lines are bulky and cumbersome. They get caught in many things. The loops and knots ate the end have the opposite form for most of my kites.

I am now underway to experiment with increasing the depower range even more and then getting custom center lines to match a NEW set of steering lines.